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The ramblings of a restless mind (Page 8)

Angel-likeDevil IF-Stunnerz
Angel-likeDevil
Angel-likeDevil

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:17pm | IP Logged
Desigal, I get what you are saying... But this entire string of events are just o sad.. From running over to seeking plea from HC. Not just this case..any criminal case is just saddening. One suffers at the expense of another's foolishness, recklessness, insanity, cruelty. Commission of crime and then punishment aren't so simple..they entail so much emotional turmoil. It feels unfortunate for both parties. Isn't it unfortunate that some of your fellow humans aren't humane enough or lose their humaneness?

I guess punishment is just deter other people or check against further unlawful activities by the erroneous.. Otherwise, it serves no purpose for the bereaved and also for the erring unless they meditate/reflect over their actions and improve their inner selves during their penitentiary life.

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sharif_lafungi IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:43pm | IP Logged
salmam didnt acknowledge his mistakes...he did charity for time like this only...his charity is speaking only...
he didnt do anything for the victims...nor for any roadsider...
wat u r saying is understandable..but how long can we support a person when his wrongs are uncountable??

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abby_girl30 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:47pm | IP Logged
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Edited by abby_girl30 - 07 May 2015 at 12:13am
gilmores IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by desigal90

Oh yeah, absolutely. I know that. But that first decision was not the illegal one. That is a completely legal decision. You're an adult, you can drink. Society doesn't discourage anyone from making that first decision. No one thinks twice of it.
Adults drink, yet they know some may make some very stupid decisions after. Adults still do it. 

But yes, the responsible thing is to designate a driver or someone to take you home before you start. I absolutely agree with that.
However, I wouldn't say that failing to do the responsible thing should result in someone being punished for murder...that's where things become a little hazy in my opinion.

I think that's what I"m trying to say.
That we say you should take responsibility, but does that still take away from the fact that it was still an accident. Yes it resulted in a life lost. But accidents do often result in lost lives. I believe the punishment should reflect that intent. Which is completely a theoretical POV at this point, not practical.

To make in a nutshell, intoxicated drinking seems like irresponsible decision UNINTENTIONALLY causing a loss of life. Not too different than a sober adult driving a car and getting reckless and speeding and causing an accident. Both result from irresponsibility, not intent to kill. Yet I don't think someone who speeds will go to jail for 5 years, right?

To me...it just seems intent matters in such a case. I know the law says otherwise. 
I'm just debating philosophically here. In such cases, making the accused who committed the crime pay for the victim's children, throughout until college and changing their circumstances would have seemed like the more beneficial thing to do.

No it's not illegal to drink and there's absolutely nothing wrong with drinking either...BUT there is definitely such a thing as drinking/getting high responsibly and there are many people who do this. It's really not that hard.Like someone said, they've had friends say : I don't think I can get home tonight..plenty of folks do this..or wait a while before driving, or perhaps plan from the beginning only that you're gonna get drunk today so take a taxi or have a friend be DD..there are plenty of ways to be responsible...you don't lose your senses 1 drink in.. It takes a few drinks to get drunk depending on what you're having and your tolerance level. Society doesn't discourage drinking but it certainly doesn't encourage irresponsible drinking. 

My point is most people know that drinking can impair judgment...so, when they choose to drink, they should take responsibility for whatever stupid decisions they make afterwards. It's not an uninformed decision they're making, especially as adults (Salman was 36-38!!!!...on top of that he didn't even have a valid license --he wasn't supposed to be driving sober or drunk). The problem is, you can't excuse crimes committed when drunk as just impaired judgement...then everyone would just say oh I wasn't thinking straight, I was high for every crime and get away with it. 

Manslaughter is not the same as murder...people drinking and driving, who end up killing someone unintentionally, are charged with vehicular manslaughter.  Murder punishment is much worse for a reason because like you said intent  most definitely matters. There's different degrees of vehicular manslaughter...there's manslaughter while intoxicated, then gross negligent manslaughter while intoxicated. People do get different sentences based on the crime. 

Like other's have already said...compensation cannot be in exchange of punishment. 

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Star_girl IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:05am | IP Logged
Lol what nonsense. How is your friend relevant here? Is she even from India? Salman is a murderer and should be in jail and his long-overdue blackbuck case should be done right now including perjury charges. Indian Judiciary system is problematic because of these rich losers like Salman who order their lawyers to drag cases forever. His lawyers thought let's just drag the case till the end of time and people will forget about it lol. Just as it happens in every other high-profile case here. For once, there is a proper punishment whether late or whatever and here are so-called well meaning people crying. So annoying. -_- "impaired judgement"? Lmao what? Phir tou those Delhi rapists should also get off scot-free because they were drunk too. Killing someone while drunk driving is culpable homicide and he's charged for the same. 
Whatever happened to Saif's case anyway? Shouldn't he be in jail too? 


