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Draw Muhammad contest Taxas!!! WHY?? (Page 11)

krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 13934

Posted: 05 June 2015 at 11:39pm | IP Logged
I see your point, Mr. K. The Texas contest definitely qualifies as a form of hate speech when viewed through the lens of the U.S. legal definition. But under a more generic, dictionary definition of the term, hate speech means speech intended to defame or incite violence against a particular religious/ethnic group.
Mockery/parody of religion/religious practises does not come within the gambit of "hate speech" as per this definition.




Edited by krystal_watz - 06 June 2015 at 12:06am

K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
K.Universe.

Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2064

Posted: 06 June 2015 at 2:18am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz



I see your point, Mr. K. The Texas contest definitely qualifies as a form of hate speech when viewed through the lens of the U.S. legal definition. But under a more generic, dictionary definition of the term, hate speech means speech intended to defame or incite violence against a particular religious/ethnic group.
Mockery/parody of religion/religious practises does not come within the gambit of "hate speech" as per this definition.





Mockery to one is desecration to another so if we set aside the technical jargon surrounding free speech and hate speech for a minute, deep down the debate is truly about only one thing - should a person continue to "express" himself/herself even when the person is cognizant of the fact that his/her "expression" might greatly offend one or more people.

Before answering the question, please bear in mind that none of us are in a position to preach to anyone that anger is not justified here; it's not like any of us have conquered the Arishadvargas so we just have to assume that some people are bound to be enraged for "right" or "wrong" reasons.

I am not convinced that these cartoon drawing contests, these "piss Christs" etc., are even remotely capable of promoting any kind of meaningful dialogue/debate whatsoever. IMO, the ones indulging in these are either atheists or practicers of "rival" religious members intent on fomenting trouble in the garb of free speech.


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..FallAndFly..

..FallAndFly.. IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 06 June 2015 at 2:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by krystal_watz

I your point, Mr. K. The Texas contest finitely qualifies as a form of hate speech when viewed through the lens of the U.S. legal definition. But under a more generic, dictionary definition of the term, hate speech means speech intended to defame or incite violence against a particular religious/ethnic group.
Mockery/parody of religion/religious practises does not come within the gambit of "hate speech" as per this definition.


Are you serious?
The Cartoons they made definitely defame our religion!
They insult the person We Love and look up to with disgusting Slangs in those Cartoons,
This is Hate speech/Ragging/Bullying under any law and is against any Human ethics.
Rehanism IF-Dazzler
Rehanism
Rehanism

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Posted: 06 June 2015 at 8:57am | IP Logged
Originally posted by K.Universe.


To quote verbatim the definition in the link, Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women.



This is the key factor that sets hate speech apart from free speech. The target is a group of people. Any speech that incites violence or hatred against a group of people is rightly hate speech. Calling for attacks or excommunication of Muslims would rightly be hate speech. But ideas, ideologies and symbols are not living beings. They do not deserve the immunity from assault that human beings do. Therefore denigration of beliefs or symbols can't be hate speech regardless of how crude they are. Offense is subjective. But laws should be uniform.

I am deeply offended by the Islamic position regarding non-believers. The Quran is outright abusive and spiteful against the non-believers; its full of graphic details of torture that awaits the non-believers and I am offended by the thought that millions of children around the world are subjected to such bigoted and scary ideas. The Christian belief that every child is a sinner by birth and deserves to suffer in hell for eternity unless he accepts Jesus is another offensive belief to me. But I still think Muslims and Christians should be free to have such twisted and morally abhorrent beliefs and preach them as well.

If we are really sincere about banning hate speech, I am afraid the first victims would be these 'Holy' books.

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..FallAndFly.. IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 06 June 2015 at 9:26am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Originally posted by K.Universe.


To quote verbatim the definition in the link, Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. <font color="#0000FF">Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups </font>and other discrete minorities or to women.



<font size="3" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">This is the key factor that sets hate speech apart from free speech. The target is a group of people. Any speech that incites violence or hatred against a group of people is rightly hate speech. Calling for attacks or excommunication of Muslims would rightly be hate speech. But ideas, ideologies and symbols are not living beings. They do not deserve the immunity from assault that human beings do. Therefore denigration of beliefs or symbols can't be hate speech regardless of how crude they are. Offense is subjective. But laws should be uniform.

I am deeply offended by the Islamic position regarding non-believers. The Quran is outright abusive and spiteful against the non-believers; its full of graphic details of torture that awaits the non-believers and I am offended by the thought that millions of children around the world are subjected to such bigoted and scary ideas. The Christian belief that every child is a sinner by birth and deserves to suffer in hell for eternity unless he accepts Jesus is another offensive belief to me. But I still think Muslims and Christians should be free to have such twisted and morally abhorrent beliefs and preach them as well.

