Jodha Akbar 6th May 2015..Pics Pg-2..LONG analysis Pg-1 + Note Pg-12.. - Page 9

Radhika, very balanced POV







Edited by mishtidoi - 8 years ago

This content was originally posted by: RadhikaS0

res ..))

Unres

Hi Abhay

plz don't feel so disheartened. This is a show and some drama is necessary to stretch tracks. :) I agree i was also expecting more from Jalal but later, I realised both JJ were being natural. That is how we would react too in their place.

Charu and Devki put my thoughts into beautiful words in yesterday's thread. Thanks ladies :)

I know the CVs have messed up the characters of JJ and HB. But given these reel characters, we have to think of the situation from a neutral perspective and not as JJ fans or PS-RT fans or anti HB viewers. 

Jodha

She resisted the pressure for a really long time. But I can tell you that it's really difficult to be practical and think rationally when a mother figure is dying. And everyone blames you so much for it that you start believing you are responsible for her slipping into death. 

I won't say Jodha is a doormat or a crying machine in this track. Yes, the tears have been incessant. But she has been strong, introspective and has finally taken the plunge (to conversion) as a last resort, when it seems time is running out for her mother-in-law.

She is not happy about it. Apart from the sadness of having to give up on her Kanha, she is well aware that she is going against Jalal as both a husband and as the emperor and that he will be majorly disillusioned with her decision. She is aware that Jalal had forewarned her about pressure being brought upon her and how she must remain strong and stick to their decision, not to convert. She knows he has gone to war to fight for the right of his people to follow a faith of their choice. 

Yes, she is aware of all this. And yes, we all want to see her as a strong, emancipated woman. The trouble with being a strong person is that no one cares to ask how you are doing. People just assume you can do anything and be none the worse for it. 

It is easy to wonder why Jodha cannot be "strong" and "stick to her decision not to convert". But just think of the tremendous psychological, mental and emotional blackmail and pressure brought upon her by the inmates of the palace. For all intents and purposes, she is all alone, save for an inconsequential support like Moti. 

If the MM dies because Jodha didn't convert? 

Then what?

What a furore that would create in the empire! It's not only a question of saving 1 life but also the question of saving an important life - that of the queen mother. Jalal himself may then be upset with her because he had entrusted his mother to her before going to war.

Why didn't Jodha talk to Jalal about Hamida's tantrums and her decision to convert?

Naturally, she cannot upset Jalal with domestic squabbles when he is at war and needs to focus there completely. (She had even kept her pregnancy hidden from him when he was going to war. She had tried to hide her illness when he was about to go to war.) 

She knows that he will never agree to her conversion but, as she sees it, that is the only solution to save Hamida's life. 

Men and women differ in how they think. And people's reactions too differ to the decisions of men and women. It is known that in India, if the son takes a "wrong" decision, families can overlook it but will blame his wife for supporting him, saying that the guy may not have known/understood the consequences, but she, being a woman and responsible for the welfare of the family, should have "known better."

Thats, its experienced by all women or wives in the eastern culture, not only in India, but also in other eastern countries.

Here too, no one blames Jalal as such for either the war or for supporting right to faith, but are quick to condemn Jodha for the same causes. What a dichotomy!

The tragedy of being Jodha is that all these months, she suffered alone, putting up with social ostracization, isolation and unimaginable amount of ghrina and blame for simply supporting Jalal's decisions. It was ironic to see yesterday how all these women, who were ostensibly against war and Jalal's decisions,   were fawning over him and feeling proud of his victory in the war.

Which leads me to believe that Hamida actually thought that Jalal would lose the war against the more powerful (in her opinion) Shah-i-Iran. She may have got hyper thinking Jalal was going for a war that he would surely lose and she wanted to avoid this "loss of face" by compromising on ethics and sovereignty. 

It is easy to say "be strong" to someone else because we are not carrying the cross that they are. Sometimes, it is worthwhile remembering that a person who is having to take a decision then and there, using their limited perspective, is doing the best she can under the circumstances. 

In my view, Jodha is being as strong as she can in her position because she has taken the tough decision to save the MM over standing by her vow to her husband. Because in our Indian society, then or now, the mother is held over and above husband and children too, leave alone the kingdom. 

The irony is that just a moment turned the tide against Jodha. If only she had waited half a day more, Jalal would have returned and all would have been well. Well, almost - because I don't think in that case, Hamida would have ever stopped being hostile to her for not having listened to her order for conversion. 

Now Jodha is at a cross-roads. Her husband feels terribly let-down by her. Her in-laws have calmly brushed off any involvement in the matter and are pretending to be as innocent as babes lost in the woods. 

Should Jodha have told Jalal about Hamida's blackmail?

No, cause every explaination its useless in every sides.

No. Nothing sounds cheaper to me than complaining about someone's behavior behind their back. Esp complaining about your mother-in-law to your husband. 

Jalal already knew that his mother had tried to convert Jodha once. He knows that his mother has been off food for some reason. He should have known 2+2 = 4 , without Jodha having to tell him explicitly. He should know that his wife of some 25 odd years would not go against his wishes just like that, unless some strong reason was there. 

Under general circumstances, he keeps saying that there must be a strong reason behind Jodha's actions but he forgets that when something major happens. 

No, I don't blame Jodha for buckling under pressure. I don't blame her for keeping it from her husband. And I don't think she is weak. 

Your explanation about Jodha attitude.

I write it some time before, that we should see the courage and strength of Jodha with a different perspective. 

Jalal

Like I said, he should have understood that his mother had brought pressure upon Jodha to convert by refusing to eat food. 

