Dharamkshetra discussion thread 2 - Page 17

"Arjuna said, 'O illustrious god having the bull for thy sign, if thou wilt grant me my desire, I ask of thee, O lord that fierce celestial weapon wielded by thee and called Brahmasira--that weapon of terrific prowess which destroyeth, at the end of the Yuga the entire universe--that weapon by the help of which, O god of gods, I may under thy grace, obtain victory in the terrible conflict which shall take place between myself (on one side), and Karna and Bhishma and Kripa and Drona (on the other)--that weapon by which I may consume in battle Danavas and Rakshasas and evil spirits and Pisachas and Gandharvas and Nagas--that weapon which when hurled with Mantras produceth darts by thousands and fierce-looking maces and arrows like snakes of virulent poison, and by means of which I may fight with Bhishma and Drona and Kripa and Karna of ever abusive tongue, O illustrious destroyer of the eyes of Bhaga, even this is my foremost desire, viz., that I may be able to fight with them and obtain success.'

Bhava replied, 'O powerful one. I will give to thee that favourite weapon of mine called the Pasuputa. O son of Pandu, thou art capable of holding, hurling, and withdrawing it. Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it? But, O son of Pritha, this weapon should not be hurled without adequate cause; for if hurled at any foe of little might it may destroy the whole universe. In the three worlds with all their mobile and immobile creatures, there is none who is incapable of being slain by this weapon. And it may be hurled by the mind, by the eye, by words, and by the bow.'"

But, I personally consider Arjuna's words as an interpolation for the below reasons.

1. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras but he got Pashupata.

2. AFAIR, Arjuna had already been given Brahmashiras by Drona when he saved Drona from crocodile during his stay in gurukula. So why should he ask for the same weapon again?

3. There is no chance for Arjuna to be known already that he would fight against Kripa in future. Kripa switched sides much later.

4. They look odd among Shiva's words. But if we read Shiva's words alone, they look continuous.

Instead, I see it like Arjuna was afraid when he realised who he had been fighting with, but Shiva consoled him and gave him Pashupata out of his compassion, without being asked, pleased with Arjuna's warrior skills.

Originally posted by: Brahmaputra

1. There are only two references to Karna-Parashurama story; first in Karna parva & 2nd in Shanti Parva. Karna Parva narration does not say Karna approached Parashurama only to learn Brahmastra to fight with Arjuna. Also, in his last duel with Arjuna, Karna successfully used Brahmastra thrice. Hence the Shanti Parva narration along with Karna's curses has to be an interpolation. However, Shanti Parva narration does not say Karna wanted to learn Brahmastra only to kill Arjuna. He simply says he wanted to fight with Arjuna.

Karna. one day approached Drona in private and said these words unto him, 'I desire to be acquainted with the Brahma weapon, with all its mantras and the power of withdrawing it, for I desire to fight Arjuna. Without doubt, the affection thou bearest to every one of thy pupils is equal to what thou bearest to thy own son. I pray that all the masters of the science of weapons may, through thy grace, regard me as one accomplished in weapons!

 

So u basically mean to say Karna wanted a weapon like Brahmastra just to FIGHT Arjuna, not intending to defeat/kill him 😲 Is he a fool or what. And whatever, my point is that he only wanted such a weapon to fight Arjuna? Is that even a valid reason to ask for it.

In any case, there are enough evidences to prove Karna was never a student of drona.

 

Jamy I am used to this you call whatever you want interpolation whenever you want 😆 I know there are many interpolations in the story but that does not mean you call anything interpolation! I feel Yaksha prashna, Durvasa incident, Drau's birth from actual FIRE as grown up, Akshaya incident etc. as interpolation for the simple reason as these seem impossible.

So I really have nothing to say about your interpolation theory. 😆

2. Arjuna did not ask Kirata Shiva to give him Pashupata. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras instead, to defeat Karna, Bhishma, Drona & Kripa.

"Arjuna said, 'O illustrious god having the bull for thy sign, if thou wilt grant me my desire, I ask of thee, O lord that fierce celestial weapon wielded by thee and called Brahmasira--that weapon of terrific prowess which destroyeth, at the end of the Yuga the entire universe--that weapon by the help of which, O god of gods, I may under thy grace, obtain victory in the terrible conflict which shall take place between myself (on one side), and Karna and Bhishma and Kripa and Drona (on the other)--that weapon by which I may consume in battle Danavas and Rakshasas and evil spirits and Pisachas and Gandharvas and Nagas--that weapon which when hurled with Mantras produceth darts by thousands and fierce-looking maces and arrows like snakes of virulent poison, and by means of which I may fight with Bhishma and Drona and Kripa and Karna of ever abusive tongue, O illustrious destroyer of the eyes of Bhaga, even this is my foremost desire, viz., that I may be able to fight with them and obtain success.'

I just said this is justifies as it is after dice hal and also they were preparing for war then. So pretty obvious that will be his reason. So even if these words are not interpolation then also it makes sense 😊 Anyways this is 'interpolation' so... 😆

 

Bhava replied, 'O powerful one. I will give to thee that favourite weapon of mine called the Pasuputa. O son of Pandu, thou art capable of holding, hurling, and withdrawing it. Neither the chief himself of the gods, nor Yama, nor the king of the Yakshas, nor Varuna, nor Vayu, knoweth it. How could men know anything of it? But, O son of Pritha, this weapon should not be hurled without adequate cause; for if hurled at any foe of little might it may destroy the whole universe. In the three worlds with all their mobile and immobile creatures, there is none who is incapable of being slain by this weapon. And it may be hurled by the mind, by the eye, by words, and by the bow.'"

But, I personally consider Arjuna's words as an interpolation for the below reasons.

1. Arjuna asked for Brahmashiras but he got Pashupata.

2. AFAIR, Arjuna had already been given Brahmashiras by Drona when he saved Drona from crocodile during his stay in gurukula. So why should he ask for the same weapon again?

3. There is no chance for Arjuna to be known already that he would fight against Kripa in future. Kripa switched sides much later.

4. They look odd among Shiva's words. But if we read Shiva's words alone, they look continuous.

Instead, I see it like Arjuna was afraid when he realised who he had been fighting with, but Shiva consoled him and gave him Pashupata out of his compassion, without being asked, pleased with Arjuna's warrior skills.