If we are really sincere about banning hate speech, I am afraid the first victims would be these 'Holy' books.</font>

What happens to non-believers afterlife isn't in our hands!
They were given a certain time to understand Everything and were given several signs as well but most of them ignored it...so if they are punished for that what can Muslims Or Christians do?
We believe in these beliefs and we cant twist our religion or Christianity to satisfy others.
But the thing is people shouldn't be bothered because you dont believe in that and neither do we people go on and rub it in your faces that you are wrong or pathetic or going to hell.
if anyone does it,THEY ARE WRONG,because in Surah Kafirun it Says to tell the non-believers that let us practice our religion and you practice yours.I think that explains what Islam wants from us Muslims.

By your opinion if a Bunch of Kids Draw a Perticular awkward Kids's humiliating drawing on their classroom's wall just for the 'fun' of it then it shouldn't be Ragging?
Because they didn't physically hurt him,pass Coments at him just used "Idea and Symbols" theory means they are innocent?
Then you should know many kids in U.S are finding Suicide as their only relief from those 'innocent'
People..

I'm am not saying we will attempt suicide for that but what is wrong is wrong and it should be stopped rather than encouraged with the excuse of Religions.
tasha001 Goldie
tasha001
tasha001

Joined: 04 April 2015
Posts: 1207

Posted: 06 June 2015 at 9:44am | IP Logged
Okay so let me put my point forward
There it isn't about freedom of speech or anything but it's about someone sentiment attached to their religion.

Actually even from the very start it was consider that Muslim or Islam support violence
It's Wrong Prejudice
That Islam Ever Support Violence

If that's the question of you people than
No

And even I am not saying that other religion not support peace
They all support Peace
Actualy no religion support violence.

But why we always relate terrorism with islam ??

But if terrorist are Muslim then they should also be knowing that Islam prohibit violence!

And coming to that topic

Like why they have to choose that topic
Did muslim in any way try to disgrace someone else religion??

When we don't try to humiliate anyone else religion then in no way anyone have right to target
Our religion & our Prophet

Let's take example if someone hurt a christian belief then what they suppose to do??

Not attack but atleast protect their religion and their belief.

And I in no way saying that Terrorist are Muslim

Because what I learnt in my religion is that
Violence is Prohibited

Edited by tasha001 - 06 June 2015 at 9:45am
K.Universe. Goldie
K.Universe.
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Joined: 02 September 2012
Posts: 2064

Posted: 06 June 2015 at 11:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism



This is the key factor that sets hate speech apart from free speech. The target is a group of people. Any speech that incites violence or hatred against a group of people is rightly hate speech. Calling for attacks or excommunication of Muslims would rightly be hate speech. But ideas, ideologies and symbols are not living beings. They do not deserve the immunity from assault that human beings do. Therefore denigration of beliefs or symbols can't be hate speech regardless of how crude they are. Offense is subjective. But laws should be uniform.


I think you are looking at only one form of hate speech. If party A incites violence against party B it is hate speech as much as if party A practices a form of expression that provokes violence in party B.Here, I don't see Party B as threatening party A, I see party B as some entity who got provoked unnecessarily.

Ideas, ideologies, symbols, books and idols are an integral part of living beings and thus an assault on them may still be construed as an assault on living beings. If the question is, who is hurt in the process of assaulting "
Ideas, ideologies, symbols, books and idols" , then I think we are reducing human pain only to the physical.

I am deeply offended by the Islamic position regarding non-believers. The Quran is outright abusive and spiteful against the non-believers; its full of graphic details of torture that awaits the non-believers and I am offended by the thought that millions of children around the world are subjected to such bigoted and scary ideas. The Christian belief that every child is a sinner by birth and deserves to suffer in hell for eternity unless he accepts Jesus is another offensive belief to me. But I still think Muslims and Christians should be free to have such twisted and morally abhorrent beliefs and preach them as well.

There is no moratorium on beliefs, even if they are stupid and irrational. If they are acting on those beliefs, like they are doing in Syria or Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan, and harming others in the process, then other countries should step in.


If we are really sincere about banning hate speech, I am afraid the first victims would be these 'Holy' books.


Perhaps. But I would like to see the debunking of these holy books to happen via science, not "art". Till date, if "art" has done anything viable in regards to turning the irrational to rational, I would like to know.




krystal_watz IF-Sizzlerz
krystal_watz
krystal_watz

Joined: 10 August 2009
Posts: 13934

Posted: 06 June 2015 at 11:46am | IP Logged
FallandFly: You're confusing between "person" and "idea". Humiliating a person (the example you provided about a group of kids making fun of a lone kid) is considered bullying. But parodying or criticising an IDEA (which Islam or any other religion is) is not.

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