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Is it right that gender fluid people take up women's positions?

nigahen thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

India Willoughby, who was the first woman in the world to front an all-female talk show, has lashed out at Philip Bunce - who works at Credit Suisse.

She said: As a transsexual woman with a recognised medical condition, who fights for credibility every day, who fights myths every day, who's undergone lengthy surgery, whose life was unbearable in the wrong body, I find this story an insult. 

'Transgender has become totally meaningless.'

The bank director as Philip (right) and as Pippa (left). His appearance on the Financial Times & Her-oes Champions of Women list has been met with criticism with some labeling it a 'a mockery of women'
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The bank director as Philip (right) and as Pippa (left). His appearance on the Financial Times & Her-oes Champions of Women list has been met with criticism with some labeling it a 'a mockery of women'

India Willoughby (pictured), 51, has hit out at Mr Bunce following his award. She became the first woman in the world to front and all-female talk show
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India Willoughby (pictured), 51, has hit out at Mr Bunce following his award. She became the first woman in the world to front and all-female talk show

Pippa Bunce (middle) talking to Mastercard about the 'importance of authenticity'. The bank director claims to split his time 'fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip
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Pippa Bunce (middle) talking to Mastercard about the 'importance of authenticity'. The bank director claims to split his time 'fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip




Mr Bunce claims to be gender fluid' and non-binary' and will split his time fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip - occasionally dressing in a wig and dress.

But his appearance on the Financial Times & Her-oes Champions of Women in Business list has been branded insulting' by those who think occasionally dressing as a woman is not enough to qualify.  

Mr Bunce, who worked his way up through the company as a man a company which typically pays its male employees more only started cross dressing at work four years ago.


Instead of appearing on the male equivalent list of top 100 people in business however, he has chosen to appear on the female.

This has led Kiri Tunks, co-founder of Woman's Place UK, to speak out.

In an interview with The Times, she said: This makes a mockery of women and their achievements and begs the question does Bunce simultaneously feature in top 100 male executives and if not, what were his particular achievements as a woman to merit inclusion in the female list?

While LGBT activist Kristina Harrison, who was born male but transitioned 20 years ago, labelled Mr Bunce's appearance on the list as insulting'.

Pippa Bunce (pictured) receiving an award at the British LGBT awards. The most recent award Mr Bunce accepted has been met with widespread criticism however
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Pippa Bunce (pictured) receiving an award at the British LGBT awards. The most recent award Mr Bunce accepted has been met with widespread criticism however

Mr Bunce spoke out at the time of winning the award, and wrote on LinkedIn that he was humbled' to have received it.

He said: It was a fantastic night with so many inspirational and aspirational people, groups and networks who are all making such an impressive difference, I was truly humbled to be with them all.

Having so many sincere and genuine friends made it a very special night indeed and to receive an award amongst other amazing individuals such as Sir Richard Branson, Laverne Cox, Suzie Green, John Bishop and many others was incredible.'

Credit Suisse took to Twitter to praise Mr Bunce who has been affectionately referred to as Pips' - for appearing on the list.

It wrote: Congratulations to Pips Bunce on being listed on the Top 100 Female Executives list in the 2018.'

The post, however, has attracted a considerable number of replies many of which criticise the executive for accepting the position.

Commenting on the post Gin wrote: Congratulations to the 99 women who made the top 100 and commiserations to the 101st whose place in the top 100 was stolen by a man who occasionally wears a dress.'

Pips Brice, who is also known as Philip Brice, is head of global markets technology core engineering integration components at Credit Suisse
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Pips Brice, who is also known as Philip Brice, is head of global markets technology core engineering integration components at Credit Suisse

Mr Bunce has received criticism for his acceptance of the award, but not everyone has been quite so critical.  Jason Shaw, writing on Twitter, said: This is an important distinction and a bold step in the direction of gender parity.'
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Mr Bunce has received criticism for his acceptance of the award, but not everyone has been quite so critical.  Jason Shaw, writing on Twitter, said: This is an important distinction and a bold step in the direction of gender parity.'

Pippa Bunce (pictured) said she was 'humbled' to receive the award and is 'proud of making progress towards all forms of gender diversity'
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Pippa Bunce (pictured) said she was 'humbled' to receive the award and is 'proud of making progress towards all forms of gender diversity'

The bank director as Philip (right) and as Pippa (left). Credit Suisse took to Twitter to praise their employee for the award and Mr Bunce said he was 'humbled' to receive it and that 'progress' is being made to all forms of gender diversity and equality 
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The bank director as Philip (right) and as Pippa (left). Credit Suisse took to Twitter to praise their employee for the award and Mr Bunce said he was 'humbled' to receive it and that 'progress' is being made to all forms of gender diversity and equality 

Helen Barrett thought similarly, writing: That's not a woman, it's a man who stole an award from a woman.'

Not everyone was sceptical of the businessman's appearance on the list however.

Jason Shaw, also writing on Twitter, said: This is an important distinction and a bold step in the direction of gender parity.

More and more, we are starting to understand that gender lives on a spectrum. By recognizing this gender fluid individual, the list and Credit Suisse meaningfully challenge gender bias. Thanks.'

Mr Bunce appeared in 32nd place on the list while Brenda Trenowden - the head of financial institutions for AMZ in Europe appeared first.

Jayne-Anne Gadhia, the chief executive of Virgin Money, appeared in second place while Melanie Richards, the deputy chair of KPMG, appeared in third. 

When approached for comment by The Times, Mr Bunce declined to comment but Credit Suisse said it was 'proud to be an inclusive employer'.  


