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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 21)

misanthropist. IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 1:14am | IP Logged
Originally posted by panchaali




my taste and thought process will never match with people like these..

students of 10th and 12th also won't say such nonsense...

why would I waste my time and energy on them !!!!





@Panchu dii.. wht u mean by this that such nonsense nly 10th /12th students can sayCry I m in 12th nd I will never call them as terrorists believe meCry

BTW I got promoted to 12thBig smile

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Brahmaputra

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 6:39am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by Urmila11


Should I give citations for the well-known fact that Karna spent almost whole life in HP? Should I give citations for well-known fact that HP was NOT his kingdom? If these are well-known facts, then we should accept the fact that he, despite of being a King, did spend maximum time of his life in another place. That means he was absent from Anga. Who took care of Anga, Champa and Malini prajas during his absence? Can you give citation to prove that Karna gave his prajas' responsibility on someone before enjoying life in friend's kingdom? And the way he wanted to give away everything to a person who would show Arjun (in battle filed, I posted citations in previous thread) does not create any respect in me for his image. If Yudhishthir's praja staking is a sin then Karna's wish to donate his prajas was also a sin IMHO. Hope I'm clear now.


I jst want to know y u feel Karna  did not even care for Anga kingdom I think u made post sounding sumthing like this in previous thread as well...?Confused I think its nt mentioned nywhere atleast nt till I have finished CEOuch nd when did he donate his prajaShocked I m yet to come to it so no comment on it BTW I did nt say nything on Yudi I really respect him as a person nd am inclined towards his mind a lot...Smile
I think he did not care for Karna kingdom because he spent most of the time in HP with Duryodhan.. This is not the sign of a good king actually... We know nothing about his administration etc.. So how did he care for Karna kingdom? It is not mentioned anywhere but it is just common sense... Semanti is saying that because Karna spent all his life in HP and also I would like to add if u devote ur life to killing another rival or prove urself better than him then you will not have time to care for your kingdom and with great power comes responsibility... Smile


So these r jst conclusions driven nd u say it right we don't know abt administration powers of anyone! ...
waise In Sabha Parva during their digvijay when Bhim takes over champa its said that he marched ahead defeating Karna so can I say that Karna as there for his territory when it needed him?Smile
and there is no mention of Karna 'having complete fun' at HP he is mentioned in strategies and planning bt he does go missing in some cases...
also I will add ki if staying 24*7 in ur own kingdom and looking after it makes u think its ur pocket-money that u can gamble away it was better Karna wasn't thereTongue

and about Karna and Arjuna its the way you look at it see if u want to stand first in the class u won't really pick up an average student nd compete him, bt it would put u in direct competition with with the one who comes first! It would have been stupid if Karna would have challenged other Ps or even the Kurus to prove him as the archer... the rivalry betn them gets intensified after DH I don't really find it such serious till then though they bth throw verbal assaults at each other.. also both reciprocated their rivalry equally look If Karna asked Brahamastra for Killing Arjuna, Arjuna too asked for Pashupata astra citing a reason to kill Karna! and I don't personally think that Karna or Arjuna 24*7 thought only of killing each other they both had their other job to do as well... nd yeah I agree at the point that even b4 the two actually met or b4 their first encounter in MB its written that Karnas rivalry was nly with Arjuna CE also says this bt here again I would mention a thing that Karna is referred as a Suta even b4 he is adopted by Radha or Adiratha don't it sound strange? seems like Vyasa believed that people already know this storyLOL[This actually I got to know after reading an analytical study on Karna...the sanskrit version readers can confirm or correct meSmile I miss JamyCry]

PS...that thing in red I know it makes no senseLOL bringing other characters in middle to justify my character or put arops on other character is not my favrt Cadbury silk its cadbury fruit nd nuts which I dnt like though it might seem to be tasty for others nd I really dnt have problems with what others eat..Embarrassed nd thats the thing I edited to add spiceEvil Smile  nd  I know I sound terribly foolish there in that red crap
ROFLROFL

PPS. Believe me I dnt hate any Ps
 


 I cant see colours for a minor problem in my PC so I don't know which part u marked in red...
 
Firstly can you prove your point where you said Arjuna wanted Pashupatastra to kill Karna...I am not saying you are wrong but I want citations to gain knowledge as I was unaware of this fact...Smile
By the way apart from that PAshupatastra incident is afrer VH and Exile. In fact, after a lot of things. Karna's Brahmastra incident was in GURUKUL by the way.
 
