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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 24)

DurgaS IF-Dazzler
DurgaS
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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:12am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by DurgaS


Hmm, I agree. Caste was a big thing those days and they used to follow rules strictly. But I am wondering when exactly Drona taught Karna? After he became Angraj or before that?  Agree about Brahmastra though, that was his aim eventually. 

There is a lot to Karna which I felt wasn't put forth in the two episodes. There were about 3 to 6 curses which all came true during the time of his death. So, I have been reading what the online sites have been saying. As per wiki, Arjuna killed Karna's son by mistake during the war that ensued post Swayamvar between the Pandavas disguised as Brahmins and the other kings attending the swayamvar. That's why Karna wanted to kill him. Also, he wanted to prove that Arjuna's claims of being the sarvoccha dhanurdhar are false. 

Talking of swayamvar reminds me about the rumoured story that Draupadi loved Karna. Found an interesting discussion about it on this page. 



Managed to catch the last few moments of the Vidur episode. Coming up next is Ved Vyas, the author of Mahabharata. 




I jst want to comment on that part in red... its nt mentioned in CE also I have read it nowhere except Karnas POV books like MJ and KW bt I firmly dnt believe that a skilled archer like Arjuna would jst kill a innocent boy mistakenly.. Its an later edit for meSmile
 
Hmm ok thanks. I too hadn't read that anywhere else before. Maybe a Karna supporter must have added that to give weightage to his purpose to kill Arjun. 

Btw, what are CE, MJ and KW? 

amritat IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:30am | IP Logged
Originally posted by DurgaS

Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by DurgaS


<font color="#000066" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">Hmm, I agree. Caste was a big thing those days and they used to follow rules strictly. But I am wondering when exactly Drona taught Karna? After he became Angraj or before that? Agree about Brahmastra though, that was his aim eventually.</font>

<font color="#000066" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">There is a lot to Karna which I felt wasn't put forth in the two episodes. There were about 3 to 6 curses which all came true during the time of his death. So, I have been reading what the online sites have been saying. <font color="#FF0000">As per wiki, Arjuna killed Karna's son by mistake during the war that ensued post Swayamvar between the Pandavas disguised as Brahmins and the other kings attending the swayamvar. </font>That's why Karna wanted to kill him. Also, he wanted to prove that Arjuna's claims of being the sarvoccha dhanurdhar are false.</font>

<font color="#000066" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">Talking of swayamvar reminds me about the rumoured story that Draupadi loved Karna. Found an interesting discussion about it on this page.</font>

<font color="#000066" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">http://www.quora.com/Mahabharata/Was-Draupadi-in-love-with-Karna</font>


<font color="#000066" face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2">Managed to catch the last few moments of the Vidur episode. Coming up next is Ved Vyas, the author of Mahabharata.</font>





<font color="#0000FF">I jst want to comment on that part in red... its nt mentioned in CE also I have read it nowhere except Karnas POV books like MJ and KW bt I firmly dnt believe that a skilled archer like Arjuna would jst kill a innocent boy mistakenly.. Its an later edit for meSmile</font>

<font face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2" color="#000066">Hmm ok thanks. I too hadn't read that anywhere else before. Maybe a Karna supporter must have added that to give weightage to his purpose to kill Arjun.</font>

<font face="Comic Sans MS, Times, serif" size="2" color="#000066">Btw, what are CE, MJ and KW?</font>




CE is Critical Edition of Mahabharat.
MJ is a novel on Karna named 'Mrityunjay' by Shivaji Sawant...
KW is another modern novel named 'Karna's Wife' by Kavita Kane...

As for that killing son thing...well that character Sudaman, Karna's son, is not there in KMG or CE...I dont know of any version that has it...Sudaman is either a folktale or Shivaji Sawant's creation...not sure..

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DurgaS

CaptainSpark IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:34am | IP Logged
Originally posted by amritat

Interesting discussions going on...

From Ramayan to Mahabharat to Rabindranath Tagore to Madhusudhan Dutta...wow...

As for Karna...well the new serial with Karna on Sony is sending chills down my spine... LOL
With another show on none other than Karna, I can clearly visualize the state of the forum... LOL
Same old debates, same old discussions n sarcastic members...same old bashing...everything will start again...
My curiosity wont let me stay away from the forum n those debates will start there as well...with some new members joining the group... LOL

I wish Siddharth Tewary had chosen some other area of interest... Cry
 
Yes man.. I really wish he did! Same old Karna LOL 
And @bold - I always say moment we say karna, atleast in front of Bengalis, comes Tagore for his ONE poemLOL People keep on proving my point, Tagore should atleast be given 50% credit for makin Karna the KARNA THE GREAT!
And Madhushan Dutta should be given almost more than half the credit for Bengalis having this urge to workship villians, and think.. they are not actually wrong.
 
 
OKay now I should stop or else people will accuse me for bashing Tagore and Dutta ROFL

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DurgaS

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:36am | IP Logged

Originally posted by DurgaS

@Brishti_Sarkar / Captain Spark - First of all congrats on your runner up award. 