When I saw the dark, stormy face of Jalal, as he entered the palace, and the way he purposefully strode towards his mother's chamber to talk to her, I thought he understood everything and would make his mother apologize to Jodha for forcing her to convert. But this didn't happen. 

Well, I understood the makers are going to milk this drama as long as they can and stretch it beyond endurance. 

But it may be that Jalal is being the TE and trying to wriggle a confession out of his mother, though I doubt it. There is no way to know ever when Jalal is being TE. :(

The only explanation that seems plausible to me is that he is deeply anguished by Jodha's betrayal, as he sees it. Here, he is separating her from others and seeing only her actions in isolation. 

WHich many of us do most times. I can recall many times when my son does something wrong and says he did it because "everyone (of his friends) was doing it". And I tell him that I don't care about the others but only about what he does and he should have remembered what I told him instead of giving weightage to what others told him. 

This ^^^ example is only to illustrate a point. 

We have different standards of judgement for the ones we love truly and for ones we don't care about. Jalal is able to brush off Ruq's antics because he doesn't care for her or what she does. But he cannot bear Jodha going wrong even slightly because it matters tremendously to him how she is. 

If he trusts anyone at all completely, it is her. He made her the MEH for the simple reason that he takes her to be his shadow, his own reflection or alter ego. In his eyes, there is no difference between them - they are one and the same soul in different bodies. 

Before going to war, he saw the pressure that was building up for her conversion and told her many times to guard herself against it. He knew that she had a tough battle on her hands, as tough as the one he was going to fight. At least, he had supporters, who were loyal to him and ready to die for him. She was all alone and the enemy was their own family, which made the battle an emotional mind game. 

His anguish is not that she went against his farman or against his decision. His anguish isn't also about what kind of message her conversion would send to the world at large or how that act would negate his hard-earned victory in the war of principles. 

His anguish is, deep down, simply the feeling of having trusted his soul to someone and then finding that the person had bartered that soul for a short-term gain. He is unable to come to terms with how Jodha, of all people, could withdraw her support to him, his principles, his decisions, just when victory was his. 

I don't know if I am able to do justice to Jalal's state of mind here. It is something we an only feel but very difficult to explain to someone. 

But I know the devastating effect on our mind, heart and soul when our closest friend, supporter, confidante, beloved, withdraws their support to us and joins hands with the other side. We may see that the person has taken the decision because of some solid reasons or under much duress, but we are still unable to reconcile with being "left hanging".  

Going by yesterday's episode, I will say love is still there, very much there between the two. His distress stems from the deep love he has for her. Even now, he is neither able to find succor elsewhere or say anything harsh to her. (Remains to be seen just how this distress is developed by the CVs and taken to the point where he wants to punish her by giving her a divorce). 

His words showed how meaningless his marriage seemed to have become when his wife broke one of the sacred marriage vows. To him, it doesn't matter what his mother or others say or do. They are like extraneous creatures now, his entire focus is on Jodha alone and on what she has done. 

He had never trusted even his shadow all his life till Jodha had entered his life and taught him the meaning of trust over a long period of time. We all know just how long it took for him to develop an unshakeable trust in her. Which indicates just how valuable that trust is to him. If now this hard-earned trust is gone, Jalal seems to be slipping back to where he came from - to the stage where he can trust no one again. 

He does not know how to react - he doesn't trust himself to react just yet. He is unable to accept even to himself just what it is that is paining him so much. When Jodha tells him that his words are hurting her, he laughs derisively - because he is hurting so much that he doesn't know how to deal with it. 

My sympathies lie with both. But I also trust in their love for each other and believe that their pure love will always have divine protection. This love will keep them together, and help them emerge unscathed from this experience too. 

I know we all want to see romance and intimate scenes of AkDha but life is not all romance. MUs and arguments and unpleasantness  raise their heads from time to time. How strong and mature our relationship is depends upon how well we deal with unpleasantness. Depending upon how JJ go about resolving their differences and come together again, their relationship will strengthen further. 

I know the divorce won't happen. Even if Jalal utters those words, it is to be remembered that he is only saying them in hurt and anger - we say many things in our hurt and anger esp with the ones we are closest to. Such words are meaningless. Once the anger, resentment, the hurt, the sense of betrayal is gone, calmness prevails and we are able  to think more rationally. 

I am happy with an introspective Jodha and the fact that she would rather discuss her situation with Moti than Salima. Like someone said, Salima can only issue lip service sympathy; she would never go out on a limb to defend someone.    

Not thinking about the witch at all. This is sick NR. At the end of the track, we know the witch will be kicked out and JJ will be together again. So let's not bother too much about her. 

This content was originally posted by: RadhikaS0

res ..))

Unres

Hi Abhay

plz don't feel so disheartened. This is a show and some drama is necessary to stretch tracks. :) I agree i was also expecting more from Jalal but later, I realised both JJ were being natural. That is how we would react too in their place.

Charu and Devki put my thoughts into beautiful words in yesterday's thread. Thanks ladies :)

I know the CVs have messed up the characters of JJ and HB. But given these reel characters, we have to think of the situation from a neutral perspective and not as JJ fans or PS-RT fans or anti HB viewers. 

Jodha

She resisted the pressure for a really long time. But I can tell you that it's really difficult to be practical and think rationally when a mother figure is dying. And everyone blames you so much for it that you start believing you are responsible for her slipping into death. 

I won't say Jodha is a doormat or a crying machine in this track. Yes, the tears have been incessant. But she has been strong, introspective and has finally taken the plunge (to conversion) as a last resort, when it seems time is running out for her mother-in-law.