Now coming back to point about Karna being a good/bad king. I would like to say that if my facts cannot prove Karna a bad king, then yours cannot prove the counter either... Actually this is not even important as if it would be there would be heavy hints and citations in the epic to suggest for either of the options..Good or bad king. But seems like we botha re only basing our opinion/conclusion on assumption from reading the text.
Addition what I was trying to say is that Karna I feel wasn't a good king as Maybe I have overlooked the citaitons you said. And also, he wasn't a part of which which of Dury's crimes against Ps? Again, I just want to know what I don't already know... so if you could help me by saying which incidents you meant..
as through out the epic I have seen Karna with Dury be it in good or bad situations.. so its hard to believe Karna was in his kingdom. And only protecting your kingdom is not enough by the way.. Smile
 
Now finally coming to the gambling part. Not every emperor who stayed in their kingdom and administered it well gambled it away. Yudhishthir was the only one and why did u pull this in? There are many many many mor ekings in epic who did not gamble their empire.
Jst coz Yudhi did its better Karna doesn't stay in Anga? Nobody was telling him to be like Yudhi or any gambler for that matter. I was just saying he is not a good king.
I think you are being delusional with Yudhi here too by the way..but not getting into that. lets keep the debate to the point.

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amritat

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 8:10am | IP Logged
RemovedLOL

Edited by Brahmaputra - 20 May 2015 at 8:18am
Brahmaputra IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 8:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by Brahmaputra

Was stalking. not intended to comment.LOL


LOL LOL sometimes I think u take wisest decisionsLOL

Edit: there is something in above post for u to dissectTongue


Always Kabhi Kabhi I do that.LOL

Where did you find vyasa uncle going crazy calling karna a suta even before Karna met the Suta? Let me know the parva at least. I will check & say.Tongue But I will be replying late as I am busy reading for exams.

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misanthropist.Sabhayata

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 8:18am | IP Logged


1. There are only two references to Karna-Parashurama story; first in Karna parva & 2nd in Shanti Parva. Karna Parva narration does not say Karna approached Parashurama only to learn Brahmastra to fight with Arjuna. Also, in his last duel with Arjuna, Karna successfully used Brahmastra thrice. Hence the Shanti Parva narration along with Karna's curses has to be an interpolation. However, Shanti Parva narration does not say Karna wanted to learn Brahmastra only to kill Arjuna. He simply says he wanted to fight with Arjuna.

Karna. one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!

In any case, there are enough evidences to prove Karna was never a student of drona.


2. Arjuna did not ask Kirata Shiva to give him Pashupata. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras instead, to defeat Karna, Bhishma, Drona & Kripa.

"Arjuna said, 'O illustrious god having the bull for thy sign, if thou wilt grant me my desire, I ask of thee, O lord that fierce celestial weapon wielded by thee and called Brahmasira--that weapon of terrific prowess which destroyeth, at the end of the Yuga the entire universe--that weapon by the help of which, O god of gods, I may under thy grace, obtain victory in the terrible conflict which shall take place between myself (on one side), and Karna and Bhishma and Kripa and Drona (on the other)--that weapon by which I may consume in battle Danavas and Rakshasas and evil spirits and Pisachas and Gandharvas and Nagas--that weapon which when hurled with Mantras produceth darts by thousands and fierce-looking maces and arrows like snakes of virulent poison, and by means of which I may fight with Bhishma and Drona and Kripa and Karna of ever abusive tongue, O illustrious destroyer of the eyes of Bhaga, even this is my foremost desire, viz., that I may be able to fight with them and obtain success.'

Bhava replied, 'O powerful one. I will give to thee that favourite weapon of mine called the Pasuputa. O son of Pandu, thou art capable of holding, hurling, and withdrawing it. Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it? But, O son of Pritha, this weapon should not be hurled without adequate cause; for if hurled at any foe of little might it may destroy the whole universe. In the three worlds with all their mobile and immobile creatures, there is none who is incapable of being slain by this weapon. And it may be hurled by the mind, by the eye, by words, and by the bow.'"

But, I personally consider Arjuna's words as an interpolation for the below reasons.

1. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras but he got Pashupata.

2. AFAIR, Arjuna had already been given Brahmashiras by Drona when he saved Drona from crocodile during his stay in gurukula. So why should he ask for the same weapon again?

3. There is no chance for Arjuna to be known already that he would fight against Kripa in future. Kripa switched sides much later.

4. They look odd among Shiva's words. But if we read Shiva's words alone, they look continuous.


Instead, I see it like Arjuna was afraid when he realised who he had been fighting with, but Shiva consoled him and gave him Pashupata out of his compassion, without being asked, pleased with Arjuna's warrior skills.