Thank you so much! Smile

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

Originally posted by DurgaS

Originally posted by Brishti_Sarkar

Originally posted by DurgaS

Finally saw Karna part 2. Just as I expected, nothing unusual. It is true that Karna lied to Parasurama to become his disciple, which was very wrong, but the gurus',  Drona and Parasurama's condition to teach only to limited students was unfair. A reason why Karna had to utter false facts. But makes me wonder, weren't there any other gurus at that time who could teach dhanur vidya? And again, not everyone can be an Ekalavya, just as not everyone is comfortable doing correspondence courses. Some like Karna, need practical, classroom sessions. So, just like he kept saying, wo aur akhir kya karta? 

And he is let off easily for saying all those things against the Pandavas and Draupadi. Even if he was on Duryodhan's side, he could have stopped himself from joining his mocking pals. 

Next is Vidur, wonder for 1 or 2 episodes. 


Agree with you on the second part. But Karna DID get education from Drona. It is a wrong conception that Drona rejected Karna because he was a Suta. It is only the Brahmastra knowledge that Drona refused to give Karna because Karna proudly revealed that he wanted the Brahmastra only to kill Arjuna. Well, that is definitely not a suitable reason for you to get such knowledge. Imagine asking the principal to make you a department head just because you want to make another classmate jealous.
And regarding Parashuram, well in Dwapar Yug caste was important. And also just because he wanted knowledge (that too for killing Arjuna god knows why) lieng to a teacher is not acceptable.
 
Hmm, I agree. Caste was a big thing those days and they used to follow rules strictly. But I am wondering when exactly Drona taught Karna? After he became Angraj or before that?  Agree about Brahmastra though, that was his aim eventually. 

There is a lot to Karna which I felt wasn't put forth in the two episodes. There were about 3 to 6 curses which all came true during the time of his death. So, I have been reading what the online sites have been saying. As per wiki, Arjuna killed Karna's son by mistake during the war that ensued post Swayamvar between the Pandavas disguised as Brahmins and the other kings attending the swayamvar. That's why Karna wanted to kill him. Also, he wanted to prove that Arjuna's claims of being the sarvoccha dhanurdhar are false. 

Talking of swayamvar reminds me about the rumoured story that Draupadi loved Karna. Found an interesting discussion about it on this page. 



Managed to catch the last few moments of the Vidur episode. Coming up next is Ved Vyas, the author of Mahabharata. 


 
AFAIK, Drona taught Karna just like he taught his other disciples, mainly archery I presume. Smile But without completing his knowledge, he wanted Brahmastra from Drona which he rejected.
And about the reasons for K wanting to kill A, he wanted to kill Arjun ever since he met him at Gurukul. so the killing of son part does not actually come in I guess.. Also I feel being an Arjun fan that Arjun IMHO wasn't this careless that he killed Karna's young son. (young compared to the warriors all around) so I find that a bit hard to believe. Although I am saying this being an ardent Arjun fan and supporter. So even if we consider Arjun did kill his son, keeping my liking aside, Karna as I remember clearly mentions his reasons for killing Arjuna. And just as you said, he wanted to kill A to break that "false" title of best archer.
Funny for me. For eg, there is a bestselling author. I too have interest in writing. SO just because in some interview I saw that he/she was being called best author I suddenly cannot jump in and say I am better than him.. probably I will be in mental hospital LOL I may hate that author, but devoting my life in breaking the "false" title of certain X,Y and Z and doing all wrong things and having no interest in actual genuine learning but only aim being to demean someone else is not good according to me... Would like to know your opinions too Smile And by the way, Arjun never claimed he was sarvottam dhanurdhar. It is Drona who claimed so in Rangbhoomi at Hastina when the princes were introduced. And later on many people kept on calling him that. But never did ARJUN say "I am the best." (But he was Wink)
 
And hey, the discussion topic you mentioned with the link.. We have discussed that a hell lot in IF and seems like NOBODY (surprisingly) agrees with the Karna Draupadi angle. Atleast I haven't met anyone LOL
 

Thanks to you too for taking out the last straw in the Draupadi Karna angle. 

Also, thanks for the explanation and I do agree with you. Arjun never claimed he was the best archer. It was Drona all the way. I like your example of the beating the best author. Absurd indeed. LOL 

So with Karna being abandoned, raised with love but not as a warrior as he would have liked to, being cursed time and again and not being allowed to prove his expertise; he goes ahead and makes rash decisions, becomes friends with the wrong guy and ends up dying at the hands of a warrior without even being able to give him a good fight. Whatever he was trying to attain for whatever reason, he couldn't do it. All this leading to nothing. 

