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Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 (Page 18)

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Urmila11


Should I give citations for the well-known fact that Karna spent almost whole life in HP? Should I give citations for well-known fact that HP was NOT his kingdom? If these are well-known facts, then we should accept the fact that he, despite of being a King, did spend maximum time of his life in another place. That means he was absent from Anga. Who took care of Anga, Champa and Malini prajas during his absence? Can you give citation to prove that Karna gave his prajas' responsibility on someone before enjoying life in friend's kingdom? And the way he wanted to give away everything to a person who would show Arjun (in battle filed, I posted citations in previous thread) does not create any respect in me for his image. If Yudhishthir's praja staking is a sin then Karna's wish to donate his prajas was also a sin IMHO. Hope I'm clear now.


I jst want to know y u feel Karna  did not even care for Anga kingdom I think u made post sounding sumthing like this in previous thread as well...?Confused I think its nt mentioned nywhere atleast nt till I have finished CEOuch nd when did he donate his prajaShocked I m yet to come to it so no comment on it BTW I did nt say nything on Yudi I really respect him as a person nd am inclined towards his mind a lot...Smile


Edited by .Sanskruti - 16 May 2015 at 9:03am

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:05am | IP Logged
Originally posted by panchaali

Originally posted by Urmila11

Originally posted by Brishti_Sarkar

Originally posted by panchaali

Originally posted by Arijit007

which dialogues, my dear panchali?

You could have taught yourself like Eklavya did

[and lose your thumb]LOL

you could gone to your mother and Duryadhan would have forgiven you

[so that people remembers you as Bivishan of Dwapar] LOL
Vibhishan atleast chose right and most important he proudly said that in front of Ravaan that he does not support. Not like Karna who promises the rival's mom that I will not hamr your other sons when that is a huge loss for his "best friend". Considering Karna HAD the ability to defeat all Pandavs (atleast the twins) he cheated Duryodhan by promising Kunti.
He is worse than Vibhishan.


I can't see Vibhishan's insult, I'm a huge Vibhishan fan because he knew how to respect women. He did not even support his elder brother for abducting a woman. How can one compare Vibhishan with a person who assaulted a woman in a public court?

well I am raised hearing the phrase "Grihashatru Vibhishan".   so I hate the character Vibhishan from the core of my heart... he is the example of cowardice...

This phrase is used on people those who do not stand by their own  when they are in danger... 

For Vibhishan the rivals were rivals, yet he supported them

for Karna his rivals were his own brothers, situation was very different for him
yet he vowed to kill Arjun...because of Duryadhan...

his beggar mother said him not to kill any of the pandavs and come with her, when she the find the right advantage...

She asked him  those when Karna never returns any beggar without giving any alms... 

Bristi haven't you read high secondary books how could you talk such non sense..

Karna and VibhishanConfused well I have nothing to say except LOL this is hilarious and too much...



 
Firstly Panchaali Di can you please clear what you meant by high secondary books? If you name them I would be able to say if I read them or not.
Addition to that on a general note I would generally like to say that the problem nowadays is most of us prefer to read books written about the epic or based on the epic rather than the actual Vyasa text. That is why we are nto aware of what actually happened.
 
Now to answer you,
 
@BOLD - Can you please prove this with citation? Well, first of all Kunti NEVER begged his "oh-so-danveer" son for anyone's life. Neither did she instruct not to kill any Pandavas. What Kunti said was out of desperation and love for her son (Seriously I wonder what was the need to go to him. Ughh!!!). She was only requesting, desperately for KArna to come to THEIR side. She did nto say don't kill my sons. What she might have felt is that, she would not like to see Karna and Arjuna fight with each other knowing both are her sons. But what she said is :
 
 Kunti said, 'Thou art Kunti's son, and not Radha's. Nor is Adhiratha thy father. Thou, O Karna, art not born in the Suta order. Believe what I say. Thou wert brought forth by me while a maiden. I held thee first in my womb. O son, thou wert born in the palace of Kuntiraja. O Karna, that divine Surya who blazeth forth in light and maketh everything visible, O foremost of all wielders of weapons, begat thee upon me. O irresistible one, thou, O son, wert brought forth by me in my father's abode, decked with (natural) ear-rings and accoutred in a (natural) coat of mail, and blazing forth in beauty. That thou, without knowing thy brothers, shouldst, therefore, from ignorance, wait upon Dhritarashtra's son, is not proper. It is improper in thee especially, O son. The gratification of one's father and one's mother, who is the sole displayer of affection (for her child), hath, O son, in the matter of ascertaining the duties of men, been declared to be the highest of all duties. Acquired formerly by Arjuna, the prosperity of Yudhishthira hath, from avarice, been wrested by wicked persons. Snatching it back from Dhritarashtra's sons, do thou enjoy that prosperity. Let the Kurus behold today the union of Karna and Arjuna. Beholding thee and thy brother united together in bonds of brotherly love, let those wicked persons bow down unto ye. Let Karna and Arjuna be named in the same breath as Rama and Janardana. If you two are united together, what cannot be accomplished in the world? O Karna, surrounded by thy brothers, thou wilt, without doubt, blaze forth like Brahma Himself, surrounded by the gods on the platform of a great sacrifice. Endued with every virtue, thou art the first of all my relations. Let not the epithet Suta's son attach to thee. Thou art a Partha, endued with great energy.'"
"Vaisampayana said (After Kunti had said this), Karna heard an affectionate voice issued out of the solar circle. Coming from a great distance, that voice was uttered by Surya himself with paternal affection. (And it said)--The words said by Pritha are true. O Karna, act according to the words of thy mother. O tiger among men, great good will result to thee if thou fully followest those words.'
 
