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Draw Muhammad contest Taxas!!! WHY?? (Page 14)

..FallAndFly.. IF-Rockerz
..FallAndFly..
..FallAndFly..

Joined: 01 September 2012
Posts: 8767

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 5:24am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

"Stop Islam"? Seriously?
Ofcourse you wouldn't notice that LOL
Check the Link i send you earlier and see the pictures too.

Now don't tell me i made up the pictures and article as well cause thats just Stupid LOL

QuietlyLoud IF-Dazzler
QuietlyLoud
QuietlyLoud

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Posts: 2619

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 7:31am | IP Logged
I support the movement for the reason Rehanism mentioned earlier-Changing the response by making them get used to it.The process is called systematic desensitization.-a natural process in which human produce less emotional or physical response to a repeated stimulus.The result is the same when done on a individual or on masses.The result is also the same regardless of whether the stimulus is naturally occurring or brought about by an external force.
One can find loads of clinical and empirical evidence and case studies about it, even online.Plenty of social evidences as well.One such would be the gradual tolerance of homosexuality in the West.Same-sex couples kissing would have been a downright outrageous sight some years ago.Now,not so much.The evolution of Christianity from perhaps the most violent religion in the past to its more tolerant form is another one.There was a time when slight offenses could get one crucified or burned at stake.Even Galileo came close to it merely for supporting Copernican heliocentrism.Now Dan Brown can write Jesus Christ is not God and had secret affair with Mary Magdalene without getting shot.What has changed? The constant and gradual exposure to opposing ideals and counter beliefs gradually made people more comfortable with it.The intention is to lessen the response and thereby making it more favourable to the society, not a reversal of ideals.To a Christian, what Dan Brown has written could still be unpardonable,but not provocative enough to resort to violence in the name of it.After all,a provocation is only as powerful as the response it generates.

Cartoons of Muhammad too will go the same way.Muslims badly need desensitization.Need evidence?Switch on Al Jazeera or BBC Middleast news,you will find that in plenty.After all,who needs it more than those who kills someone just because he or she drew a picture that offended them?

To me this is not about Free speech vs hate speech.That's something which has different interpretations in different places,it seems.People are free to draw lines where ever they want.Not reliable enough to take a stand.I'm only interested in the intentions and possible outcomes.Since Pamela Geller is a known anti-Islamic activist,I doubt whether the organizers have any good intentions in mind.More likely,they are just mocking the religion.
However,regardless of whether the organizers are aware of it or not,such movements can gradually make Islam a more liberal and peaceful religion.I support it for that possible outcome.
 


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K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posted: 07 June 2015 at 12:24pm | IP Logged
QL, you may have a point here. I am getting systematically desensitized to these psychoanalytic, behavioral therapy advancing esoteric posts so much so that I have very little resolve left now to "fight back" anymore. It is working!

I would like to think that "free speech" laws are what led to "opposing ideals and counter beliefs" to come to the fore but what do I know?!

So, in your systematic desensitizing therapy, if as a first step we draw cartoons of Muhammad, what's the next step that you are proposing as a coping mechanism? Relaxation techniques? Isn't this a 3 step process by the way?

This "therapy" is what led to people accepting homosexuals? Or Christians to gradually turn into broadminded individuals? Do you realize these two are extraordinary claims with nary an evidence? How did you make the jump from "treating a guy having a phobia or two" to "curing masses" employing this technique?

What next? Mass hypnosis?


krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

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Posts: 14170

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 8:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ..FallAndFly..

Originally posted by krystal_watz

"Stop Islam"? Seriously?
Ofcourse you wouldn't notice that LOL
Check the Link i send you earlier and see the pictures too.

Now don't tell me i made up the pictures and article as well cause thats just Stupid LOL






If that's the case, then its xenophobic beyond all doubt. Though I still won't put it in the category of "hate speech" as I would something like "Kill All Muslims" or "Wipe out Moslems".


krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
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Posts: 14170

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
Mr. K, I think you're viewing the term "de-sensitisation" in water-tight definitive terms. Not every terminology that's tied to psychoanalysis or psychiatry needs to be viewed through a strictly technical lens.

A lay example in favour of this would suffice: A decade earlier, people would balk at any mention of homosexuality. Post the success of the movie "Dostana" which eased the idea into the minds of the masses through a hunorous take, the topic gradually evolved into non-taboo for discussion.

Though you're correct on one point. The "Rammohan approach" (re-defining the texts to nullify any excuse in favour of Sati) is preferable to the "Young Bengal" one of publicly making a show of eating beef and desecrating the Geeta. But the question is, does the Orthodox Islamic worldview provide for even minimal "easing space"?
K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posts: 2061

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 10:05pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz



A lay example in favour of this would suffice: A decade earlier, people would balk at any mention of homosexuality. Post the success of the movie "Dostana" which eased the idea into the minds of the masses through a hunorous take, the topic gradually evolved into non-taboo for discussion.



I think I made a point earlier in the thread that change has to come from within and your above point works to my advantage. Prior to Dostana, Hollywood made dozens of movies on that concept but if Dostana worked (I am not sure it did but let's assume for a minute that it did, for arguments sake) for Indians because an Indian made it, then it makes sense to think that when a Muslim or a group of Muslims start satirizing their religious figures and books, or better yet, bring about free speech laws, then it wold have make a real impact in their part of the world, than when a foreigner, worse a Jew or a Christian, does it.

An Indian criticizing India would be more palatable to Indians than, say, an American or an NRI criticizing India, you would agree.

Originally posted by krystal_watz



Though you're correct on one point. The "Rammohan approach" (re-defining the texts to nullify any excuse in favour of Sati) is preferable to the "Young Bengal" one of publicly making a show of eating beef and desecrating the Geeta.




I don't know who or what this young Bengali is but If someone were to desecrate Bhagavad Gita, I may forget that I am a law-abiding citizen, and a responsible family man :)

krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
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Posts: 14170

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 10:35pm | IP Logged
On "change from within":

Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultana, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Washiqur Rahman are a few names to mention. What they did, and what was done unto them.
K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

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Posts: 2061

Posted: 07 June 2015 at 11:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

On "change from within":

Taslima Nasreen, Salman Rushdie, Wafa Sultana, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Washiqur Rahman are a few names to mention. What they did, and what was done unto them.




Well, change is not easy, especially in the Muslim world, especially in those that have authoritarian regimes. A couple of outspoken individuals here and there that one could count on fingers simply wouldn't do.  They need to have demonstrations, boycotts, strikes, petitions, civil disobedience, whatever it takes to bring about a social change. They need to hold themselves accountable for the state they are in. If it is a medieval book that is responsible for their overall "backwardness", then it is they who should shun medieval practices that are making them regressive. The burden is on them. If they are too impotent to rebel, then no amount of outside "support" will help; definitely not taunts.

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