She is not happy about it. Apart from the sadness of having to give up on her Kanha, she is well aware that she is going against Jalal as both a husband and as the emperor and that he will be majorly disillusioned with her decision. She is aware that Jalal had forewarned her about pressure being brought upon her and how she must remain strong and stick to their decision, not to convert. She knows he has gone to war to fight for the right of his people to follow a faith of their choice. 

Yes, she is aware of all this. And yes, we all want to see her as a strong, emancipated woman. The trouble with being a strong person is that no one cares to ask how you are doing. People just assume you can do anything and be none the worse for it. 

It is easy to wonder why Jodha cannot be "strong" and "stick to her decision not to convert". But just think of the tremendous psychological, mental and emotional blackmail and pressure brought upon her by the inmates of the palace. For all intents and purposes, she is all alone, save for an inconsequential support like Moti. 

If the MM dies because Jodha didn't convert? 

Then what?

What a furore that would create in the empire! It's not only a question of saving 1 life but also the question of saving an important life - that of the queen mother. Jalal himself may then be upset with her because he had entrusted his mother to her before going to war.

Why didn't Jodha talk to Jalal about Hamida's tantrums and her decision to convert?

Naturally, she cannot upset Jalal with domestic squabbles when he is at war and needs to focus there completely. (She had even kept her pregnancy hidden from him when he was going to war. She had tried to hide her illness when he was about to go to war.) 

She knows that he will never agree to her conversion but, as she sees it, that is the only solution to save Hamida's life. 

Men and women differ in how they think. And people's reactions too differ to the decisions of men and women. It is known that in India, if the son takes a "wrong" decision, families can overlook it but will blame his wife for supporting him, saying that the guy may not have known/understood the consequences, but she, being a woman and responsible for the welfare of the family, should have "known better."

Here too, no one blames Jalal as such for either the war or for supporting right to faith, but are quick to condemn Jodha for the same causes. What a dichotomy!

The tragedy of being Jodha is that all these months, she suffered alone, putting up with social ostracization, isolation and unimaginable amount of ghrina and blame for simply supporting Jalal's decisions. It was ironic to see yesterday how all these women, who were ostensibly against war and Jalal's decisions,   were fawning over him and feeling proud of his victory in the war.

Which leads me to believe that Hamida actually thought that Jalal would lose the war against the more powerful (in her opinion) Shah-i-Iran. She may have got hyper thinking Jalal was going for a war that he would surely lose and she wanted to avoid this "loss of face" by compromising on ethics and sovereignty. 

It is easy to say "be strong" to someone else because we are not carrying the cross that they are. Sometimes, it is worthwhile remembering that a person who is having to take a decision then and there, using their limited perspective, is doing the best she can under the circumstances. 

In my view, Jodha is being as strong as she can in her position because she has taken the tough decision to save the MM over standing by her vow to her husband. Because in our Indian society, then or now, the mother is held over and above husband and children too, leave alone the kingdom. 

The irony is that just a moment turned the tide against Jodha. If only she had waited half a day more, Jalal would have returned and all would have been well. Well, almost - because I don't think in that case, Hamida would have ever stopped being hostile to her for not having listened to her order for conversion. 

Now Jodha is at a cross-roads. Her husband feels terribly let-down by her. Her in-laws have calmly brushed off any involvement in the matter and are pretending to be as innocent as babes lost in the woods. 

Should Jodha have told Jalal about Hamida's blackmail?

No. Nothing sounds cheaper to me than complaining about someone's behavior behind their back. Esp complaining about your mother-in-law to your husband. 

Jalal already knew that his mother had tried to convert Jodha once. He knows that his mother has been off food for some reason. He should have known 2+2 = 4 , without Jodha having to tell him explicitly. He should know that his wife of some 25 odd years would not go against his wishes just like that, unless some strong reason was there. 

Under general circumstances, he keeps saying that there must be a strong reason behind Jodha's actions but he forgets that when something major happens. 

No, I don't blame Jodha for buckling under pressure. I don't blame her for keeping it from her husband. And I don't think she is weak. 

Jalal

Like I said, he should have understood that his mother had brought pressure upon Jodha to convert by refusing to eat food. 

When I saw the dark, stormy face of Jalal, as he entered the palace, and the way he purposefully strode towards his mother's chamber to talk to her, I thought he understood everything and would make his mother apologize to Jodha for forcing her to convert. But this didn't happen. 

Well, I understood the makers are going to milk this drama as long as they can and stretch it beyond endurance. 

But it may be that Jalal is being the TE and trying to wriggle a confession out of his mother, though I doubt it. There is no way to know ever when Jalal is being TE. :(

The only explanation that seems plausible to me is that he is deeply anguished by Jodha's betrayal, as he sees it. Here, he is separating her from others and seeing only her actions in isolation. 

WHich many of us do most times. I can recall many times when my son does something wrong and says he did it because "everyone (of his friends) was doing it". And I tell him that I don't care about the others but only about what he does and he should have remembered what I told him instead of giving weightage to what others told him. 

This ^^^ example is only to illustrate a point. 

We have different standards of judgement for the ones we love truly and for ones we don't care about. Jalal is able to brush off Ruq's antics because he doesn't care for her or what she does. But he cannot bear Jodha going wrong even slightly because it matters tremendously to him how she is. 

If he trusts anyone at all completely, it is her. He made her the MEH for the simple reason that he takes her to be his shadow, his own reflection or alter ego. In his eyes, there is no difference between them - they are one and the same soul in different bodies. 

Before going to war, he saw the pressure that was building up for her conversion and told her many times to guard herself against it. He knew that she had a tough battle on her hands, as tough as the one he was going to fight. At least, he had supporters, who were loyal to him and ready to die for him. She was all alone and the enemy was their own family, which made the battle an emotional mind game. 

