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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 32)

Sabhayata IF-Sizzlerz
Sabhayata
Sabhayata

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Posted: 26 May 2015 at 7:50am | IP Logged
double post


Edited by Sabhayata - 26 May 2015 at 7:52am

Maverick_me Goldie
Maverick_me
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Posted: 26 May 2015 at 9:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Sabhayata

Originally posted by Adishakti

Arjuna never used Pashupata...if he had used it on day 1 the war would have been over...he didn't use bhrahmashira till ashwatthama used it..and that too only to baffle it..and immediately recalled it when vyasa asked him
He never used them even when abhimanyu was killed.. He would not use a weapon of mass destruction for personal glory or personal vengeance unlike Karna..


That itself justifies why he received them in the first place. Like Thor says in Avengers 2, you need to be worthy of it


Didn't Arjuna use Pasupata to kill Jaydratha since he went to get it from Shiva ji just before the day he killed Jaydratha

which weapons of mass destruction did Karna use?

Sabhayata,
Arjuna doesn't use Pasupata on Jayadratha . If you read previous night of Jayadrath vadh , Krishna reminds him of how he had got Pasupata from Shiva (Bhava) Krishna doesn't say 'use' Pasupata and as a dream sequence Arjuna gets Pasupata (again) from Shiva. Here Krishna was reminding Arjuna of the ultimate test of temperament Arjuna passed when he earns Pasupata , Shiva not only tests Arjuna's skills as warrior but also his perseverance and is pleased . He also certifies Arjuna as equal to himself in prowess and that there was no other warrior like Arjuna. He also forbade him not to use it on ordinary humans. 3/41 CE
Only Telugu (Andhra bharatam) mentions Pasupata being used by Arjuna. Andhra bharatam was a work of 'kavitrayam' work of three poets viz., Nanayya bhatta , Eranna, Thikanna and the date fixed is later than 1000 AD .
The CE mentions of a thunderbolt looking like arrow (Aindra) which beheaded Jayadratha and then , on Krishna's advice a series of arrows are discharged to keep Jayadraths head traveling and reach his father's lap.

PS : Can u check Debroy's translation on Jayadrath vadh? There is no miracle of eclipse..

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amritatSabhayata

CaptainSpark IF-Rockerz
CaptainSpark
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Posted: 26 May 2015 at 9:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arijit007

nice discussion, and brishti, thanks for sharing the poem. tragic hero, yeah, but, i think mata kunti's life was more tragic that karna, was she at peace in any phase of her life?
So true!
CaptainSpark IF-Rockerz
CaptainSpark
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Posted: 26 May 2015 at 9:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Sabhayata

Originally posted by CaptainSpark


2. AFAIR, the only context where Karna says he wanted to kill Arjuna is when he took Asura vrata. And it was Arjuna who first said he would kill Karna, in rangabhoomi itself. Karna has no dialogues before Rangabhoomi event. Karna wanting to kill Arjuna since gurukula times makes no sense as there is nothing which proves so.
 
He asked for B to fight Arjuna. So he wanted to fight just for fun and had to intention of killing/defeating Arjuna? Confused I ask again, is he a fool of what? No! I hate Karna but I never thought he could be such a fool...

Killing and defeating are two different things they are not the same

Arjuna defeated all Kaurava warriors in Virata parva but didn't kill anyone


I know they are not. I never said they are. I was saying that its foolish if a person wants to fight another in no intention of winning.
As for killing, its evident he did want to kill Arjuna..
 
But I am done with this debate... Smile

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Sabhayata

Sabhayata IF-Sizzlerz
Sabhayata
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Posted: 27 May 2015 at 6:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Maverick_me


Sabhayata,
Arjuna doesn't use Pasupata on Jayadratha . If you read previous night of Jayadrath vadh , Krishna reminds him of how he had got Pasupata from Shiva (Bhava) Krishna doesn't say 'use' Pasupata and as a dream sequence Arjuna gets Pasupata (again) from Shiva. Here Krishna was reminding Arjuna of the ultimate test of temperament Arjuna passed when he earns Pasupata , Shiva not only tests Arjuna's skills as warrior but also his perseverance and is pleased . He also certifies Arjuna as equal to himself in prowess and that there was no other warrior like Arjuna. He also forbade him not to use it on ordinary humans. 3/41 CE
Only Telugu (Andhra bharatam) mentions Pasupata being used by Arjuna. Andhra bharatam was a work of 'kavitrayam' work of three poets viz., Nanayya bhatta , Eranna, Thikanna and the date fixed is later than 1000 AD .
The CE mentions of a thunderbolt looking like arrow (Aindra) which beheaded Jayadratha and then , on Krishna's advice a series of arrows are discharged to keep Jayadraths head traveling and reach his father's lap.

PS : Can u check Debroy's translation on Jayadrath vadh? There is no miracle of eclipse..


Hi
Discussing with you after a long time

In CE krishna ji clearly says to Arjuna that if you have the knowledge of Pasupata today you will be able to kill Jaydratha tomorrow

He then kind of concentrates on shiva ji gets transported there or something where he gets a bow for Shiva ji and in return gets Pasupata

Arjuna clearly uses a strong divine weapon to kill Jaydratha the the name of the weapon is not mentioned

So he could have used Pasupata or not but he does use a strong divine weapon

Yes the sun thing is not in CE


Edited by Sabhayata - 27 May 2015 at 7:03am

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Maverick_me

Sabhayata IF-Sizzlerz
Sabhayata
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Posted: 27 May 2015 at 7:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by CaptainSpark

I know they are not. I never said they are. I was saying that its foolish if a person wants to fight another in no intention of winning.
As for killing, its evident he did want to kill Arjuna..
 
But I am done with this debate... Smile

How is it evident that Karna wanted to kill Arjuna since Gurukul days when all he said that he desires to fight with him?

He could have just wanted to defeat Arjuna as well

In any case in CE he says that he wants Brahamastra to be Arjuna's equal so there is no desire to kill even here


CaptainSpark IF-Rockerz
CaptainSpark
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Posted: 27 May 2015 at 7:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Sabhayata

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

I know they are not. I never said they are. I was saying that its foolish if a person wants to fight another in no intention of winning.
As for killing, its evident he did want to kill Arjuna..
 
But I am done with this debate... Smile

How is it evident that Karna wanted to kill Arjuna since Gurukul days when all he said that he desires to fight with him?

He could have just wanted to defeat Arjuna as well

In any case in CE he says that he wants Brahamastra to be Arjuna's equal so there is no desire to kill even here


Sabhayata.. can u check the previous pages.. I am not feeling like typing all that again.
And he never desired to be equal to Arjuna. Jamy posted the citation. It said he desired to fight.
 
And I know he did not want to kill A since Gurukul days but after they grew up and knew each other ofcourse. I believe it was out of jealousy and blind hatred.. but does not mean you also have to think the same.
 
Actually I have found that K is not important in the story. His being in the story does not bring in any difference except for the fact that Ps would win Kurukshetra earlier... LOL 
Chiillii Senior Member
Chiillii
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Posted: 27 May 2015 at 10:19am | IP Logged
No brishti..
Karna's biggest contribution to Jaya was, he incited panchalis disrobing and insulted her. He brings a major change to the story...I know many believe it's an interpolation but for a while let's assume it is not

 What do you think Would have happened if Panchali had not been insulted and disrobed.

Yeah war may have still happened with the same consequences, but Dury and Dushy would not have branded as obnoxious villains and hated so much.

So Karna s biggest contribution was turning an anti hero into a despicable person, who also happened to be his friend

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