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Draw Muhammad contest Taxas!!! WHY?? (Page 4)

AnuMP IF-Rockerz
AnuMP
AnuMP

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 6:55pm | IP Logged
@K
Agree that the contest is in bad taste.

But free speech should have no limits unless your free speech harms me physically or my belongings. If you start placing other limits on speech, then something you say will offend someone someplace at sometime.

Besides, protection of the First Amendment is necessary for offensive speech. Inoffensive speech does not need protection.

Your speech may offend me, but I will defend your right to be offensive. We simply cannot legislate good tasteLOL

As to what other communities would do - please check the image out (Moderator, if you think it is against IF's rules, I will edit the post)

This won the Awards in Visual Arts competition sponsored by the National Endowment for Arts of the US government. While people were outraged, there were no gunmen coming into the Stux Gallery or to the AP office which was selling copies of the photograph on their website.


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9tanki

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:09pm | IP Logged
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BirdieNumNum

BirdieNumNum Goldie
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 7:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arwen.

Events like that Draw Mohammad Contest makes me want to make fun of Holocaust or some other equally sensitive issue... 

of course you won't.Wink Because you know how the civilized world would react, and no one in their right mind would want to go to the medieval east where you'd get a medal for it.LOL  You're doing no ehsan buddy, except khud pehLOL

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9tanki

BirdieNumNum Goldie
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 8:04pm | IP Logged
i dont know why someone would not like the cartoon contest. You dont like drawing, or you dont like weird looking characters?LOL

the world progresses on the back of intellectual discourse. These cartoons are a way of bringing certain ideologies in sharp focus. A lot of us do believe that those ideologies are bad for the world, on par with nazism. So buddies, it's not just free speech for the speaker, its about people receiving a different viewpoint.. Why should their choices be limited by the crazy antics of a certain group?.

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9tanki

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 9:33pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by 9tanki

I just want to know I am supporter of this cartoon contest, does it mean someone can issue fatwa for me ? Or my opinion doesn't matter as long as I don't draw image of my views ? Am I allowed free speech or I should be scared that tomorrow someone can harm me because of my views ?
Some of the cartoons that I googled are really too much. They should draw a line somewhere at least.
Any normal person would get angry reading them ... even if they are not Muslims.
K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2064

Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:27pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by 9tanki


.
If we go by your theory what's ur opinion on jokes that could be offending too ? Should people stop making jokes ? 



It depends on how many people are offended and to what extent they are offended. If it a large population that is offended and if the 'jokes' are highly offensive, then yes, people should stop making 'jokes'. There is nothing funny about flaring tempers of millions.

Originally posted by 9tanki



.The one drawing cartoon of Muhammad or Politician are just expressing their feelings whether the follower like it or hate it.



Fine but if "those guys' at the receiving end of the jokes want to express their feelings in their own way, are we ready to absorb the risk of another 9/11 or 26/11? I am not. It's not like these cartoonists or the organizers will be at the forefront fighting terrorism anyway, so they have to be more responsible. We simply can't expose a nation to danger because of the foolish actions of a few. Like I said earlier, there is no conceivable reward whatsoever to these contests. And i am not buying pseudo-psychoanalysis that these contests will bring a 180 degree turn in people. Sorry!


K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:44pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by AnuMP

@K


But free speech should have no limits unless your free speech harms me physically or my belongings. If you start placing other limits on speech, then something you say will offend someone someplace at sometime.

Did we practice "free speech" when we were kids and at those times when we thought the parents were too damn strict that the curse words almost escaped our mouths? What stopped us then? No one would be physically harmed, isn't that right?


Besides, protection of the First Amendment is necessary for offensive speech. Inoffensive speech does not need protection.

Can I use offensive speech on this forum without getting reported? Why are posts moderated?

As to what other communities would do - please check the image out (Moderator, if you think it is against IF's rules, I will edit the post)

This won the Awards in Visual Arts competition sponsored by the National Endowment for Arts of the US government. While people were outraged, there were no gunmen coming into the Stux Gallery or to the AP office which was selling copies of the photograph on their website.


So, you are OK posting an image that may be offensive to Christians but on a topic about Muhammad, it is interesting that you didn't you post a related image. Why did you chicken out?


 




Rehanism IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.




What limits the freedom of speech and expression relating to blasphemy is LAW. What keeps the relationship between organized religion and the nation at a distance is separation of church and state. So the "most potent weapon" against tyranny that you are speaking of is not mockery; it is enacting LAWS. It is banning blasphemy. It is separating religion and state.

Whose laws? What if the lawmakers and law enforcers are themselves party to an oppressive system?

There are anti-blasphemy laws in 32 countries most of which are Muslim-majority nations, such as those in the Middle East and North Africa. Is it absurd to think that they are not "subjected" to what is going on in the developed nations, what kind of laws are enacted and how the "church" keeps its distance from the state. It's not like they are cut-off from the rest of the world. So the suggestion to subject them to mockery is farcical.

87 nations have hate speech laws that covered defamation of religion and public expression of hate against a religious group. Even in those developed nations where there is a ban on blasphemy, there could be penalties or retaliation under blasphemous libel or vilification of religion or hate speech. Now, what constitutes blasphemy in Islam depends on the action, speech or behavior. So, those nations which have banned blasphemy still have to deal with libel.

I suppose you mean 'decriminalized blasphemy' when you say 'banned blasphemy'. Otherwise its confusing.

There's difference between 'hate speech' and blasphemy or 'offensive speech' in context of sentiments. Hate speech is targeted against real living people or group of people and seek to jeopardize their life and liberties. Calling for expulsion of Muslims is hate speech. Mocking Islam or its symbols is not. Provoking violence against people of Pakistani, Indian, Iranian, Chinese or North Korean descent or any other ethnicity or creed is hate speech and hate crime. But attacking their social and political ideologies is not. Ideas, traditions and beliefs are not living beings and therefore they need not be immune to criticism, ridicule or attack. I am not against hate speech or defamation laws that secure the social and economic integrity of people but I am against laws that criminalize blasphemy just because it my provoke someone to act violently. That's just blaming the wrong person and infantalising certain communities. Ridiculing historical/mythical figures cannot belong to the category of hate speech at all.

You are assuming that all/most Muslims want to commit blasphemy but are afraid to do so only because of "tyrannical" rule. Some of them (about 3% of the total Muslim population) live in developed countries but are still devout. What these Muhammad cartoon contests are doing is ALSO offending these devout Muslims. What of their feelings? Collateral damage?

I don't know where did I imply that. I only said that the reason Muslims are so bothered by blasphemy because they live in societies or communities where religion rules the roost. They are not used to pluralism of thought and action. That's why they are more outraged than say a devout Christian in Europe or US who is used to his faith being ridiculed by the other side.

I haven't seen evidence to suggest that free speech laws were enacted in developed nations because "regular onslaught of heretics" forced them into free speech. I am sure you have your reasons to believe so.

I didn't speak of laws at all. I spoke about change in mindset of common people.

In India, blasphemy is covered under hate speech. So, forget the tyrannical nations, even in India, there is no way people will mess with the law, even assuming they are itching to blaspheme.

The Indian anti-blasphemy laws like 295A or 153 are often claimed to be in place to protect 'public law and order' circumstantially. That is in fact a cowardly admission on the part of our state of its inability to tame the unruly religious elements and defend the democratic rights of the citizens.

Actually there are many who are working hard to get rid of those laws. In democratic nations we can do that. Recently 66A was disposed off. Hopefully someday we will do away with the rest as well.


Lastly, yes, species evolve. Into what is the question. Predators or prey.

Civilized humans I would hope.

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