His anguish is not that she went against his farman or against his decision. His anguish isn't also about what kind of message her conversion would send to the world at large or how that act would negate his hard-earned victory in the war of principles. 

His anguish is, deep down, simply the feeling of having trusted his soul to someone and then finding that the person had bartered that soul for a short-term gain. He is unable to come to terms with how Jodha, of all people, could withdraw her support to him, his principles, his decisions, just when victory was his. 

I don't know if I am able to do justice to Jalal's state of mind here. It is something we an only feel but very difficult to explain to someone. 

But I know the devastating effect on our mind, heart and soul when our closest friend, supporter, confidante, beloved, withdraws their support to us and joins hands with the other side. We may see that the person has taken the decision because of some solid reasons or under much duress, but we are still unable to reconcile with being "left hanging".  

Going by yesterday's episode, I will say love is still there, very much there between the two. His distress stems from the deep love he has for her. Even now, he is neither able to find succor elsewhere or say anything harsh to her. (Remains to be seen just how this distress is developed by the CVs and taken to the point where he wants to punish her by giving her a divorce). 

His words showed how meaningless his marriage seemed to have become when his wife broke one of the sacred marriage vows. To him, it doesn't matter what his mother or others say or do. They are like extraneous creatures now, his entire focus is on Jodha alone and on what she has done. 

He had never trusted even his shadow all his life till Jodha had entered his life and taught him the meaning of trust over a long period of time. We all know just how long it took for him to develop an unshakeable trust in her. Which indicates just how valuable that trust is to him. If now this hard-earned trust is gone, Jalal seems to be slipping back to where he came from - to the stage where he can trust no one again. 

He does not know how to react - he doesn't trust himself to react just yet. He is unable to accept even to himself just what it is that is paining him so much. When Jodha tells him that his words are hurting her, he laughs derisively - because he is hurting so much that he doesn't know how to deal with it. 

My sympathies lie with both. But I also trust in their love for each other and believe that their pure love will always have divine protection. This love will keep them together, and help them emerge unscathed from this experience too. 

I know we all want to see romance and intimate scenes of AkDha but life is not all romance. MUs and arguments and unpleasantness  raise their heads from time to time. How strong and mature our relationship is depends upon how well we deal with unpleasantness. Depending upon how JJ go about resolving their differences and come together again, their relationship will strengthen further. 

I know the divorce won't happen. Even if Jalal utters those words, it is to be remembered that he is only saying them in hurt and anger - we say many things in our hurt and anger esp with the ones we are closest to. Such words are meaningless. Once the anger, resentment, the hurt, the sense of betrayal is gone, calmness prevails and we are able  to think more rationally. 

I am happy with an introspective Jodha and the fact that she would rather discuss her situation with Moti than Salima. Like someone said, Salima can only issue lip service sympathy; she would never go out on a limb to defend someone.    

Not thinking about the witch at all. This is sick NR. At the end of the track, we know the witch will be kicked out and JJ will be together again. So let's not bother too much about her. 

  

Radhika, well written . As you said of course hurdles will be there in JJ's life but we know they will face it together as they deeply love each other.

I do understand Jodha's plight but my problem is I had great expectations from Jodha but my hopes were in vain.

1. Is this the same Jodha , who told Jalal that she would be sad If she comes to know of Jalal's decision from a third person other than him. The same is applicable to Jodha too. She does not have to tell about MM in Public but after such a major incident happened, she should at least tell Jalal the reason to why she had to do this in Private. He has every right to know, because one way or the other he is going to Know. They have been married for so many years and trust and love each other immensely. Just like Jodha cant read Jalal minds, same goes to Jalal. Both needs to communicate with each other, its very important .

2. I am not currently thinking about MUZ/MEH as there is no use. CVS have given this title in this serial to Jodha only for name sake. Bandhis and Salim announce it every where other than that so far I have not seen the purpose except for helping the sick. Jodha did withstand HB for quite some time, but she did not try to resolve it via proper channels. She tried taking food for HB etc, but got insulted in return and did not retaliate. Being MIL, I certainly can see we need to respect and we cannot talk back. SB was of no use too. Still better alternatives was possible.

3. Going to convert without informing anyone in the palace was just too much. Yes she did not want to stress or worry Jalal in the war but BB and TM were there.I just watched the Jodha who gave a good suggestion to Jalal during RUK Lal, divorce. Where has that Jodha gone. I am not looking for a fiery or a strong Jodha. I need a Jodha who can think firmly. Letting her sacrifice all the time is not going to be the solution to all problems.

Here HB is the main culprit, I can never look at her with the same respect I had. I need to see a balanced Jodha who  does not just keep sacrificing herself to solve everyone's Problems. This way she is encouraging only everyone to keep blaming herself because they know they can take her for granted. HB would dare not do this with BB, Ruks as they will not budge and sacrifice their lives for her.

This Jodha is unaware to what happens in the Harem. Ruks knows minute details and still manipulates Jodha. Though Ruks plans flop but still Jodha is unaware of all Ruks Plans. Is that possible.

I am just mad at CVS for portraying Jodha like this. Yes she is strong, courageous but ...
Edited by SindhuMenon - 8 years ago

This content was originally posted by: RadhikaS0

res ..))

Unres

Hi Abhay

plz don't feel so disheartened. This is a show and some drama is necessary to stretch tracks. :) I agree i was also expecting more from Jalal but later, I realised both JJ were being natural. That is how we would react too in their place.

Charu and Devki put my thoughts into beautiful words in yesterday's thread. Thanks ladies :)

I know the CVs have messed up the characters of JJ and HB. But given these reel characters, we have to think of the situation from a neutral perspective and not as JJ fans or PS-RT fans or anti HB viewers. 

