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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 23)

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 10:29am | IP Logged
Originally posted by indianprincess

it seems like anything which doesn't suit your agenda nowadays, is an interpolation.


No actually we cannot claim nything as interpolations jst because its doesn't fit in our agenda nor can we claim the anything to be original if it fits in our agenda...Smile If we really cannot connect a thing with the original story flow then its something that one should rethink upon!

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 10:38am | IP Logged
It is true that some things have to be interpolations. BUt calling every second thing an interpolation is a bit too much and what has been the part of texts since the Sanskrit original versions..calling that interpolation is undisgestable. And modern theories like D maryring only Yudhi is correct. Wow. LOL

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 4:44pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by CaptainSpark

It is true that some things have to be interpolations. BUt calling every second thing an interpolation is a bit too much and what has been the part of texts since the Sanskrit original versions..calling that interpolation is undisgestable. And modern theories like D maryring only Yudhi is correct. Wow. LOL


If one finds every second thing sour whats wrong in pointing it out? and all of us modernbies so its evident that we will look into things with modern perspective nothing can help it! and Drau being nly Mrs Yudi is explained with some logic and its really interesting and pointing out such things and explaining it with some logic and explaining the same with some other points written in text isn't this something we call analytical study? See the thing anyone can do is just point out such things and state them to be interpolations on the basis of their knowledge and logic but one really cannot go and change the original text just because they have a claim that certain some a & bare interpolations because they don't go together...at the end of the day original text will only be the base behind the whole epic! see I am nt saying u r wrong even my granny feels the same about such theories and give a wide big lecture when Grandpa and I discuss about such thingsLOL but see nobody can stop such analysis just because for them people seem to interfere with original epic the thing one can do is just skip the things that are not good for one's stomach!


Edited by .Sanskruti - 21 May 2015 at 9:49pm

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 8:06pm | IP Logged
@Maverick - Thanks for the citation. I have quoted KMG which does not have Pashupata's name in Arjuna's dialogues. Still, CE does say Arjuna wanted to defeat Bheeshma, Drona, Kripa & Karna. Defeating Bheeshma & Karna are okay. But Kripa joined Kauravas very much later, right? (in Virata or Udyoga parva) Till then he was with Ps. Drona joined Ks in the last minute saying something that really I dont remember at this moment. So when these two events did not happen at the time of Kirataarjuneeyam, how did Arjuna know already that he would fight against Drona & Kripa? That does not make sense to me. Also both Brahmashirases have to be different, right? See, I am not saying full kirataarjuneeyam did not happen. What I mean is Shiva out of his compassion gave his weapon to Arjuna without being asked for it.

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Posted: 22 May 2015 at 7:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

It is true that some things have to be interpolations. BUt calling every second thing an interpolation is a bit too much and what has been the part of texts since the Sanskrit original versions..calling that interpolation is undisgestable. And modern theories like D maryring only Yudhi is correct. Wow. LOL


If one finds every second thing sour whats wrong in pointing it out? and all of us modernbies so its evident that we will look into things with modern perspective nothing can help it! and Drau being nly Mrs Yudi is explained with some logic and its really interesting and pointing out such things and explaining it with some logic and explaining the same with some other points written in text isn't this something we call analytical study? See the thing anyone can do is just point out such things and state them to be interpolations on the basis of their knowledge and logic but one really cannot go and change the original text just because they have a claim that certain some a & bare interpolations because they don't go together...at the end of the day original text will only be the base behind the whole epic! see I am nt saying u r wrong even my granny feels the same about such theories and give a wide big lecture when Grandpa and I discuss about such thingsLOL but see nobody can stop such analysis just because for them people seem to interfere with original epic the thing one can do is just skip the things that are not good for one's stomach!
There is nothing to argue in this.. Its just your POV and my POV... I quoted this as I felt really nice to hear you and your grandfather share such a relationship where you discuss such things. Smile These things really touch me because my grandparents are in reality my parents and I have been brought up by them.. So hearing about someone elses memories and discussions I feel nice... Smile

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 4:27am | IP Logged
Lots of pages to read. I am starting from way back. 

@Indianprincess: Thanks for clearing on the Draupadi - Karna angle. Feel a sense of peace somewhere deep inside. I never saw Star's MB. Had initially seen a few episodes but didn't find it appealing in spite of it's grand special effects. But I should have visited the forum nevertheless. Irrespective of how good or bad a show is, IF has always had interesting discussions on the related topics. So, I seem to have missed out on many of those. 


Originally posted by indianprincess

the reason  according to me..why karna is sympathised more than he deserves is coz morals and social culture of our country has degraded over a period of time. lying,stealing,killing, is totally acceptable today..something which was unacceptable say 100 yrs ago. so ppl who followed dharma are today seen as abnormal or extra shrewd ppl who had their own ulterior motives in doing so. so thats the reason p's, panchali and even krishna today get undesired hate by many.

there are ppl who believe karna did absolutely no wrong when he lied to parshuram.. he was justified coz if he didn't do so he would have been rejected education by parshuram... while lying to your guru is one of the biggest sin in indian culture.
 

For this above, shat shat pranams. Golden words up there. Perfect description of the paristithi that we live in today. Lying has become part of daily life. Jhooth bole bina khana hazam hi nahin hota logon ko. And then, they will have this ready made dialogue, 'Akhir insaanon se hi to galti hoti hai'. Sachai has become an age old fashion. 


