Veil Off........and i will hear you out

Posted: 17 years ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5411954.stm

I personally don't mind if a woman decides to wear the veil. I can see were a muslim woman who wears the veil may feel ofended in someone asks for them to remove it, but Jack Straw did actually state that 'its a request'. What i don't understand is that why can't he commute with an individual who wears the veil? How can it be a communication barrier? Surely each individual should be respected for its diversity. UK....a tolerant mulicultural society?

Posted: 17 years ago
The news hit the headlines, as Jack Straw has suggested women wearing veils which cover the face can make relations between communities more difficult, and revealed that he asks women visiting his constituency surgery to consider removing them. The views were varied overall as it isn't actually stated in the Quran to wear the veil but there has been contradictions on this view.

"I suppose it's their religion and that's what they feel they have to wear.

So for that reason it's a little bit strong to say they should take it off.

Everyone should be allowed to follow their own religion."


"I think that he doesn't have anything to say about this because really it's up to the Muslim women, and I respect that.

"They are human beings following their religion. They are respecting God and that is why they are doing that. He (Jack Straw) is just a man, like all of us, so I don't think he can argue with that."


I think he's wrong, because a woman wearing a niqab is not allowed to show her face to anyone but her husband, maybe her uncle, and just her children.

Not even all other family members can see her face. Not many woman do wear this. I wear a hijab, my face is open so it's not a problem for me.

"But it's not a problem for communication - he needs to stop and listen as this is the main thing."

Some of the thoughts are highlighted above
Posted: 17 years ago
ermm..you guys might call me racist if i say that yes i agree with him
because yes i do, another lady of law was involed saying that she deals with such cases where she doesn't allow any of her visitors to wear a veil..
there is a reason for this..the comment that was made is NOT baseless..
the job that the lady deals with is a job that requires a lot of understanding and she said that this understanding between the client and the professional has a lot to do with facial expressions and yes its true!
how can you interview someone when you dont know how they are reacting to your questions, are they nervous, scared or even confident?! 😕 and it shows a lot like if your capable to do the job or not..
and remember please..jack straw 'requested', he did NOT order 😉
although i do understand the other side of the story and the reason why they wear it but jack straw says he will provide a lady trabslator or something so that they do not feel uncomfortable 😉
so overall i think he is right..i hope you guys dont take offence, its just what i thought and they are kinda right after all they are thinking from a professional view point even though yes, it may be necessary to think froma religious view point too..
and btw..yes..in east london..it is full of asians! believe me..and mostly muslims.. 😊 i dont know if you;ve heard of it but 'green street' has a lot of multi-cultural people of which i;d say 8/10 wear a niqab 😕 and yes, England is a multi-cultural country..

Tina xx
Posted: 17 years ago
Good points groovychick, but i don't think it is a communication barrier to talk to someone wearing a veil. I thought Jack Straw was just trying make the relationships between the ethnic minorities groups better. I don't know anyone personally who wears the niqab but if they choose to i would respect that because thats what the UK is about a tolerant multicultural society.

But my views are beggining to change now, he is starting to lose his grip on the white community. Comments that he made just incited racial hatred. He may have had a valid point but i believe in his own selfish intentions.

Yes, Groovychick we are a multicultural society, but the question is are we all tolerant of other races, cultures or religions?
Posted: 17 years ago
Well I think anyone should be able to wear whatever they want as per their religious belief. But if it is a "request" it should be treated like one. People already have a choice to wear it or not. He is not proposing any law or forcing anyone to change their attire. I would just read news and do what i want to.

About communication with veil or hijab you can always see face and expression. it is only when one is wearing "burqa" or "niqab" that i understand it could be hard to communicate for some. but with hijab or veil i think one can easily see their face..not sure why this fuss then.
Posted: 17 years ago
Jack Straw makes perfect sense to me.