Jodha

She resisted the pressure for a really long time. But I can tell you that it's really difficult to be practical and think rationally when a mother figure is dying. And everyone blames you so much for it that you start believing you are responsible for her slipping into death. 

I won't say Jodha is a doormat or a crying machine in this track. Yes, the tears have been incessant. But she has been strong, introspective and has finally taken the plunge (to conversion) as a last resort, when it seems time is running out for her mother-in-law.

She is not happy about it. Apart from the sadness of having to give up on her Kanha, she is well aware that she is going against Jalal as both a husband and as the emperor and that he will be majorly disillusioned with her decision. She is aware that Jalal had forewarned her about pressure being brought upon her and how she must remain strong and stick to their decision, not to convert. She knows he has gone to war to fight for the right of his people to follow a faith of their choice. 

Yes, she is aware of all this. And yes, we all want to see her as a strong, emancipated woman. The trouble with being a strong person is that no one cares to ask how you are doing. People just assume you can do anything and be none the worse for it. 

It is easy to wonder why Jodha cannot be "strong" and "stick to her decision not to convert". But just think of the tremendous psychological, mental and emotional blackmail and pressure brought upon her by the inmates of the palace. For all intents and purposes, she is all alone, save for an inconsequential support like Moti. 

If the MM dies because Jodha didn't convert? 

Then what?

What a furore that would create in the empire! It's not only a question of saving 1 life but also the question of saving an important life - that of the queen mother. Jalal himself may then be upset with her because he had entrusted his mother to her before going to war.

Why didn't Jodha talk to Jalal about Hamida's tantrums and her decision to convert?

Naturally, she cannot upset Jalal with domestic squabbles when he is at war and needs to focus there completely. (She had even kept her pregnancy hidden from him when he was going to war. She had tried to hide her illness when he was about to go to war.) 

She knows that he will never agree to her conversion but, as she sees it, that is the only solution to save Hamida's life. 

Men and women differ in how they think. And people's reactions too differ to the decisions of men and women. It is known that in India, if the son takes a "wrong" decision, families can overlook it but will blame his wife for supporting him, saying that the guy may not have known/understood the consequences, but she, being a woman and responsible for the welfare of the family, should have "known better."

Here too, no one blames Jalal as such for either the war or for supporting right to faith, but are quick to condemn Jodha for the same causes. What a dichotomy!

The tragedy of being Jodha is that all these months, she suffered alone, putting up with social ostracization, isolation and unimaginable amount of ghrina and blame for simply supporting Jalal's decisions. It was ironic to see yesterday how all these women, who were ostensibly against war and Jalal's decisions,   were fawning over him and feeling proud of his victory in the war.

Which leads me to believe that Hamida actually thought that Jalal would lose the war against the more powerful (in her opinion) Shah-i-Iran. She may have got hyper thinking Jalal was going for a war that he would surely lose and she wanted to avoid this "loss of face" by compromising on ethics and sovereignty. 

It is easy to say "be strong" to someone else because we are not carrying the cross that they are. Sometimes, it is worthwhile remembering that a person who is having to take a decision then and there, using their limited perspective, is doing the best she can under the circumstances. 

In my view, Jodha is being as strong as she can in her position because she has taken the tough decision to save the MM over standing by her vow to her husband. Because in our Indian society, then or now, the mother is held over and above husband and children too, leave alone the kingdom. 

The irony is that just a moment turned the tide against Jodha. If only she had waited half a day more, Jalal would have returned and all would have been well. Well, almost - because I don't think in that case, Hamida would have ever stopped being hostile to her for not having listened to her order for conversion. 

Now Jodha is at a cross-roads. Her husband feels terribly let-down by her. Her in-laws have calmly brushed off any involvement in the matter and are pretending to be as innocent as babes lost in the woods. 

Should Jodha have told Jalal about Hamida's blackmail?

No. Nothing sounds cheaper to me than complaining about someone's behavior behind their back. Esp complaining about your mother-in-law to your husband. 

Jalal already knew that his mother had tried to convert Jodha once. He knows that his mother has been off food for some reason. He should have known 2+2 = 4 , without Jodha having to tell him explicitly. He should know that his wife of some 25 odd years would not go against his wishes just like that, unless some strong reason was there. 

Under general circumstances, he keeps saying that there must be a strong reason behind Jodha's actions but he forgets that when something major happens. 

No, I don't blame Jodha for buckling under pressure. I don't blame her for keeping it from her husband. And I don't think she is weak. 

Jalal

Like I said, he should have understood that his mother had brought pressure upon Jodha to convert by refusing to eat food. 

When I saw the dark, stormy face of Jalal, as he entered the palace, and the way he purposefully strode towards his mother's chamber to talk to her, I thought he understood everything and would make his mother apologize to Jodha for forcing her to convert. But this didn't happen. 

Well, I understood the makers are going to milk this drama as long as they can and stretch it beyond endurance. 

But it may be that Jalal is being the TE and trying to wriggle a confession out of his mother, though I doubt it. There is no way to know ever when Jalal is being TE. :(

The only explanation that seems plausible to me is that he is deeply anguished by Jodha's betrayal, as he sees it. Here, he is separating her from others and seeing only her actions in isolation. 

WHich many of us do most times. I can recall many times when my son does something wrong and says he did it because "everyone (of his friends) was doing it". And I tell him that I don't care about the others but only about what he does and he should have remembered what I told him instead of giving weightage to what others told him. 

This ^^^ example is only to illustrate a point. 

We have different standards of judgement for the ones we love truly and for ones we don't care about. Jalal is able to brush off Ruq's antics because he doesn't care for her or what she does. But he cannot bear Jodha going wrong even slightly because it matters tremendously to him how she is. 

