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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 22)

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 11:03am | IP Logged
SmileMy replies in italics
 
Originally posted by Brahmaputra



1. There are only two references to Karna-Parashurama story; first in Karna parva & 2nd in Shanti Parva. Karna Parva narration does not say Karna approached Parashurama only to learn Brahmastra to fight with Arjuna. Also, in his last duel with Arjuna, Karna successfully used Brahmastra thrice. Hence the Shanti Parva narration along with Karna's curses has to be an interpolation. However, Shanti Parva narration does not say Karna wanted to learn Brahmastra only to kill Arjuna. He simply says he wanted to fight with Arjuna.

Karna. one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!
 
So u basically mean to say Karna wanted a weapon like Brahmastra just to FIGHT Arjuna, not intending to defeat/kill him Shocked Is he a fool or what. And whatever, my point is that he only wanted such a weapon to fight Arjuna? Is that even a valid reason to ask for it.

In any case, there are enough evidences to prove Karna was never a student of drona.
 
Jamy I am used to this you call whatever you want interpolation whenever you want LOL I know there are many interpolations in the story but that does not mean you call anything interpolation! I feel Yaksha prashna, Durvasa incident, Drau's birth from actual FIRE as grown up, Akshaya incident etc. as interpolation for the simple reason as these seem impossible.
So I really have nothing to say about your interpolation theory. LOL


2. Arjuna did not ask Kirata Shiva to give him Pashupata. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras instead, to defeat Karna, Bhishma, Drona & Kripa.

"Arjuna said, 'O illustrious god having the bull for thy sign, if thou wilt grant me my desire, I ask of thee, O lord that fierce celestial weapon wielded by thee and called Brahmasira--that weapon of terrific prowess which destroyeth, at the end of the Yuga the entire universe--that weapon by the help of which, O god of gods, I may under thy grace, obtain victory in the terrible conflict which shall take place between myself (on one side), and Karna and Bhishma and Kripa and Drona (on the other)--that weapon by which I may consume in battle Danavas and Rakshasas and evil spirits and Pisachas and Gandharvas and Nagas--that weapon which when hurled with Mantras produceth darts by thousands and fierce-looking maces and arrows like snakes of virulent poison, and by means of which I may fight with Bhishma and Drona and Kripa and Karna of ever abusive tongue, O illustrious destroyer of the eyes of Bhaga, even this is my foremost desire, viz., that I may be able to fight with them and obtain success.'

I just said this is justifies as it is after dice hal and also they were preparing for war then. So pretty obvious that will be his reason. So even if these words are not interpolation then also it makes sense Smile Anyways this is 'interpolation' so... LOL
 
Bhava replied, 'O powerful one. I will give to thee that favourite weapon of mine called the Pasuputa. O son of Pandu, thou art capable of holding, hurling, and withdrawing it. Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it? But, O son of Pritha, this weapon should not be hurled without adequate cause; for if hurled at any foe of little might it may destroy the whole universe. In the three worlds with all their mobile and immobile creatures, there is none who is incapable of being slain by this weapon. And it may be hurled by the mind, by the eye, by words, and by the bow.'"

But, I personally consider Arjuna's words as an interpolation for the below reasons.

1. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras but he got Pashupata.

2. AFAIR, Arjuna had already been given Brahmashiras by Drona when he saved Drona from crocodile during his stay in gurukula. So why should he ask for the same weapon again?

3. There is no chance for Arjuna to be known already that he would fight against Kripa in future. Kripa switched sides much later.

4. They look odd among Shiva's words. But if we read Shiva's words alone, they look continuous.


Instead, I see it like Arjuna was afraid when he realised who he had been fighting with, but Shiva consoled him and gave him Pashupata out of his compassion, without being asked, pleased with Arjuna's warrior skills.



Edited by CaptainSpark - 20 May 2015 at 11:03am

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 6:21am | IP Logged
Arjuna never used Pashupata...if he had used it on day 1 the war would have been over...he didn't use bhrahmashira till ashwatthama used it..and that too only to baffle it..and immediately recalled it when vyasa asked him
He never used them even when abhimanyu was killed.. He would not use a weapon of mass destruction for personal glory or personal vengeance unlike Karna..


That itself justifies why he received them in the first place. Like Thor says in Avengers 2, you need to be worthy of it


Edited by Adishakti - 21 May 2015 at 6:21am

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 8:23am | IP Logged

Arjuna asking for Brahmasira and getting Pasupata in return  , is an interpolation ?!

 
really?! ConfusedErmm
Lets see the verse
 
3/41/7&8 CE
 
Arjuna Uvacha
Bhagavanndadasi Chenmahyam Pritya Vrishdhwaja
kaamaye divyamastram tadghoram paasupatam Prabho 


Yadtad Brahmasiro naam raudram bheemaparakramam
Yugante daarune prapte kritsnam samharate jagat

Arjuna is asking  Bhagavan Vrishadhwaja Shankara to grant him" Pasupata of terrible prowess which has 'Brahmasira' for its name and famous for its capacity to bring an end to this world .
 
Pasupata that which is named  Brahmasira
 
Bhagavan uvacha:
Dadani tEstram dayitamaham paasupatam mahat
Samartho dharne mokshe samhaare chaapi Pandava

I will give you that cherished weapon of mine along with the knowledge of withholding unleashing and withdrawing it as well O Pandava

Shiva says , he is granting Arjuna's wishes because the latter deserves it and that there's no other warrior like Arjuna!! Smile (CE 3/40/52 Shauryanena dhritya cha kshatriyo nasti te samah) not because Arjuna was afraid since he didn't know , who he's fighting with Wacko
Of course Shiva is Aashutosha - the compassionate one who can be pleased easily ...
 


 
 
 

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 9:13am | IP Logged
Thank you for the confirmation Maverick Big smile

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 9:26am | IP Logged
it seems like anything which doesn't suit your agenda nowadays, is an interpolation.

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 9:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by indianprincess

it seems like anything which doesn't suit your agenda nowadays, is an interpolation.
ROFL

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 10:12am | IP Logged
Brahamasira is known as Pasupatastra??Confused
Thanks for the citations

Drona had already given the BrahmaShira Astra to Arjuna in Adi Parva:

The son of Bharadwaja then addressed the illustrious and mighty car-warrior Arjuna and said, 'Accept, O thou of mighty arms, this very superior and irresistible weapon called Brahmasira with the methods of hurling and recalling it. Thou must not, however, ever use it against any human foe, for if hurled at any foe endued with inferior energy, it might burn the whole universe.

so y will he ask the same astra again??

 nd moreover when Lord Shiva gives him that astra he says that no god or mortal humans know about it,

(Shiva telling this to Arjun about Pashupatastra)

Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it?


so how does Drona know about it??..Confused


So my conclusions are

  • Arjuna did not save Drona from crocodile neither Drona gave him the astra being impressed or he saved his Guru but got no astra in return!
  • If Arjuna saved Drona then he did not go to Lord Shiva(there was no need to) nor Lord Shiva did not give him the Pasupatastra being impressed!
  • And if both the above events are true then both Brhmashiras have to be diffrn weapons!

can anyone clear this? ...Confused



Edited by .Sanskruti - 21 May 2015 at 10:17pm

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Posted: 21 May 2015 at 10:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by CaptainSpark

Okay. I got it now. So just chuck out the parts about your bold part LOL


Yeah I didSmile nd I m glad u understood it made no senseLOL

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