Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 - Page 25

Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Brishti_Sarkar


Vibhishan atleast chose right and most important he proudly said that in front of Ravaan that he does not support. Not like Karna who promises the rival's mom that I will not hamr your other sons when that is a huge loss for his "best friend". Considering Karna HAD the ability to defeat all Pandavs (atleast the twins) he cheated Duryodhan by promising Kunti.
He is worse than Vibhishan.


Vibhishan and Karna are very different because their basic action was very different

Vibhishan clearly choose a side but Karna never did

He tried to do things for both the sides

He gave a promise to Kunti to save her four sons which he did

But he also refused to join his hands with pandvas and choose to fight for Dury

He killed Gato to save Kaurav army

He helped in disarming Abhimanyu

He became a general during last two days and killed many warriors of pandvas army

He tried to kill Arjuna

Vibhishan never tried Or even killed any one from Rama's army but Karna did kill many warriors of Pandav army

Here is the difference

What we can say is that Karna could have done more for Dury he could have killed YBNS when he had a chance but didnt or atleast captured Yudi and made him a prisoner and won the war for Dury.Yes he could have done more than what he actually did but then he had his feet in two boats and hence couldn't

Though from Dury's POV one can say he did betray Dury because he could have won the war for him which he didn't.


Edited by Sabhayata - 8 years ago
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Adishakti


Arjuna never used Pashupata...if he had used it on day 1 the war would have been over...he didn't use bhrahmashira till ashwatthama used it..and that too only to baffle it..and immediately recalled it when vyasa asked him
He never used them even when abhimanyu was killed.. He would not use a weapon of mass destruction for personal glory or personal vengeance unlike Karna..


That itself justifies why he received them in the first place. Like Thor says in Avengers 2, you need to be worthy of it

Didn't Arjuna use Pasupata to kill Jaydratha since he went to get it from Shiva ji just before the day he killed Jaydratha

which weapons of mass destruction did Karna use?
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by DurgaS



So with Karna being abandoned, raised with love but not as a warrior as he would have liked to, being cursed time and again and not being allowed to prove his expertise; he goes ahead and makes rash decisions, becomes friends with the wrong guy and ends up dying at the hands of a warrior without even being able to give him a good fight. Whatever he was trying to attain for whatever reason, he couldn't do it. All this leading to nothing. 


Bold-hmm have you read Karna and Arjuna's last duel?
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by CaptainSpark



2. AFAIR, the only context where Karna says he wanted to kill Arjuna is when he took Asura vrata. And it was Arjuna who first said he would kill Karna, in rangabhoomi itself. Karna has no dialogues before Rangabhoomi event. Karna wanting to kill Arjuna since gurukula times makes no sense as there is nothing which proves so.
 
He asked for B to fight Arjuna. So he wanted to fight just for fun and had to intention of killing/defeating Arjuna? 😕 I ask again, is he a fool of what? No! I hate Karna but I never thought he could be such a fool...

Killing and defeating are two different things they are not the same

Arjuna defeated all Kaurava warriors in Virata parva but didn't kill anyone


Posted: 8 years ago
double post
Edited by Sabhayata - 8 years ago
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Sabhayata



Didn't Arjuna use Pasupata to kill Jaydratha since he went to get it from Shiva ji just before the day he killed Jaydratha

which weapons of mass destruction did Karna use?

Sabhayata,
Arjuna doesn't use Pasupata on Jayadratha . If you read previous night of Jayadrath vadh , Krishna reminds him of how he had got Pasupata from Shiva (Bhava) Krishna doesn't say 'use' Pasupata and as a dream sequence Arjuna gets Pasupata (again) from Shiva. Here Krishna was reminding Arjuna of the ultimate test of temperament Arjuna passed when he earns Pasupata , Shiva not only tests Arjuna's skills as warrior but also his perseverance and is pleased . He also certifies Arjuna as equal to himself in prowess and that there was no other warrior like Arjuna. He also forbade him not to use it on ordinary humans. 3/41 CE
Only Telugu (Andhra bharatam) mentions Pasupata being used by Arjuna. Andhra bharatam was a work of 'kavitrayam' work of three poets viz., Nanayya bhatta , Eranna, Thikanna and the date fixed is later than 1000 AD .
The CE mentions of a thunderbolt looking like arrow (Aindra) which beheaded Jayadratha and then , on Krishna's advice a series of arrows are discharged to keep Jayadraths head traveling and reach his father's lap.

PS : Can u check Debroy's translation on Jayadrath vadh? There is no miracle of eclipse..
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Arijit007


nice discussion, and brishti, thanks for sharing the poem. tragic hero, yeah, but, i think mata kunti's life was more tragic that karna, was she at peace in any phase of her life?
So true!
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Sabhayata



Killing and defeating are two different things they are not the same

Arjuna defeated all Kaurava warriors in Virata parva but didn't kill anyone


I know they are not. I never said they are. I was saying that its foolish if a person wants to fight another in no intention of winning.
As for killing, its evident he did want to kill Arjuna..
 
But I am done with this debate... 😊
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by Maverick_me



Sabhayata,
Arjuna doesn't use Pasupata on Jayadratha . If you read previous night of Jayadrath vadh , Krishna reminds him of how he had got Pasupata from Shiva (Bhava) Krishna doesn't say 'use' Pasupata and as a dream sequence Arjuna gets Pasupata (again) from Shiva. Here Krishna was reminding Arjuna of the ultimate test of temperament Arjuna passed when he earns Pasupata , Shiva not only tests Arjuna's skills as warrior but also his perseverance and is pleased . He also certifies Arjuna as equal to himself in prowess and that there was no other warrior like Arjuna. He also forbade him not to use it on ordinary humans. 3/41 CE
Only Telugu (Andhra bharatam) mentions Pasupata being used by Arjuna. Andhra bharatam was a work of 'kavitrayam' work of three poets viz., Nanayya bhatta , Eranna, Thikanna and the date fixed is later than 1000 AD .
The CE mentions of a thunderbolt looking like arrow (Aindra) which beheaded Jayadratha and then , on Krishna's advice a series of arrows are discharged to keep Jayadraths head traveling and reach his father's lap.

PS : Can u check Debroy's translation on Jayadrath vadh? There is no miracle of eclipse..


Hi
Discussing with you after a long time

In CE krishna ji clearly says to Arjuna that if you have the knowledge of Pasupata today you will be able to kill Jaydratha tomorrow

He then kind of concentrates on shiva ji gets transported there or something where he gets a bow for Shiva ji and in return gets Pasupata

Arjuna clearly uses a strong divine weapon to kill Jaydratha the the name of the weapon is not mentioned

So he could have used Pasupata or not but he does use a strong divine weapon

Yes the sun thing is not in CE
Edited by Sabhayata - 8 years ago
Posted: 8 years ago
Originally posted by CaptainSpark


I know they are not. I never said they are. I was saying that its foolish if a person wants to fight another in no intention of winning.
As for killing, its evident he did want to kill Arjuna..
 
But I am done with this debate... 😊

How is it evident that Karna wanted to kill Arjuna since Gurukul days when all he said that he desires to fight with him?

He could have just wanted to defeat Arjuna as well

In any case in CE he says that he wants Brahamastra to be Arjuna's equal so there is no desire to kill even here


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