Mahakumbh 77-80: Distorting mirrors - Page 6

Originally posted by: happychappy

Excellent post, Sruthi...👏

Never looked at MB from so deeply feminist a perspective. You are right about all the 'bali' but Uttara's wedding - was it not engineered by Krishna? Knowing well that she would be widowed so young.,.😕 That would also qualify as a sacrifice would it not?!

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@Shanti last part is a rant that prakriti Vs Purush. Don't take it seriously. But in the same post I have clearly said it was a battle of logic and conscience. Each Garud has to choose conscience or logic. it cannot be forced on them. Yes for Rudra humanity is important and Dansh said Rudra wont hurt woman. That is because of the lineage he has. In his family Naari Pooja is being done. Woman are respected unlike Veshes, Greysons or Nagas where woman are send to be a bali. Veshes send Maya, Greyson use Kat and now Nagas have sent Leela. Power of Veshes and Greyson is already with Garuds, power of Nagas needs to be taken away. Leela has to to come to Garud camp. Unlike Maya and Kat, Leela cannot be easily convinced. She wants to see action, affirmative action this is the camp where she will be respected unlike her own clan which is using her. Whole Nag bali business is for that conviction Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

@seedibaat thank you for beautifully explaining another aspect of MB. Yes I agree to you that there were different accepted way of getting a heir which had to be used in the absence of a legal heir. I told right my feminist mind's rant on the bali part. I actually hate the word bali and don't believe you get anything by doing bali. Bali also has to be free will if it has to yield result for the dharma not the forced one like the Garuds are telling.  Yes I will come to the responsibility of Prakriti or woman for getting love and respect. If you look at my first post in this thread ( Thanks to you for driving my thoughts in this direction of Triveni Sangamam connected with Knowledge, Power and wealth) I have covered the messages in the birth of Krishna and his message in the Kurushetra war. That is only one part of it. Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago

Originally posted by: seedhibaat

Shruti , I love how passionately you write about Mahabharat.😊

You have mentioned about the Bali and how a woman are easy target. In regards to Mahabharat

i have a different angle to it. Satyavati's adamance led to a real Kuruvanshi' Devavrat' to turn to Bhishma. He is the last legitimate Kuru DNA in him who fought the war for a KURU throne. ideally Kuru Vansh stops at Devavrat. 

When Amba refused to marry Vichitravirya she was allowed to leave. She took revenge later. 

Dhritarashtra and Pandu are called KURU Vanshi only because of their mothers. NO kuru DNA in them. They are not known by their father's Vansh who is Vyas Muni. It makes me think sperm donation was a legal way of having progeny and was a accepted way which a Royal family sitting on throne used. Rajmata Satyavati could propose this.  

Kunti too has 4 sons from different /deities /fathers and still three of them are Accepted as Kuru. So is true for Madri sons. It makes me think there was a definite rules /laws for how to get a heir to the throne.  If all those ladies are from different Royal families I am sure they are aware of their rights, So I wont be calling them' bali ' . 

All the so called Kuru in Kurukshetra except Bhishma are not real Kuru . Bali of all those ladies is not something I have in mind. And if we think of your theory then because of ambition of some ladies led to a war which took lot of Bali. 

I will call it Neeyati, All so called Kuru vanshi born after Devavrat were male child. (except Dushhala)😊( I guess Vyas Muni didnt bother messing with women after this.) 

I would go ahead and say there was enough knowledge of IVF too. If 100 kaurav are born it is possible to have many  successful IVFs and surrogate mothers. There is a mention that Kauravs are born from Ghrutkumbh (pot of  Ghee) which could be something resembling a test tube. Since lot of references are lost, currently  there are no concrete evidence.

Of couse this is my interpretation of events. I decided to put it here as I can see you have an avid interest in Mahabharat.😊

Its such a shame all the knowledge is lost over the period. 😡

Brilliant !!! I thought I know Maha Bharat 😆 - There is so much to it. I loved this angle.