If he trusts anyone at all completely, it is her. He made her the MEH for the simple reason that he takes her to be his shadow, his own reflection or alter ego. In his eyes, there is no difference between them - they are one and the same soul in different bodies. 

Before going to war, he saw the pressure that was building up for her conversion and told her many times to guard herself against it. He knew that she had a tough battle on her hands, as tough as the one he was going to fight. At least, he had supporters, who were loyal to him and ready to die for him. She was all alone and the enemy was their own family, which made the battle an emotional mind game. 

His anguish is not that she went against his farman or against his decision. His anguish isn't also about what kind of message her conversion would send to the world at large or how that act would negate his hard-earned victory in the war of principles. 

His anguish is, deep down, simply the feeling of having trusted his soul to someone and then finding that the person had bartered that soul for a short-term gain. He is unable to come to terms with how Jodha, of all people, could withdraw her support to him, his principles, his decisions, just when victory was his. 

I don't know if I am able to do justice to Jalal's state of mind here. It is something we an only feel but very difficult to explain to someone. 

But I know the devastating effect on our mind, heart and soul when our closest friend, supporter, confidante, beloved, withdraws their support to us and joins hands with the other side. We may see that the person has taken the decision because of some solid reasons or under much duress, but we are still unable to reconcile with being "left hanging".  

Going by yesterday's episode, I will say love is still there, very much there between the two. His distress stems from the deep love he has for her. Even now, he is neither able to find succor elsewhere or say anything harsh to her. (Remains to be seen just how this distress is developed by the CVs and taken to the point where he wants to punish her by giving her a divorce). 

His words showed how meaningless his marriage seemed to have become when his wife broke one of the sacred marriage vows. To him, it doesn't matter what his mother or others say or do. They are like extraneous creatures now, his entire focus is on Jodha alone and on what she has done. 

He had never trusted even his shadow all his life till Jodha had entered his life and taught him the meaning of trust over a long period of time. We all know just how long it took for him to develop an unshakeable trust in her. Which indicates just how valuable that trust is to him. If now this hard-earned trust is gone, Jalal seems to be slipping back to where he came from - to the stage where he can trust no one again. 

He does not know how to react - he doesn't trust himself to react just yet. He is unable to accept even to himself just what it is that is paining him so much. When Jodha tells him that his words are hurting her, he laughs derisively - because he is hurting so much that he doesn't know how to deal with it. 

My sympathies lie with both. But I also trust in their love for each other and believe that their pure love will always have divine protection. This love will keep them together, and help them emerge unscathed from this experience too. 

I know we all want to see romance and intimate scenes of AkDha but life is not all romance. MUs and arguments and unpleasantness  raise their heads from time to time. How strong and mature our relationship is depends upon how well we deal with unpleasantness. Depending upon how JJ go about resolving their differences and come together again, their relationship will strengthen further. 

I know the divorce won't happen. Even if Jalal utters those words, it is to be remembered that he is only saying them in hurt and anger - we say many things in our hurt and anger esp with the ones we are closest to. Such words are meaningless. Once the anger, resentment, the hurt, the sense of betrayal is gone, calmness prevails and we are able  to think more rationally. 

I am happy with an introspective Jodha and the fact that she would rather discuss her situation with Moti than Salima. Like someone said, Salima can only issue lip service sympathy; she would never go out on a limb to defend someone.    

Not thinking about the witch at all. This is sick NR. At the end of the track, we know the witch will be kicked out and JJ will be together again. So let's not bother too much about her. 

  

Edited by neesha19 - 8 years ago

This content was originally posted by: RadhikaS0

res ..))

Unres

Hi Abhay

plz don't feel so disheartened. This is a show and some drama is necessary to stretch tracks. :) I agree i was also expecting more from Jalal but later, I realised both JJ were being natural. That is how we would react too in their place.

Charu and Devki put my thoughts into beautiful words in yesterday's thread. Thanks ladies :)

I know the CVs have messed up the characters of JJ and HB. But given these reel characters, we have to think of the situation from a neutral perspective and not as JJ fans or PS-RT fans or anti HB viewers. 

Jodha

She resisted the pressure for a really long time. But I can tell you that it's really difficult to be practical and think rationally when a mother figure is dying. And everyone blames you so much for it that you start believing you are responsible for her slipping into death. 

I won't say Jodha is a doormat or a crying machine in this track. Yes, the tears have been incessant. But she has been strong, introspective and has finally taken the plunge (to conversion) as a last resort, when it seems time is running out for her mother-in-law.

She is not happy about it. Apart from the sadness of having to give up on her Kanha, she is well aware that she is going against Jalal as both a husband and as the emperor and that he will be majorly disillusioned with her decision. She is aware that Jalal had forewarned her about pressure being brought upon her and how she must remain strong and stick to their decision, not to convert. She knows he has gone to war to fight for the right of his people to follow a faith of their choice. 

Yes, she is aware of all this. And yes, we all want to see her as a strong, emancipated woman. The trouble with being a strong person is that no one cares to ask how you are doing. People just assume you can do anything and be none the worse for it. 

It is easy to wonder why Jodha cannot be "strong" and "stick to her decision not to convert". But just think of the tremendous psychological, mental and emotional blackmail and pressure brought upon her by the inmates of the palace. For all intents and purposes, she is all alone, save for an inconsequential support like Moti. 

If the MM dies because Jodha didn't convert? 

Then what?

What a furore that would create in the empire! It's not only a question of saving 1 life but also the question of saving an important life - that of the queen mother. Jalal himself may then be upset with her because he had entrusted his mother to her before going to war.

Why didn't Jodha talk to Jalal about Hamida's tantrums and her decision to convert?

