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-StoriesByRabindranathTagore- DiscussionThread (Page 22)

Neerjaa IF-Sizzlerz
Neerjaa
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Posts: 17773

Posted: 29 July 2015 at 10:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SayaneeH.Lecter

Moreover, I really really couldn't take the connection of Mini here .. Mini is very special to us .. her "kabuliwala o kabuliwala" stands for the innocence of humanity what melt every complexity effortlessly .. I just can't imagine such ending of little Mini .. it hurts and it hurts in deep

I agree with you Kabuliwala should have ended with original and then this new  story with new face should have come . You can not play with originals .  As someone has above mentioned the story is about poor labourers . This merger makes one confuse .  the hindi novel had two stories by Tagore but with another name . But i recognised Charulata as i have heard abouy it and always wanted to know the end . 

Got from google

In the light of the above, "Punishment" is a heart-rending story about ignorance, superstition and cultural biases against women on the one hand, and, on the other, one woman's defiance against all this.

Chandara sacrifices her own life after being falsely accused of murdering her sister-in-law because she WANTED her husband -- the false accuser -- to suffer guilt for the rest of his life. Her husband's brother, Dukhiram, had killed his own wife. His brother, Chidam, Chandara's husband, had witnessed it. Yet, when the authorities came, Chidam lied to them, accusing his wife of the murder.

Why?

On face-value, his reasoning is simple; simplistic, in fact: males are to be treasured; females are dispensable; you can marry another wife, but you cannot get another brother But, lurking beneath inane belief-system, is a series of superstition that ate away at the Bengali culture of the working class poor. A woman's love is corrupted by her sex: her genitals, humid as the Bengali climate, are capable of receiving any man, if he so wishes to possess her. Weak as she is, she is vulnerable, and with her, the family into which she is married is made vulnerable! Tagore does not directly state any of this. It comes through with his brilliant use of innuendos and metaphors.

Tagore could have ended the story here, and it would have been a blatant criticism of ignorant village life. But Rabindranath was nothing if he was not a deep and astute reader of human frailty and human strength. He infuses Chandara's story with indirect metaphorical references to sharp, breathtaking passionate love between Chandara and her husband. There are many, many subtle suggestions of Chidam's sexual addiction for Chandara. Tagore suggests that it is his own strong sexual addiction that Chandara's husband feared the most: if she can give in to him so passionately, with such complete abundance, who knows whether she will succumb to another man's strength! 

The accusation of murder thus comes almost unplanned -- suddenly -- but was it something he had always contemplated? Subconsciously?

Who is being punished? Not Chandara. In my opinion, it is her husband who brings punishment down upon himself. He loses the only woman he loved; and Chandara, by embracing death and REFUSING to see her husband again, casts him away for ever to be tormented by the fury of his own hellish guilt!



Edited by Neerjaa - 29 July 2015 at 10:42am

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sillage.Jo_MarchSayaneeH.LecterDurgaS

Neerjaa IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 11:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SayaneeH.Lecter

Neerja the novel is titled as "Nashtaneer" (Ruined Nest) .. Satyajit Ray made "Charulata" basd on it. What is its Hindi name?? 

About Punishment, it is acually "Sashti" what is bengali of punishment. It has no connection with Mini. AB adjoined the both story in his style 

 I do not remember the Hindi name as there were two short stories by Tagore . But name was changed in to Hindi as i read Aan ki Kirkiri with hindi name and while reading i just realized its Chokher Bali . As i have seen the Rituparna's movie in pieces . 
But one thing for sure translation of any literature or music , art ,somehow essence is lost . 

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Posted: 29 July 2015 at 1:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Neerjaa

Originally posted by SayaneeH.Lecter

Moreover, I really really couldn't take the connection of Mini here .. Mini is very special to us .. her "kabuliwala o kabuliwala" stands for the innocence of humanity what melt every complexity effortlessly .. I just can't imagine such ending of little Mini .. it hurts and it hurts in deep

I agree with you Kabuliwala should have ended with original and then this new  story with new face should have come . You can not play with originals .  As someone has above mentioned the story is about poor labourers . This merger makes one confuse .  the hindi novel had two stories by Tagore but with another name . But i recognised Charulata as i have heard abouy it and always wanted to know the end . 

Got from google

In the light of the above, "Punishment" is a heart-rending story about ignorance, superstition and cultural biases against women on the one hand, and, on the other, one woman's defiance against all this.

Chandara sacrifices her own life after being falsely accused of murdering her sister-in-law because she WANTED her husband -- the false accuser -- to suffer guilt for the rest of his life. Her husband's brother, Dukhiram, had killed his own wife. His brother, Chidam, Chandara's husband, had witnessed it. Yet, when the authorities came, Chidam lied to them, accusing his wife of the murder.

Why?