If you look at the essay on the last page of Time Magazine (Oct 16), written by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, she says "It is time to speak out against this objectionable garment and face down the obscurantists who endlessly bait and intimidate the state by making demands that violate its fundamental principles. That they have brainwashed young women, born free, to seek self-subjugation breaks my heart. Trained creatures often choose to stay in their cages even when released. I don't call that a choice.

I would not propose that Muslim women should be stopped from wearing what they choose as they walk down the street, although to be sure, there are practical problems with the niqab. I have seen Muslim women who have been appallingly beaten and forced to wear it to keep their wounds hidden. Veiled women cannot eat in restaurants, swim in the sea or smile at their babies in parks. But the most important reason for opposing the veil is one of principle. So long as it ensures genuinely equal standards for all, a liberal nation has no obligation to extend its liberalism to condone the most illiberal practices. State institutions as well as private companies should have the right to stipulate that a person whose face cannot be seen need not be served. That would not discriminate against Muslims; it would for example also affect men whose faces were obscured by motorcycle helmets. The principle expressed in other words, would not be anti-Muslim, but one in favour of communication."
Posted: 17 years ago
The hidden message in Mr. Straw's humble request is very clear, imo. For example, Muslim female athlets have been complaining about physical, social, and mental restrictions applied to them for participating in world sports events. It's certainly difficult for them to take part in certain sports like swimming etc. with such strict religious dressing requirements. Straw is not only requesting 'Remove full veils', he is reassuring full govt. support for any of such actions. He is indirectly addressing the religious militia to stay away from imposing such stone-age customs.

Posted: 17 years ago
Punjini, you seem to be genralising on how women are oppressed who wear the niqab. Many women do choose to wear the niqab do live fullfilling lives. Yes! Is that life is for women in singapore who choose to wear the niqab. Your views were quiet biased and you have sterotyped quiet alot. I myself believe that practising your religion is a personal choice and others shouldn't have the right ti intrevene. You haven't met too many different beings from yourself, yes i can see that quiet clearly.
Posted: 17 years ago
Thoughts of a British Muslim Woman:

Why Muslim women should thank Straw
Saira Khan

The veil is not a religious obligation — it is a symbol of the subjugation by men of their wives and daughters


MY PARENTS moved here from Kashmir in the 1960s. They brought with them their faith and their traditions. But they also arrived with an understanding that they were starting a new life in a country where Islam was not the main religion.
My mother has always worn traditional Kashmiri clothes — the salwaar kameez, a long tunic worn over trousers, and the chador, which is like a pashmina worn round the neck or over the hair. But no one in my immediate family — here or in Kashmir — covers their face with a nikab (veil). As a child I wore the salwaar kameez at home — and at school a typical English school uniform. My parents never felt that the uniform compromised my faith; the important thing was that I would fit in so that I could take advantage of all the opportunities school offered. I was the hockey team captain and took part in county athletics: how could I have done all of this wearing salwaar kameez, let alone a veil?



My mother has worked all her life and adapted her ways and dress at work. For ten years she operated heavy machinery and could not wear her chador because of the risk of it becoming caught in the machinery. Without making any fuss she removed her scarf at work and put it back on when she clocked out. My mother is still very much a traditional Muslim woman, but having lived in this country for 40 years she has learnt to embrace British culture — for example, she jogs in a tracksuit and swims in a normal swimming costume to help to alleviate her arthritis.

Some Muslims would criticise the way my mother and I dress. They believe that there is only one way to practise Islam and express your beliefs, forgetting that the Muslim faith is interpreted in different ways in different places and that there are distinct cultures and styles of dress in Muslim countries stretching from Morocco to Indonesia. But it is not a requirement of the Koran for women to wear the veil.

The growing number of women veiling their faces in Britain is a sign of radicalisation. I was disturbed when, after my first year at university in 1988, I discovered to my surprise that some of my fellow students had turned very religious and had taken to wearing the jilbab (a long, flowing gown covering all the body except hands and face), which they had never worn before and which was not the dress code of their mothers. They had joined the college's Islamic Society, which preached that women were not considered proper Muslims unless they adopted such strict dress codes. After that, I never really had anything in common with them.