So this is the article on which I'm basing my question. 

How do women feel about gender fluid people who identify as women some of the time, taking up the position which is rightfully theirs? I mean that place would have gone to a woman otherwise right?


Edited by nigahen - 5 years ago

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qwertyesque thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

How do women feel about gender fluid people who identify as women some of the time, taking up the position which is rightfully theirs? 


[/QUOTE]
This world is becoming a wierd place!
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
These non binary and whatever new terms that are emerging everyday, are such utter nonsense. Next we will see male athletes competing in women's events because on that day they woke up feeling like a woman.
nigahen thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
Kaitlin Bennett @KaitMarieox
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Twitter banned me for 12 hours hours today for saying there are two genders, claiming I engaged in targeted harassment and abusive behavior. What a time to be alive.


But twitter bans people for saying there are 2 genders.

Anyway even if its just a choice or people are born that way or whatever google deems as correct nowadays, women should stand up for their rights, right?

Women fought all these years for what's rightfully theirs and suddenly some men want to be counted as women that too only for part of the time. Those who're full time women are still ok I guess.

_Angie_ thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

This content was originally posted by: nigahen

Pippa Bunce (middle) talking to Mastercard about the 'importance of authenticity'. The bank director claims to split his time 'fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip

Mr Bunce claims to be gender fluid' and non-binary' and will split his time fifty-fifty' between Pippa and Philip - occasionally dressing in a wig and dress.

That's his idea of authenticity and his  idea of being a woman! Wearing false hair, loads of make-up, false padding makes him an authentic contender for the top 100 women in business ?   Just wondering if he  draws salary as a man-woman 50-50 besides many other ifs... ðŸ˜† Some people do have a skewed sense of gender parity.  The world is indeed getting weirder by the day.

TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
This content was originally posted by: souro

These non binary and whatever new terms that are emerging everyday, are such utter nonsense. Next we will see male athletes competing in women's events because on that day they woke up feeling like a woman.



It's already happening in some states in America 
TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
This content was originally posted by: qwertyesque

How do women feel about gender fluid people who identify as women some of the time, taking up the position which is rightfully theirs? 



This world is becoming a wierd place!
[/QUOTE]

For the past decade, I've been getting the feeling that society generally is behaving like the people in "Emperor's New Clothes"


This is an interesting article on Transgender Issue by a psychiatrist who seems to agree more or less 

He says "What started as a rare issue of a few men, has spread to include women as well as men. Even young boys and girls have begun to present themselves as opposite sex"

Edited by BettyA1 - 5 years ago
qwertyesque thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
This content was originally posted by: BettyA1


This world is becoming a wierd place!



For the past decade, I've been getting the feeling that society generally is behaving like the people in "Emperor's New Clothes"


This is an interesting article on Transgender Issue by a psychiatrist who seems to agree more or less 

He says "What started as a rare issue of a few men, has spread to include women as well as men. Even young boys and girls have begun to present themselves as opposite sex"


The sad part is AMA banned the research on this  in early 1990s. So actually this means there is no way for american research to proceed in this direction... many of the other developed countries follow the US... Indians ape the US and that leaves very few countries if at all doing any research in this area... and it will gain popularity only if it supports the popular idea... so this research can be crap... ðŸ˜Š...this post has nothing to say against this community but all i am trying to say is the research is socially biased.
Persnickity thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
Nothing wrong with people trying to be open-minded and beating age old stereotypes everyday. The world is finally moving! Man or woman - a human is a human and life is worth living in whatever way one wants to. Its the age of believing in the impossible and as long as one does not resort to cruelty and all sorts of violence why does gender fluidity even matter? Every man needs to feel like a woman and every woman needs to feel like a man. Only then understanding the other gender becomes possible. 
TotalBetty thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Twitter Bans Trans-Critical Feminist


It has come to public attention that Twitter changed its rules to ban "deadnaming and misgendering transgender individuals. For those unaware of this ideological lingo, "deadnaming means using a person's "birth name while "misgendering is using a pronoun which contradicts a person's perceived gender identity.

Twitter's woke policy came to light after Meghan Murphy, a feminist writer who used the platform to criticize transgender orthodoxy, had her account suspended on multiple occasions and was told she must delete her tweets. For Feminist Current, Murphy explained:

After dutifully deleting the tweets in question in order to gain access to my account again, I tweeted, angrily, "This is f**king bullshit, @twitter. I'm not allowed to say that men aren't women or ask questions about the notion of transgenderism at all anymore? That a multi-billion dollar company is censoring basic facts and silencing people who ask questions about this dogma is insane. This tweet went viral, racking up 20,000 likes before Twitter locked my account again on Monday morning, demanding I delete it. This time they offered no explanation at all not even a vague accusation of "hateful conduct.

Murphy concluded:

What is insane to me, though, is that while Twitter knowingly permits graphic po*nography and death threats on the platform (I have reported countless violent threats, the vast majority of which have gone unaddressed), they won't allow me to state very basic facts, such as men aren't women.' This is hardly an abhorrent thing to say, nor should it be considered hateful' to ask questions about the notion that people can change sex, or ask for explanations about transgender ideology. These are now, like it or not, public debates debates that are impacting people's lives, as legislation and policy are being imposed based on gender identity ideology.

As I've said before, it can be a harmless courtesy to use a person's preferred name and pronouns. But when rebutting aggressive ideologues as Ms. Murphy was the ability to share facts without the threat of censorship is the bare minimum that should be permitted. Hence Twitter's policy is egregious.