Haha! Just wanted to make my post entertaining hence such an example LOL Agree with you. This lead to nothing. He had potential, but he wasted it according to me. But the reason I don't sympathize on him is that where he could not help it, okay. It was unfortunate. Like Kunti abandoning him was not in his hands.
But where he COULD help, he did not. That is my reason for not liking this character or having any sympathy actually LOL


Edited by CaptainSpark - 23 May 2015 at 5:37am

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DurgaS

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:37am | IP Logged
1. Nowhere it is said that Karna asked for Brahmastra before completion of his studies. In fact, Arjuna was given Brahmashiras before he completed studies. Also Brahmastra was a relatively small weapon during MB times. There were better weapons than it.
2. AFAIR, the only context where Karna says he wanted to kill Arjuna is when he took Asura vrata. And it was Arjuna who first said he would kill Karna, in rangabhoomi itself. Karna has no dialogues before Rangabhoomi event. Karna wanting to kill Arjuna since gurukula times makes no sense as there is nothing which proves so.
3. Arjuna did not kill any son of Karna. That is the creaction of the most horrible FF ever written on Karna - Mrityunjaya. I have never read such a worse work on Mahabharata & don't get why it is praised often as a classic. In fact, Mrityunjaya is full of such stupis stories that are written to justify whatever Karna did. I find no sense in any of those. And honeslty, how did the author think that Arjuna who passed the bird's eye test when he was much younger & broke the fish's eye of Draupadi swayamvara competition, was careless & unskilled enough to fail in recognising a boy?

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by amritat




CE is Critical Edition of Mahabharat.
MJ is a novel on Karna named 'Mrityunjay' by Shivaji Sawant...
KW is another modern novel named 'Karna's Wife' by Kavita Kane...

As for that killing son thing...well that character Sudaman, Karna's son, is not there in KMG or CE...I dont know of any version that has it...Sudaman is either a folktale or Shivaji Sawant's creation...not sure..
 
Oh ok thanks. The only MB I read was C Rajagopalachari's Mahabharat written in English which is a shortened version of Vyasa's MB. All these different versions, interpolations has now confused me. I think I will go and read CR's MB once again in peace. 



Edited by DurgaS - 23 May 2015 at 5:56am

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amritat

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:47am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Brahmaputra

1. Nowhere it is said that Karna asked for Brahmastra before completion of his studies. In fact, Arjuna was given Brahmashiras before he completed studies. Also Brahmastra was a relatively small weapon during MB times. There were better weapons than it.
 
But Jamy, Arjuna did not ASK for it. Drona gave it to him himself. A teacher thinking you are deserving is different. But you being overconfident about yourself, and asking for a weapon like that is not good. That is I guess..the difference here. Okay, let us accept he did not ask before completing studies. But how do you prove he completed it? I mean, he asked in the middle of Gurukul so...
LIke even if you have completed class 12, you can apply for going to IIT. You cannot say give me the degree now.

2. AFAIR, the only context where Karna says he wanted to kill Arjuna is when he took Asura vrata. And it was Arjuna who first said he would kill Karna, in rangabhoomi itself. Karna has no dialogues before Rangabhoomi event. Karna wanting to kill Arjuna since gurukula times makes no sense as there is nothing which proves so.
 
He asked for B to fight Arjuna. So he wanted to fight just for fun and had to intention of killing/defeating Arjuna? Confused I ask again, is he a fool of what? No! I hate Karna but I never thought he could be such a fool... In Rangabhoomi, he jumps in all of a sudden and says "Hey that guy is not as good as me I am better and I will prove." Mind you he jumped when Drona called ARJUNA the best. I am sure if he would call Ashwi the best (considering he is an archer I took his example) then I don't think K would jump in. So he was a fool that he had no intention of killing/defeating/proving himself superior to Arjuna? Err... ConfusedConfused
Sorry if I sound harsh but,

3. Arjuna did not kill any son of Karna. That is the creaction of the most horrible FF ever written on Karna - Mrityunjaya. I have never read such a worse work on Mahabharata & don't get why it is praised often as a classic. In fact, Mrityunjaya is full of such stupis stories that are written to justify whatever Karna did. I find no sense in any of those. And honeslty, how did the author think that Arjuna who passed the bird's eye test when he was much younger & broke the fish's eye of Draupadi swayamvara competition, was careless & unskilled enough to fail in recognising a boy?


Edited by CaptainSpark - 23 May 2015 at 5:53am

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DharmaPriyaaSabhayata

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by amritat

Interesting discussions going on...

From Ramayan to Mahabharat to Rabindranath Tagore to Madhusudhan Dutta...wow...

As for Karna...well the new serial with Karna on Sony is sending chills down my spine... LOL
With another show on none other than Karna, I can clearly visualize the state of the forum... LOL
Same old debates, same old discussions n sarcastic members...same old bashing...everything will start again...
My curiosity wont let me stay away from the forum n those debates will start there as well...with some new members joining the group... LOL

I wish Siddharth Tewary had chosen some other area of interest... Cry
I dont get it what is so much there in Karna's life to be shown in a daily soap. I am not being anti Karna here. For a film, it is okay. There is enough. But for a daily show, there is nothing much written about his life in MB. He comes, says something sharp or sweet, fights & goes. This is what MB has about him. I read that the show will be based on MJ. In that case, it is better not to watch. Trust me, that book is good for nothing. I hate it to the core coz many people believe what stupidity written in it is the ultimate truth about Karna. As you said, that forum will have same old debates which have became boring for me now. How long we shall debate on same things without reaching at any point? LOL. Honeslty, there is nothing left to discuss about Karna than what did in MB forum. I guess many Karnalis will turn against the show if it shows stupid things in name of Karna's life.

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