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Draw Muhammad contest Taxas!!! WHY?? (Page 3)

Arwen. IF-Sizzlerz
Arwen.
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 3:08am | IP Logged
Events like that Draw Mohammad Contest makes me want to make fun of Holocaust or some other equally sensitive issue... 

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clockworknerd

K.Universe. Goldie
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 10:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism



It will never come from within unless they are subjected to radically different circumstances. Why should they change? What is their incentive? Species evolve only if there's a radical change in their environment. Without any external challenge there is no need to adapt or evolve. Muslims are more radicalized community because they grow up in societies stringently controlled by clergy and politicians that have kept them bullied with threats of violence. Most of them have never been exposed to dissent beyond a certain limit.

Tyranny thrives by criminalizing mockery. And therefore the most potent weapon against any form of tyranny is mockery. Through repeated mockery you destroy the halo and awe that tyrants build around their personality. French have mastered that art of crude mockery. Hate speech is targeted against people, not ideas and figureheads.

There's no reason to believe that Christians suddenly had a change of heart and gave up their stance on blasphemy all by themselves. It was the regular onslaught of heretics that forced them to do so. When something becomes a regular sight the sense of outrage is automatically mellowed down. There will be initial cultural shocks and repercussions - we are going through that phase - but in the long run Muslims will learn to live with it.


That assessment should be made for short term and long term as well. If the long term rewards outweigh the short term risks, I don't find it a bad bargain at all.


No, I think they are capable of better. There's no reason to believe that Muslims are simply incapable of controlling their rage and turn into some wild beast the moment they lay their eyes upon some silly cartoon.


India has been traditionally cautious about not offending Muslims. We have been taking off books from shelves and TV shows off the air since last few decades. Has it helped Muslims or anyone? It has only made the fundamentalists more confident. And as a by product it has also helped radicalize Hindu community. Hindus have been convinced that the establishment is selectively pandering to Muslim bullies while expecting Hindus to modernise and secularise and tolerate blasphemy. This is the reason Hindus have been leaning towards the Right in such large numbers. The same thing will happen in the West when the Christians see that its ok to draw a cartoon of Jesus and Moses and poke fun at the pope but its apparently racist to draw Muhammad.





What limits the freedom of speech and expression relating to blasphemy is LAW. What keeps the relationship between organized religion and the nation at a distance is separation of church and state. So the "most potent weapon" against tyranny that you are speaking of is not mockery; it is enacting LAWS. It is banning blasphemy. It is separating religion and state.

There are anti-blasphemy laws in 32 countries most of which are Muslim-majority nations, such as those in the Middle East and North Africa. Is it absurd to think that they are not "subjected" to what is going on in the developed nations, what kind of laws are enacted and how the "church" keeps its distance from the state. It's not like they are cut-off from the rest of the world. So the suggestion to subject them to mockery is farcical.

87 nations have hate speech laws that covered defamation of religion and public expression of hate against a religious group. Even in those developed nations where there is a ban on blasphemy, there could be penalties or retaliation under blasphemous libel or vilification of religion or hate speech. Now, what constitutes blasphemy in Islam depends on the action, speech or behavior. So, those nations which have banned blasphemy still have to deal with libel.

You are assuming that all/most Muslims want to commit blasphemy but are afraid to do so only because of "tyrannical" rule. Some of them (about 3% of the total Muslim population) live in developed countries but are still devout. What these Muhammad cartoon contests are doing is ALSO offending these devout Muslims. What of their feelings? Collateral damage?

I haven't seen evidence to suggest that free speech laws were enacted in developed nations because "regular onslaught of heretics" forced them into free speech. I am sure you have your reasons to believe so.

In India, blasphemy is covered under hate speech. So, forget the tyrannical nations, even in India, there is no way people will mess with the law, even assuming they are itching to blaspheme.

Lastly, yes, species evolve. Into what is the question. Predators or prey.

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 11:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arwen.

Events like that Draw Mohammad Contest makes me want to make fun of Holocaust or some other equally sensitive issue... 


Reactions like this is what I am afraid of. That even rational folk (granted, you are a sample size of 1) might "change" for the worse.

To wit, I haven't come across one staunch Muslim, come out and say "these Muhammad cartoon drawing contests are an eye-opener. I love this free speech thing. I am itching to draw a cartoon of Muhammad myself", or something along those lines.


9tanki IF-Rockerz

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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 2:53pm | IP Logged
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BirdieNumNum

K.Universe. Goldie
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 3:39pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by 9tanki



Nobody is forcing them to see or belief what some cartoonist are drawing. Cartoonist have freedom to express themselves freely without reprisal.




True but nothing wrong in being considerate. Some may say they are not showing the same consideration towards followers of other religions, but that would make both groups get into a mudslinging war that would span centuries of history.


Originally posted by 9tanki



Charlie Hebdo incident and last incident in Texas shows that some coward think their religion is too weak to handle any kind of criticism.



How many times are we going to condemn those cowards?


Originally posted by 9tanki



What happened after Charlie Hebdo, people started "Everybody draw Muhammad day"
If radicals keep issuing fatwa or threatening for life for drawing cartoon, do you think non muslim will stop making fun of it ? Such cartoon contest everyday will keep rising everyday no matter whether muslims like it or not.



Yes, it became a vicious circle now. The ones drawing the Muhammad cartoons feel challenged  to show that they are not afraid. The ones attacking them feel challenged to show that they will go to any lengths to defend their religion.


-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 3:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by 9tanki

Originally posted by K.Universe.

Originally posted by 9tanki


Did anyone see the cartoon those cartoonist were drawing ? So, how can anyone conclude it was in a bad light or it was to instigate a group ? If something was offending then they could protest about it, and not necessarily come on the street with the gun. If large group of people think such catoons can agitate them or instigate them to do violence, then they need help and they need to see anger management counselor. .  

It's called aniconism. They don't believe in imagery of religious figures, prophets and divine beings. That is their faith.
By telling them not to get offended, you are as good as saying forget religion and forget God. Not gonna happen.

Originally posted by 9tanki


Its free speech and freedom of artistic that is always compromise when it comes to muslim. 
Even media is scared of this extremist and thats why they didnt showed cartoons of Muhammad either after Charlies Hebdo attack or recent Texas attack. Same media had no issue airing "Piss Christ" picture. This media is scared of extremist. Everytime anyone says something about Muhammad fatwas is issued to kill them. Anyways, Who is more extremist one who Is drawing cartoon of Muhammad or one who brings gun to kill innocent people ?


I didn't call the ones participating in or hosting these contests as extremists. I do think of them as instigators. As for those who kill innocent people, both of us already agreed on the extremism aspect of it.
Nobody is forcing them to see or belief what some cartoonist are drawing. Cartoonist have freedom to express themselves freely without reprisal. Charlie Hebdo incident and last incident in Texas shows that some coward think their religion is too weak to handle any kind of criticism. What happened after Charlie Hebdo, people started "Everybody draw Muhammad day"  

If radicals keep issuing fatwa or threatening for life for drawing cartoon, do you think non muslim will stop making fun of it ? Such cartoon contest everyday will keep rising everyday no matter whether muslims like it or not. Anyways aniconism is for muslim, which doesnt apply to non muslims. 


What about the moral ground on which this was executed? There is no verbal provocation which can justify killing and what  did those who staged the provocation intend to happen, did they not  foreseeable consequences? Its morally wrongdoing by giving offense, and you should not do it, and when you do, you're offensive and nothing more to it. The free speech in this case is irrelevant, cause her actions were morally culpable vs what she actually commit.
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Posted: 06 May 2015 at 4:49pm | IP Logged
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BirdieNumNum

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