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misanthropist.Sabhayata

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 9:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by CaptainSpark

 I cant see colours for a minor problem in my PC so I don't know which part u marked in red...
 

Now finally coming to the gambling part. Not every emperor who stayed in their kingdom and administered it well gambled it away. Yudhishthir was the only one and why did u pull this in? There are many many many mor ekings in epic who did not gamble their empire.
Jst coz Yudhi did its better Karna doesn't stay in Anga? Nobody was telling him to be like Yudhi or any gambler for that matter. I was just saying he is not a good king.
I think you are being delusional with Yudhi here too by the way..but not getting into that. lets keep the debate to the point.


Brishti this is what I posted in red now I m posting in bold hopefully this is visibleTongue If no then lemme quote it as well:

also I will add ki if staying 24*7 in ur own kingdom and looking after it makes u think its ur pocket-money that u can gamble away it was better Karna wasn't there


 I know its crap no need to quote this post give me a answer againEmbarrassed nd now ur other question Why I put that here and lets stick to debate thats what I too want firstly I am nt the first one to pull Yudi in betn nd talk abt their sins and gambling in debate of Karna being the kingLOL jst check few of the previous posts and I know when I pull other characters in betn in that way when the debate topic is different and I know I sound foolish nd idiot when I bring such point in my answer...Tongue now when you know what was actually marked in red jst re-read the that particular line and the PS thing I posted..may u get itErmm IF no jst a harmless advice leave it...Smile

BTW that protecting the kingdom thing I posted to tell Karna was there for his kingdom when it needed him nd I m in no mood to stretch the debate on Karna's tenure as King as u rightly say each of us will find many citations supporting our beliefs and taking us to a different conclusion also bcoz I m going inactive due to testsLOL




Edited by .Sanskruti - 20 May 2015 at 9:38am

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Sabhayata

misanthropist. IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 9:31am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Brahmaputra

Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by Brahmaputra

Was stalking. not intended to comment.LOL


LOL LOL sometimes I think u take wisest decisionsLOL

Edit: there is something in above post for u to dissectTongue


Always Kabhi Kabhi I do that.LOL

Where did you find vyasa uncle going crazy calling karna a suta even before Karna met the Suta? Let me know the parva at least. I will check & say.Tongue But I will be replying late as I am busy reading for exams.


nt really MB bt an analytical study on blogspot I read it many months ago when I was dissecting that Karnas curses bt still I will check the my lappys history dnt worry bt in next week now even I got exams will do it later BTW I remember MaGrath too telling something similar I think he gave reference as well jst check that PDF if u have
BTW I guess Its Adiparva read whole till Karnas birth nd adoption na na..Embarrassed BTW do it after exams not nowApprove abhi studyStar
nd all d bst rock ur examThumbs Up


Edited by .Sanskruti - 20 May 2015 at 9:44am

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Posted: 20 May 2015 at 10:53am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by CaptainSpark

 I cant see colours for a minor problem in my PC so I don't know which part u marked in red...
 

Now finally coming to the gambling part. Not every emperor who stayed in their kingdom and administered it well gambled it away. Yudhishthir was the only one and why did u pull this in? There are many many many mor ekings in epic who did not gamble their empire.
Jst coz Yudhi did its better Karna doesn't stay in Anga? Nobody was telling him to be like Yudhi or any gambler for that matter. I was just saying he is not a good king.
I think you are being delusional with Yudhi here too by the way..but not getting into that. lets keep the debate to the point.


Brishti this is what I posted in red now I m posting in bold hopefully this is visibleTongue If no then lemme quote it as well:

also I will add ki if staying 24*7 in ur own kingdom and looking after it makes u think its ur pocket-money that u can gamble away it was better Karna wasn't there


 I know its crap no need to quote this post give me a answer againEmbarrassed nd now ur other question Why I put that here and lets stick to debate thats what I too want firstly I am nt the first one to pull Yudi in betn nd talk abt their sins and gambling in debate of Karna being the kingLOL jst check few of the previous posts and I know when I pull other characters in betn in that way when the debate topic is different and I know I sound foolish nd idiot when I bring such point in my answer...Tongue now when you know what was actually marked in red jst re-read the that particular line and the PS thing I posted..may u get itErmm IF no jst a harmless advice leave it...Smile

BTW that protecting the kingdom thing I posted to tell Karna was there for his kingdom when it needed him nd I m in no mood to stretch the debate on Karna's tenure as King as u rightly say each of us will find many citations supporting our beliefs and taking us to a different conclusion also bcoz I m going inactive due to testsLOL


Okay. I got it now. So just chuck out the parts about your bold part LOL

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