Originally posted by: seedhibaat

Shruti , I love how passionately you write about Mahabharat.😊

You have mentioned about the Bali and how a woman are easy target. In regards to Mahabharat

i have a different angle to it. Satyavati's adamance led to a real Kuruvanshi' Devavrat' to turn to Bhishma. He is the last legitimate Kuru DNA in him who fought the war for a KURU throne. ideally Kuru Vansh stops at Devavrat. 

When Amba refused to marry Vichitravirya she was allowed to leave. She took revenge later. 

Dhritarashtra and Pandu are called KURU Vanshi only because of their mothers. NO kuru DNA in them. They are not known by their father's Vansh who is Vyas Muni. It makes me think sperm donation was a legal way of having progeny and was a accepted way which a Royal family sitting on throne used. Rajmata Satyavati could propose this.  

Kunti too has 4 sons from different /deities /fathers and still three of them are Accepted as Kuru. So is true for Madri sons. It makes me think there was a definite rules /laws for how to get a heir to the throne.  If all those ladies are from different Royal families I am sure they are aware of their rights, So I wont be calling them' bali ' . 

All the so called Kuru in Kurukshetra except Bhishma are not real Kuru . Bali of all those ladies is not something I have in mind. And if we think of your theory then because of ambition of some ladies led to a war which took lot of Bali. 

I will call it Neeyati, All so called Kuru vanshi born after Devavrat were male child. (except Dushhala)😊( I guess Vyas Muni didnt bother messing with women after this.) 

I would go ahead and say there was enough knowledge of IVF too. If 100 kaurav are born it is possible to have many  successful IVFs and surrogate mothers. There is a mention that Kauravs are born from Ghrutkumbh (pot of  Ghee) which could be something resembling a test tube. Since lot of references are lost, currently  there are no concrete evidence.

Of couse this is my interpretation of events. I decided to put it here as I can see you have an avid interest in Mahabharat.😊

Its such a shame all the knowledge is lost over the period. 😡

Exactly Misti. When a man or Rajmata approved a child can be conceived outside the marriage for taking forward the legacy it was fine.

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

Exactly Misti. When a man or Rajmata approved a child can be conceived outside the marriage for taking forward the legacy it was fine.

That's why even sharing of Draupadi by five men was accepted. Because it was done to guard their mother's word.

 

But if the woman choose to have a child outside the marriage then that child was not accepted by the society. The thing that happened with Karna. If Kunti had to accept him she had to face social stigma and she was not willing for it. Again it all boils down to a woman's choice and also the fact that the woman themselves didn't question such norms till Panchali raised the question in the hall of dice.

Originally posted by: seedhibaat

Thanks Mishti, Shruti and JayaksO2

Thanks for reading my views, I thought there are readers and thinkers on this forum so lets express views here! Nice to see this discussion interactive and informative. 

The process of having child for the Vansh or heir to the kingdom is called' Niyog'. Its legal and aceeptable form then and had very strict rules for it.  The woman should agree for this way of having a child. A man can exercise Niyog only 3 times in his lifetime. There were  very clear rules about it.The reason such system ran and was accepted because I guess the rules were not violated as much in that era.

Shruti I agree with your view, one gets answers to many questions in life in Geeta or some or the other plots of mahabharat. I feel one should be destined to read, think and impliment teachings of Mahabharat. We should learn to adapt the teachings for this era. 

I always feel one thing which holds good in every Yug  is 'Samay sabse balwan hai'

Thanks again

Seedhibhat - This is very informative 😃 - You write extremely well 👏 -  Samay sabse balwan hai indeed. But Is there any such thing called as samay ? Come to think of it - Is Kalam or times not a  creation of mankind ? In the ever expanding cosmos, what is significance of time ?

Yes Seedibaat Samay sbse balwan hai. That is why Lord Krishna stressed on action that too at the right time.