On face-value, his reasoning is simple; simplistic, in fact: males are to be treasured; females are dispensable; you can marry another wife, but you cannot get another brother But, lurking beneath inane belief-system, is a series of superstition that ate away at the Bengali culture of the working class poor. A woman's love is corrupted by her sex: her genitals, humid as the Bengali climate, are capable of receiving any man, if he so wishes to possess her. Weak as she is, she is vulnerable, and with her, the family into which she is married is made vulnerable! Tagore does not directly state any of this. It comes through with his brilliant use of innuendos and metaphors.

Tagore could have ended the story here, and it would have been a blatant criticism of ignorant village life. But Rabindranath was nothing if he was not a deep and astute reader of human frailty and human strength. He infuses Chandara's story with indirect metaphorical references to sharp, breathtaking passionate love between Chandara and her husband. There are many, many subtle suggestions of Chidam's sexual addiction for Chandara. Tagore suggests that it is his own strong sexual addiction that Chandara's husband feared the most: if she can give in to him so passionately, with such complete abundance, who knows whether she will succumb to another man's strength! 

The accusation of murder thus comes almost unplanned -- suddenly -- but was it something he had always contemplated? Subconsciously?

Who is being punished? Not Chandara. In my opinion, it is her husband who brings punishment down upon himself. He loses the only woman he loved; and Chandara, by embracing death and REFUSING to see her husband again, casts him away for ever to be tormented by the fury of his own hellish guilt!


Couldn't agree more to it .. the perspective on the sexual side is new to me but I am totally convinced. Another thing to put in consideration, Kobiguru has been accused by the next generation Bengali scholars and authors for being detached from the grass-root demographic. As the communist movement was influencing the art & literature at the late Tagore era, many pointed out Tagore has only focused on the upper-class, urban and educated people. 

While the accusation was party true there were some brilliant exception .. "Sashti" is special from this very perspective too. In this short story Tagore depicted the rural Bengal, poor, illiterate people devoid of the light of Bengal renaissance and How!! His word perfectly painted the beauty and unsightly side of the village life .. I wished AB thought about it and weaved story likewise .. he could simply show Chandara or any one from her family working at Mini's wedding as a part time maid or something .. dragging Mini and changing the social back drop is NOT distortion but it failed to explore the multiple layers of the story 

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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 8:49am | IP Logged
I've been looking for this for so long. Finally found it.
 Even though I don't understand the lyrics... I love it...very soothing song.Heart 


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sillage.SayaneeH.LecterDurgaSNeerjaa

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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 10:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -.Merit.-

I've been looking for this for so long. Finally found it.
 Even though I don't understand the lyrics... I love it...very soothing song.Heart 



Thank you thank you thank you for sharing it .. I love this song and this version simply touches the soul .. & here you go with the lyrics .. I found 3 translations on internet and liked this one the most

All That My Heart Wishes For
You Are The One, That You Are.
In This World, Apart From You
I Have None, Nothing I Have.

If You Are Not Happy,
Go In Search Of Happiness,
Got You In My Heart,
Nothing More Do I Desire.

Pining For You, In Your Absence
I Will Fade Myself, To Live In You.
Long Be The Day, Long Be The Night
Long Be Months And Years That Go By.

If You Do Love Someone Else, 
If Never Do You Return
Then Whatever You Covet
That You Do Get,
May All Suffering Will Be Mine. 

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Posted: 30 July 2015 at 10:37am | IP Logged
This vid doesn't have the last stanza .. hope they release the whole song too .. it was there in the episode 

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sillage.Jo_MarchNeerjaa

DurgaS IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 2:36am | IP Logged
Thanks for the continuing discussions. I am glad I am not alone. I too didn't like Mini being made the protagonist of the next story. Mini is too special and should have been left as a happy memory. Kabuliwala was done so beautifully. Mushtaq Kak and Amrita Mukherjee did a great job. Continuing the next story with the characters of Kabuliwala has hampered this beauty. The connect between stories could have been made in any other way. I also feel the real message in 'Punishment' was not properly conveyed. For the first time I am a little unhappy with Basu's version in the series. 

Btw, the actor who played Mini's husband, wasn't he the same who played Yudhisthir in 'Dharmakshetra'? 

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sillage.Jo_MarchNeerjaa

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Posted: 31 July 2015 at 2:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SayaneeH.Lecter

Originally posted by -.Merit.-

I've been looking for this for so long. Finally found it.
 Even though I don't understand the lyrics... I love it...very soothing song.Heart 



Thank you thank you thank you for sharing it .. I love this song and this version simply touches the soul .. & here you go with the lyrics .. I found 3 translations on internet and liked this one the most

All That My Heart Wishes For
You Are The One, That You Are.
In This World, Apart From You
I Have None, Nothing I Have.

If You Are Not Happy,
Go In Search Of Happiness,
Got You In My Heart,
Nothing More Do I Desire.

Pining For You, In Your Absence
I Will Fade Myself, To Live In You.
Long Be The Day, Long Be The Night
Long Be Months And Years That Go By.

If You Do Love Someone Else, 
If Never Do You Return
Then Whatever You Covet
That You Do Get,
May All Suffering Will Be Mine. 
 
Wow, thank you so so much Merit and Sayanee. This song is quite unforgettable. :-) 

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