Naturally, she cannot upset Jalal with domestic squabbles when he is at war and needs to focus there completely. (She had even kept her pregnancy hidden from him when he was going to war. She had tried to hide her illness when he was about to go to war.) 

She knows that he will never agree to her conversion but, as she sees it, that is the only solution to save Hamida's life. 

Men and women differ in how they think. And people's reactions too differ to the decisions of men and women. It is known that in India, if the son takes a "wrong" decision, families can overlook it but will blame his wife for supporting him, saying that the guy may not have known/understood the consequences, but she, being a woman and responsible for the welfare of the family, should have "known better."

Here too, no one blames Jalal as such for either the war or for supporting right to faith, but are quick to condemn Jodha for the same causes. What a dichotomy!

The tragedy of being Jodha is that all these months, she suffered alone, putting up with social ostracization, isolation and unimaginable amount of ghrina and blame for simply supporting Jalal's decisions. It was ironic to see yesterday how all these women, who were ostensibly against war and Jalal's decisions,   were fawning over him and feeling proud of his victory in the war.

Which leads me to believe that Hamida actually thought that Jalal would lose the war against the more powerful (in her opinion) Shah-i-Iran. She may have got hyper thinking Jalal was going for a war that he would surely lose and she wanted to avoid this "loss of face" by compromising on ethics and sovereignty. 

It is easy to say "be strong" to someone else because we are not carrying the cross that they are. Sometimes, it is worthwhile remembering that a person who is having to take a decision then and there, using their limited perspective, is doing the best she can under the circumstances. 

In my view, Jodha is being as strong as she can in her position because she has taken the tough decision to save the MM over standing by her vow to her husband. Because in our Indian society, then or now, the mother is held over and above husband and children too, leave alone the kingdom. 

The irony is that just a moment turned the tide against Jodha. If only she had waited half a day more, Jalal would have returned and all would have been well. Well, almost - because I don't think in that case, Hamida would have ever stopped being hostile to her for not having listened to her order for conversion. 

Now Jodha is at a cross-roads. Her husband feels terribly let-down by her. Her in-laws have calmly brushed off any involvement in the matter and are pretending to be as innocent as babes lost in the woods. 

Should Jodha have told Jalal about Hamida's blackmail?

No. Nothing sounds cheaper to me than complaining about someone's behavior behind their back. Esp complaining about your mother-in-law to your husband. 

Jalal already knew that his mother had tried to convert Jodha once. He knows that his mother has been off food for some reason. He should have known 2+2 = 4 , without Jodha having to tell him explicitly. He should know that his wife of some 25 odd years would not go against his wishes just like that, unless some strong reason was there. 

Under general circumstances, he keeps saying that there must be a strong reason behind Jodha's actions but he forgets that when something major happens. 

No, I don't blame Jodha for buckling under pressure. I don't blame her for keeping it from her husband. And I don't think she is weak. 

Jalal

Like I said, he should have understood that his mother had brought pressure upon Jodha to convert by refusing to eat food. 

When I saw the dark, stormy face of Jalal, as he entered the palace, and the way he purposefully strode towards his mother's chamber to talk to her, I thought he understood everything and would make his mother apologize to Jodha for forcing her to convert. But this didn't happen. 

Well, I understood the makers are going to milk this drama as long as they can and stretch it beyond endurance. 

But it may be that Jalal is being the TE and trying to wriggle a confession out of his mother, though I doubt it. There is no way to know ever when Jalal is being TE. :(

The only explanation that seems plausible to me is that he is deeply anguished by Jodha's betrayal, as he sees it. Here, he is separating her from others and seeing only her actions in isolation. 

WHich many of us do most times. I can recall many times when my son does something wrong and says he did it because "everyone (of his friends) was doing it". And I tell him that I don't care about the others but only about what he does and he should have remembered what I told him instead of giving weightage to what others told him. 

This ^^^ example is only to illustrate a point. 

We have different standards of judgement for the ones we love truly and for ones we don't care about. Jalal is able to brush off Ruq's antics because he doesn't care for her or what she does. But he cannot bear Jodha going wrong even slightly because it matters tremendously to him how she is. 

If he trusts anyone at all completely, it is her. He made her the MEH for the simple reason that he takes her to be his shadow, his own reflection or alter ego. In his eyes, there is no difference between them - they are one and the same soul in different bodies. 

Before going to war, he saw the pressure that was building up for her conversion and told her many times to guard herself against it. He knew that she had a tough battle on her hands, as tough as the one he was going to fight. At least, he had supporters, who were loyal to him and ready to die for him. She was all alone and the enemy was their own family, which made the battle an emotional mind game. 

His anguish is not that she went against his farman or against his decision. His anguish isn't also about what kind of message her conversion would send to the world at large or how that act would negate his hard-earned victory in the war of principles. 

His anguish is, deep down, simply the feeling of having trusted his soul to someone and then finding that the person had bartered that soul for a short-term gain. He is unable to come to terms with how Jodha, of all people, could withdraw her support to him, his principles, his decisions, just when victory was his. 

I don't know if I am able to do justice to Jalal's state of mind here. It is something we an only feel but very difficult to explain to someone. 

But I know the devastating effect on our mind, heart and soul when our closest friend, supporter, confidante, beloved, withdraws their support to us and joins hands with the other side. We may see that the person has taken the decision because of some solid reasons or under much duress, but we are still unable to reconcile with being "left hanging".  

Going by yesterday's episode, I will say love is still there, very much there between the two. His distress stems from the deep love he has for her. Even now, he is neither able to find succor elsewhere or say anything harsh to her. (Remains to be seen just how this distress is developed by the CVs and taken to the point where he wants to punish her by giving her a divorce). 