It is an extreme practice. It is never right for a woman to hide behind a veil and shut herself off from people in the community. But it is particularly wrong in Britain, where it alien to the mainstream culture for someone to walk around wearing a mask. The veil restricts women, it stops them achieving their full potential in all areas of their life and it stops them communicating. It sends out a clear message: "I do not want to be part of your society."

Some Muslim women say that it is their choice to wear it; I don't agree. Why would any woman living in a tolerant country freely choose to wear such a restrictive garment? What these women are really saying is that they adopt the veil because they believe that they should have less freedom than men, and that if they did not wear the veil men would not be accountable for their uncontrollable urges — so women must cover-up so as not to tempt men. What kind of a message does that send to women?

But a lot of women are not free to choose. Girls as young as three or four are wearing the hijab to school — that is not a freely made choice. Girls under 16 should certainly not have to wear it to school. And behind the closed doors of some Muslim houses, women are told to wear the hijab and the veil. These are the girls that are hidden away, they are not allowed to go to universities, they have little choice in who they marry, in many cases they are kept down by the threat of violence.

So for women such as them it was absolutely right for Jack Straw to raise this issue. Nobody should feel threatened by his comments; after all, the debate about veils has been raging in the Islamic community for many years. To argue that non-Muslims have no right to discuss it merely reinforces the idea that Muslims are not part of a wider society. It also suggests, wrongly, that wearing the veil affects only Muslims. Non-Muslims have to deal with women wearing a veil, so why shouldn't their feelings be taken into consideration? I would find it impossible to deal with any veiled woman because it goes so deeply against my own values and basic human instincts. How can you develop any kind of a social relationship with someone who has shut themselves away from the rest of the world?

And if we can't have a debate about the veil without a vocal minority of Muslims crying "Islamophobia", how will we face other issues, such as domestic violence, forced marriages, sexual abuse and child abuse that are rife in the Muslim community? These are not uniquely Muslim problems but, unlike other communities, they are never openly debated. It is children and women who suffer as a result.

Many moderate Muslim women in Britain will welcome Mr Straw's comments. This is an opportunity for them to say: "I don't wear the veil but I am a Muslim." If I had been forced to wear a veil I would certainly not be writing this article — I would not have the friends I have, I would not have been able to run a marathon or become an aerobics teacher or set up a business.

This is my message to British Muslim women — if you want your daughters to take advantage of all the opportunities that Britain has to offer, do not encourage them to wear the veil. We must unite against the radical Muslim men who would love women to be hidden, unseen and unheard.

I was able to take advantage of what Britain has got to offer and I hope Mr Straw's comments will help more Muslim women to do the same. But my argument with those Muslims who would only be happy in a Talebanised society, who turn their face against integration, is this: "If you don't like living here and don't want to integrate, then what the hell are you doing here? Why don't you just go and live in an Islamic country?"

Saira Khans Views

It is true that it isn't the norm in the UK to be wearing the niqab, but many other aspects of lifestyle and culture aren't part of the originated british norms, thats what makes us so diverse, its the religion and culture that should be valued
Posted: 17 years ago

Originally posted by zoya786uk


Punjini, you seem to be genralising on how women are oppressed who wear the niqab. Many women do choose to wear the niqab do live fullfilling lives. Yes! Is that life is for women in singapore who choose to wear the niqab. Your views were quiet biased and you have sterotyped quiet alot. I myself believe that practising your religion is a personal choice and others shouldn't have the right ti intrevene. You haven't met too many different beings from yourself, yes i can see that quiet clearly.

To zoya786uk or any one else interetsed, here is where you can read the whole article that punjini quoted in part.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901 061016-1543877,00.html

In fact, here is more on Yasmin Alibhai-Brown.  

http://www.alibhai-brown.com/about.php

 

 

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