After which, this is what Karna said :
 
For the sake of Dhritarashtra's son, I shall fight against thy sons to the best of my strength and might. I must not, however, abandon kindness and the conduct that becometh the good. Thy words, therefore, however beneficial cannot be obeyed by me now. This thy solicitation to me will not yet be fruitless. Except Arjuna, thy other sons, Yudhishthira, Bhima, and the twins, though capable of being withstood by me in tight and capable also of being slain, shall not yet be slain by me. It is with Arjuna alone, among all the combatants of Yudhishthira, that I will fight. Slaying Arjuna in battle, I shall achieve great merit, or slain by Savyasachin, I shall be covered with glory. O famous lady, the number of thy sons will never be less than five. Five it will always be,--either with me, or with Arjuna, and myself slain.'
 
So its Karna who said that and not Kunti. I don't understand why people keep on blaming Kunti. And you just called her a beggar Panchaali di and she happens to be my favourite character after Arjuna so please support your title.
 
And lastly, some things are nonsense for some people other things for others right? It is all about our thinking. So neither am I speaking nonsense, neither you are. I find Karna jaap nonsense but I really cannot say anything to stop them. Can I? (UGhhh!!!!)
 
@Underlined - Because of Duryodhan? Really? But Karna always wanted to prove HIMSELF better than Arjuna. How is he wanting to kill Arjuna for Duryodhan? Even if you would say Bheem it would make some sense.. Confused
And lastly on the long run Vibhishan supported justice. Don't compare with Karna Smile

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:12am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Sanskruti

Originally posted by Urmila11


Should I give citations for the well-known fact that Karna spent almost whole life in HP? Should I give citations for well-known fact that HP was NOT his kingdom? If these are well-known facts, then we should accept the fact that he, despite of being a King, did spend maximum time of his life in another place. That means he was absent from Anga. Who took care of Anga, Champa and Malini prajas during his absence? Can you give citation to prove that Karna gave his prajas' responsibility on someone before enjoying life in friend's kingdom? And the way he wanted to give away everything to a person who would show Arjun (in battle filed, I posted citations in previous thread) does not create any respect in me for his image. If Yudhishthir's praja staking is a sin then Karna's wish to donate his prajas was also a sin IMHO. Hope I'm clear now.


I jst want to know y u feel Karna  did not even care for Anga kingdom I think u made post sounding sumthing like this in previous thread as well...?Confused I think its nt mentioned nywhere atleast nt till I have finished CEOuch nd when did he donate his prajaShocked I m yet to come to it so no comment on it BTW I did nt say nything on Yudi I really respect him as a person nd am inclined towards his mind a lot...Smile
I think he did not care for Karna kingdom because he spent most of the time in HP with Duryodhan.. This is not the sign of a good king actually... We know nothing about his administration etc.. So how did he care for Karna kingdom? It is not mentioned anywhere but it is just common sense... Semanti is saying that because Karna spent all his life in HP and also I would like to add if u devote ur life to killing another rival or prove urself better than him then you will not have time to care for your kingdom and with great power comes responsibility... Smile

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by panchaali

Originally posted by The.Lannister

Originally posted by panchaali

Originally posted by The.Lannister

@Parshuram & Drona: I have never really understood why a guru MUST accept a person as his student just because the student wants to study under him. Same thing with the weapons too. Karna thinks he deserves to know Bramhastra vidya. Karna thinks he deserves a teacher like Parshuam. But if the teacher doesn't agree why is he wrong? (wrt Chitragupta chastising Parshuram & Drona for not doing the duty of a teacher)The teachers have got all their weapons after a lot of study, hard work & dedication. Aren't they within their rights to refuse to give them to a person whom they consider unfit? Does it make them less noble? Yes, probably. Does it make them wrong & give the pupil a right to deceive the guru? Absolutely not!



sorry I have to disagree...

the teachers did not find Karna unfit they find his caste was unfit...that is the difference

[in fact Parsuram loved Karna dearly for his merit...which means he had everything to get the Brahmastra vidya] 

in olden days teachers used to choose a student based on their merits but later the system became corrupted...

and I do not see any flaw in Chirtagupta's verdict...any sane person will do the same...