Edited by Star_girl - 07 May 2015 at 12:06am

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desigal90 IF-Stunnerz
desigal90
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Posts: 37468

Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Star_girl

Lol what nonsense. How is your friend relevant here? Is she even from India? Salman is a murderer and should be in jail and his long-overdue blackbuck case should be done right now including perjury charges. Indian Judiciary system is problematic because of these rich losers like Salman who order their lawyers to drag cases forever. His lawyers thought let's just drag the case till the end of time and people will forget about it lol. Just as it happens in every other high-profile case here. For once, there is a proper punishment whether late or whatever and here are so-called well meaning people crying. So annoying. -_- "impaired judgement"? Lmao what? Phir tou those Delhi rapists should also get off scot-free because they were drunk too. Killing someone while drunk driving is culpable homicide and he's charged for the same. 
Whatever happened to Saif's case anyway? Shouldn't he be in jail too? 

Since you can't partake in a discussion that so far was going very nicely in a respectful manner, I don't think I need to respond to your questions or "silly" post either. 

Anyways. 

For the rest of ya'll, great debate everyone! Keep it up and hopefully we'll continue the healthy discussion Thumbs Up





Edited by desigal90 - 07 May 2015 at 12:26am

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desigal90 IF-Stunnerz
desigal90
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by IAmLuvBolly

Desigal and Kitkataha, this is becoming a very interesting discussion. You guys are making some very interesting points. 

It's good to have a good discussion on IF now and then without the trolling and sarcastic digs Smile


Originally posted by chocolover89


Manslaughter is not the same as murder...people drinking and driving, who end up killing someone unintentionally, are charged with vehicular manslaughter.  Murder punishment is much worse for a reason because like you said intent  most definitely matters. There's different degrees of vehicular manslaughter...there's manslaughter while intoxicated, then gross negligent manslaughter while intoxicated. People do get different sentences based on the crime. 

Like other's have already said...compensation cannot be in exchange of punishment. 

Oh yeah, I never denied that it was irresponsible. And of course, most of us here weren't saying you can be exempted based on drinking. Just wondering what alternate means of punishment could be employed in such a case. And like most of the folks on here mentioned, monetary compensation just puts the rich at a huge advantage. The poor couldn't possibly afford that, so it would make no sense for the rich to just pay up while the poor man compensates with jail time. 

Originally posted by Angel-likeDevil

Desigal, I get what you are saying... But this entire string of events are just o sad.. From running over to seeking plea from HC. Not just this case..any criminal case is just saddening. One suffers at the expense of another's foolishness, recklessness, insanity, cruelty. Commission of crime and then punishment aren't so simple..they entail so much emotional turmoil. It feels unfortunate for both parties. Isn't it unfortunate that some of your fellow humans aren't humane enough or lose their humaneness? 

I guess punishment is just deter other people or check against further unlawful activities by the erroneous.. Otherwise, it serves no purpose for the bereaved and also for the erring unless they meditate/reflect over their actions and improve their inner selves during their penitentiary life.
Yeah deterring others from similar acts was a factor that I never really paid much attention to. Hopefully seeing such a high profile case others who indulge in irresponsible acts like drinking and driving will realize that it has serious consequences. Problem is, most people never think it'll happen to them. Especially when intoxicated, most people tend to think they're in full control and senses. 
I've seen the worst of the irresponsible acts with texting and driving though. Or even shuffling through the phone to put on the next song. One moment is all it takes.


Edited by desigal90 - 07 May 2015 at 12:35am
charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
charminggenie
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Posted: 07 May 2015 at 12:45am | IP Logged
@DH- Interesting debate here, guess most have made valid points just considering Salman ,the intent  and irresponsible behaviour are relevant because unlike other cases that people are citing around Salman had a police constable on duty who warned him repeatedly about drunk driving, the speed of the vehicle , so he knew about the possible fate . He not only disregarded the law but a figure of authority and risked lives. Hence he should be made an example with the harshest punishment for this very reason that not only was he reminded of the consequences of his actions before the event but he chose to ignore them all. His case is even more worse because not only did he accept his mistake , he mislead the court, planted a witness and so many offences which clearly shows his intent was to of repentance.So unlike your friend he didn't even own up to the mistake/crime.
 This idea that he should be exempted or given some other form of punishment just will create differentiation based on economics. Rich people will keep funding NGOs , charity front and will become more reckless because they would have this safety net.Your classmate had money, resources to cover up for her mistakes, a poor person committing the same crime won't have the luxury.

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