His words showed how meaningless his marriage seemed to have become when his wife broke one of the sacred marriage vows. To him, it doesn't matter what his mother or others say or do. They are like extraneous creatures now, his entire focus is on Jodha alone and on what she has done. 

He had never trusted even his shadow all his life till Jodha had entered his life and taught him the meaning of trust over a long period of time. We all know just how long it took for him to develop an unshakeable trust in her. Which indicates just how valuable that trust is to him. If now this hard-earned trust is gone, Jalal seems to be slipping back to where he came from - to the stage where he can trust no one again. 

He does not know how to react - he doesn't trust himself to react just yet. He is unable to accept even to himself just what it is that is paining him so much. When Jodha tells him that his words are hurting her, he laughs derisively - because he is hurting so much that he doesn't know how to deal with it. 

My sympathies lie with both. But I also trust in their love for each other and believe that their pure love will always have divine protection. This love will keep them together, and help them emerge unscathed from this experience too. 

I know we all want to see romance and intimate scenes of AkDha but life is not all romance. MUs and arguments and unpleasantness  raise their heads from time to time. How strong and mature our relationship is depends upon how well we deal with unpleasantness. Depending upon how JJ go about resolving their differences and come together again, their relationship will strengthen further. 

I know the divorce won't happen. Even if Jalal utters those words, it is to be remembered that he is only saying them in hurt and anger - we say many things in our hurt and anger esp with the ones we are closest to. Such words are meaningless. Once the anger, resentment, the hurt, the sense of betrayal is gone, calmness prevails and we are able  to think more rationally. 

I am happy with an introspective Jodha and the fact that she would rather discuss her situation with Moti than Salima. Like someone said, Salima can only issue lip service sympathy; she would never go out on a limb to defend someone.    

Not thinking about the witch at all. This is sick NR. At the end of the track, we know the witch will be kicked out and JJ will be together again. So let's not bother too much about her. 

  

Edited by Charu.S - 8 years ago

This content was originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Abhay

Updated post on pg 1. 😊

Link

Radhika,
Thanks a lot for this well thought out post. It explained many things. :)

Abhay, Radhika, Aady, Charu , Sindhu and Mishti...what wonderful posts and points of view.  I have not watched this dismal track for a while now and have no intention of watching in the future.  Like Radhika said no matter how much I try, I cannot relate to this show anymore.  "This historical" show is the figment of some very twisted and warped imagination.  

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This content was originally posted by: Coolpree

Abhay, Radhika, Aady, Charu , Sindhu and Mishti...what wonderful posts and points of view.  I have not watched this dismal track for a while now and have no intention of watching in the future.  Like Radhika said no matter how much I try, I cannot relate to this show anymore.  "This historical" show is the figment of some very twisted and warped imagination.  

While the characters of MM, Gulbadan and now even Salima ( to some extent) have been butchered mercilessly, I am not personally invested in these characters so it does not upset me as much.

On the other hand I completely and totally reject this portrayal of Jodha/MUZ .  It no longer angers or saddens me because I am tired to reiterating the same point of view.  Mishti and Sindhu have expressed exactly what I feel about this character portrayal.  I would rather not be left with the impression that Jodha was this weepy,MUTE,  clueless, weak empress who could'nt even stand up for her husbands ideals let alone her own proud  Rajvanshi roots.  In this track she has completely lost the plot!!!

In published letters of  the East India Company, a British official (  a contemporary of MUZ) has provided us with a rare personal description of MUZ her self.  He describes her as " A Woman of high spirits"  , " A great adventurer" " With a taste for the Unusual".   

Even though the current scenario is different I want to ask my friends here a simple question... Since the Khyber track, Where in this serial have they given us even a hint  of the above described vibrant and strong personality she was supposed to be????

Unforgivable!!!  I can't wait for this to shut down.  I don't want the vast TV audience  to have this pitiful  impression of Jodha.  

Preeti,

Completely agree with you. There is a certain tolerance limit in everyone. Now, in this track, the level of tolerance is crossing all limits.

I really do not know what to say here. And, about the writers, i have a doubt they even know anything about MUZ that she was a trader apart from being a "crying lady" , and about Akbar that apart from being a ruler he had brought ENORMOUS reforms, each of which can be a track of min. 1 month in the show.

People request them to show Sati track, and they thrust "Kala Jaadu and Witch" on us. Do they even care for the feedback they get ?

I remember, i was "strongly contesting" with someone about MUZ's trading, a month back, and i mentioned the same document which you are referring here. Here is what i said -> 

" Read the Archives of British East India Company, Volume Number 2, Record Number 194, Published after 1610. You will find they talk about the mother of Jahangir as a "great trader women" who was "HIGHLY adventurous"..

There is a limit to give docs and ask for improvement in the show. But they do not listen. Do they do some favor on us if they write good tracks ? Though, i had stopped expecting this show to present any proper depiction of Akbar or MUZ long back, but at least one expects certain decency but it looks like the writers are ready to shred every left over piece of whatever image of theirs is in our mind.!

Not only this, even the Natkiye Rupanter of Shah-i-Iran track was not acceptable. Their fascination of including Salim in every matter is proving disastrous. It could have been presented in very nice fashion, showing political and religious conflict of Akbar, but Salim was thrusted on us. And now, when they are getting back to Jodha Akbar, they don't know how to handle the story.

I have accepted there is nothing which can make them, show proper tracks. They do horrible NR's of simple and well defined historical events. Latest was Shah-i-Iran track. Writing to them is almost meaningless, it looks. I have not seen such stubborness till now, after many failures. What stops them from showing a strong and sensible J-J ?

Edited by history_geek - 8 years ago