P.S:- you are a Tyrion Lannister fan I thought you like Karna, coz Tyrion has many similarities with Karna...Smile

Drona did teach him. And Parshuram had vowed not to teach the entire Kshatriya caste. It was nothing against Karna personally. 

A teacher's duty is to share knowledge to everyone..that's why a person is called teacher...if he chooses a student based on his caste and refuses to teach another based on his caste.. person is definitely NOT at all an example of good teacher..

Drona teach Karna but refused give him brahmastra thinking about Arjun...that is also NOT a sign of good teacher...  


I love Tyrion, Jaime AND Tywin too. And sorry but I do not think Karna is in any way similar to Tyrion. 

I found similarity between Tyrion and Karna because both had to struggle a lot...they did not get what they deserve... anyway these are my thoughts...and I saw people around me common admirer of Tyrion and Karna who too believe the same... but yes not saying you too have to have to think the same...

Sorry Panchaali di I again have to disagree. Firstly it is not about Arjuna X, Y or  Z. It is about the seeker. Karna was asking for the Brahmastra only to kill SOMEONE. That is not the right way of thinking. A student should not be given a Brahmastra..the most powerful weapon of then just for personal grudge and vengeance (god knows why!!!) It is not about Arjuna. If Karna would say he wanted to kill Duryodhan, then also Drona would not give him.  I know Drona loved Arjuna more than other students. He was the favourite pupil. But that does not come in here.
Why are people hellbent on proving people did not have trust on Arjuna!!! Kunti begged for his life, Drona refused Karna for him, what the hell?? Arjuna has the capability to defeat Karna himself so ther eis no need of all this and Drona and Kunti both knew this.

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:21am | IP Logged
They did the most awful Krishna centric episode in the history of mankind, yesterday. Let's talk about that please.

For me the high (not very) and low points were both to do with Panchali


High - 1) She said others may consider you God, but I call you my best friend. And he responded that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to himBig smile


Low - 1) VH. First of all plagiarized from POI. They have a telepathic hang out session right in the middle of it. And Panchali doesn't know whether to get angry or be calm?Shocked Krishna asks her to get angry?Shocked
2) The talk Keshav gave her is a a xerox copy of the talk Panchali gives Yudhi in the actual epic.Again another bunch of people who cannot acknowledge a woman could have been THAT great.
3) At the end when everyone was reciting like good little second graders what they learned from Krishna, Panchali said she learned that one could only gamble with oneself?Shocked Wasn't that HER OWN ARGUMENT, to begin with? But the look on Yudhi's face was pricelessLOL


Edited by AnuMP - 16 May 2015 at 9:24am

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:30am | IP Logged
Woah what an episode!! Can u tell us more about what happened in the episode?? Cant wait to know. Did he actually have any arops??

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:33am | IP Logged
Brishti, this summarizes it wellLOL

Originally posted by Sadhana_pr

After almost skipping the entire series, I finally watched the finale of DK- Keshav!
I was reminded of a corporate meeting. Where your boss is in a self-loathing spree and all the employees are trying to register their token protest with "Oh no sir, you were not wrong, you don't need to clarify etc...". 
Something similar happened in the last episode. At regular intervals you had random characters mouth-"Oh, you don't need to go through this". When Dury and Karna did this, I seriously had to let out aLOL.

So basically Keshav had to explain why he in spite of being an Incarnate allowed the story to happen the way it is. He out of his own goodwill proceeded to explain the eclipse during Jayadrath vadh, and the Dron lie and Dury's broken thigh. 

The exciting part was the last round of this trial. When each character had to stand up as in a classroom and spell out the moral of his/her story. Some of them made sense, some appeared to be rambling as if just out of a napLOL.

And yes, the part where Dushy was explaining to Panchali how Keshav was there during the VH was epic in all senses of the wordLOL. Panchali's expression was classic-Ya, of all the people you should be telling me that! And I, the one who supposedly invoked him through my ardent prayers obviously had no clue,right?

Oh and obviously there was no question of punishment for Keshav. But he did pronounce a sentence for himself-that he would always be available for us. Assuming 'us' is represented by the people present in the court-from petulant kids to self righteous kings to victimised son of the sun to reluctant warriors to assertive queens-- I would agree, it would be quite a bit of a punishment dealing with them and their problems.!! 


Edited by AnuMP - 16 May 2015 at 9:34am

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Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:48am | IP Logged
Whatever it may be, I loved the GoYu moments. Eyelocks, dialogues, namaskars, pranaams everything Embarrassed I'm still in a GoYu hangover LOL They are my favourite two, their bonding always reminds me this famous verse, "Yato Krishnah Tato Dharmah, Yato Dharmah Tato Krishnah" Day Dreaming

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