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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 4:39am | IP Logged
@Brishti_Sarkar / Captain Spark - First of all congrats on your runner up award. 

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

Originally posted by DurgaS

Originally posted by Brishti_Sarkar

Originally posted by DurgaS

Finally saw Karna part 2. Just as I expected, nothing unusual. It is true that Karna lied to Parasurama to become his disciple, which was very wrong, but the gurus',  Drona and Parasurama's condition to teach only to limited students was unfair. A reason why Karna had to utter false facts. But makes me wonder, weren't there any other gurus at that time who could teach dhanur vidya? And again, not everyone can be an Ekalavya, just as not everyone is comfortable doing correspondence courses. Some like Karna, need practical, classroom sessions. So, just like he kept saying, wo aur akhir kya karta? 

And he is let off easily for saying all those things against the Pandavas and Draupadi. Even if he was on Duryodhan's side, he could have stopped himself from joining his mocking pals. 

Next is Vidur, wonder for 1 or 2 episodes. 


Agree with you on the second part. But Karna DID get education from Drona. It is a wrong conception that Drona rejected Karna because he was a Suta. It is only the Brahmastra knowledge that Drona refused to give Karna because Karna proudly revealed that he wanted the Brahmastra only to kill Arjuna. Well, that is definitely not a suitable reason for you to get such knowledge. Imagine asking the principal to make you a department head just because you want to make another classmate jealous.
And regarding Parashuram, well in Dwapar Yug caste was important. And also just because he wanted knowledge (that too for killing Arjuna god knows why) lieng to a teacher is not acceptable.
 
Hmm, I agree. Caste was a big thing those days and they used to follow rules strictly. But I am wondering when exactly Drona taught Karna? After he became Angraj or before that?  Agree about Brahmastra though, that was his aim eventually. 

There is a lot to Karna which I felt wasn't put forth in the two episodes. There were about 3 to 6 curses which all came true during the time of his death. So, I have been reading what the online sites have been saying. As per wiki, Arjuna killed Karna's son by mistake during the war that ensued post Swayamvar between the Pandavas disguised as Brahmins and the other kings attending the swayamvar. That's why Karna wanted to kill him. Also, he wanted to prove that Arjuna's claims of being the sarvoccha dhanurdhar are false. 

Talking of swayamvar reminds me about the rumoured story that Draupadi loved Karna. Found an interesting discussion about it on this page. 



Managed to catch the last few moments of the Vidur episode. Coming up next is Ved Vyas, the author of Mahabharata. 


 
AFAIK, Drona taught Karna just like he taught his other disciples, mainly archery I presume. Smile But without completing his knowledge, he wanted Brahmastra from Drona which he rejected.
And about the reasons for K wanting to kill A, he wanted to kill Arjun ever since he met him at Gurukul. so the killing of son part does not actually come in I guess.. Also I feel being an Arjun fan that Arjun IMHO wasn't this careless that he killed Karna's young son. (young compared to the warriors all around) so I find that a bit hard to believe. Although I am saying this being an ardent Arjun fan and supporter. So even if we consider Arjun did kill his son, keeping my liking aside, Karna as I remember clearly mentions his reasons for killing Arjuna. And just as you said, he wanted to kill A to break that "false" title of best archer.
Funny for me. For eg, there is a bestselling author. I too have interest in writing. SO just because in some interview I saw that he/she was being called best author I suddenly cannot jump in and say I am better than him.. probably I will be in mental hospital LOL I may hate that author, but devoting my life in breaking the "false" title of certain X,Y and Z and doing all wrong things and having no interest in actual genuine learning but only aim being to demean someone else is not good according to me... Would like to know your opinions too Smile And by the way, Arjun never claimed he was sarvottam dhanurdhar. It is Drona who claimed so in Rangbhoomi at Hastina when the princes were introduced. And later on many people kept on calling him that. But never did ARJUN say "I am the best." (But he was Wink)
 
And hey, the discussion topic you mentioned with the link.. We have discussed that a hell lot in IF and seems like NOBODY (surprisingly) agrees with the Karna Draupadi angle. Atleast I haven't met anyone LOL
 

Thanks to you too for taking out the last straw in the Draupadi Karna angle. 

Also, thanks for the explanation and I do agree with you. Arjun never claimed he was the best archer. It was Drona all the way. I like your example of the beating the best author. Absurd indeed. LOL 

So with Karna being abandoned, raised with love but not as a warrior as he would have liked to, being cursed time and again and not being allowed to prove his expertise; he goes ahead and makes rash decisions, becomes friends with the wrong guy and ends up dying at the hands of a warrior without even being able to give him a good fight. Whatever he was trying to attain for whatever reason, he couldn't do it. All this leading to nothing. 

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Posted: 23 May 2015 at 5:09am | IP Logged
Interesting discussions going on...

From Ramayan to Mahabharat to Rabindranath Tagore to Madhusudhan Dutta...wow...

As for Karna...well the new serial with Karna on Sony is sending chills down my spine... LOL
With another show on none other than Karna, I can clearly visualize the state of the forum... LOL
Same old debates, same old discussions n sarcastic members...same old bashing...everything will start again...
My curiosity wont let me stay away from the forum n those debates will start there as well...with some new members joining the group... LOL

I wish Siddharth Tewary had chosen some other area of interest... Cry

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