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Arvind Kejriwal and AAP (Page 9)

Sanaya-hi-Rani IF-Rockerz
Sanaya-hi-Rani
Sanaya-hi-Rani

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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 3:32am | IP Logged
Originally posted by mr.ass

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by mr.ass

bjp would have got about 28% of the votes, congress 22% because of minority votes.  bjp would have got about 210 seats and congress about 135. now with aap,

bjp 25%

aap 9%

congress 16%

now bjp will get about 250 - 270 seats thanks to aap.


I'm confused how is 28% = 210 seats but 25% = 250-270 seats?




simple, because thanks to aap, in many seats where the congress got 1st position by a few thousand/ ten thousand votes, aap will eat into their votes and bjp will win seats by small margins.

in many seats, bjp will get say 2,00,000 votes, cong will get 1,80,000 votes and aap will get abt 90,000 votes.
Exactly..just look at the electoral maths..
A 28 VS 22 is a 6% difference which can mount to difference of say 75 seats as pointed out by Mr.ass
Now a difference of 9% (25VS16) would increase the difference in favour of the BJP!

return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 8:17am | IP Logged

@Krystal and Genie

 

I accept that AAP may have acted with all good intentions to serve the people. However, it seems that AAP is arbitrarily defining who is the Aam Aadmi. In my opinion majority of the police force is also an Aam Aadmi. They aren't the lawmakers or people in power. They are the law keepers, answerable to people in power.

 

The law minister conducted illegal raids, which I'll grant may have been done with good intentions. But then he wanted suspension of officers who didn't comply with him. The AAP immediately assumed the cops did so to protect criminals. Could it possibly be that the cops were just hesitant to wholeheartedly comply with a raid that was illegal? Perhaps the cops were dirty. But perhaps it is possible they were just following the rules of law. Perhaps they have been covering up crime. But perhaps lack of evidence or pressure from higher officials is preventing them from taking action. The cops who were taken on the raids may not even be the cops who received the complaints and had the burden of investigation.

 

As a common government employee, I think cops should have right to their daily livelihood. I think they also deserve innocent until proven guilty. If they are to be suspended or fired, it should be after proper investigation that proves they did something wrong. Instead the AAP holds a dharna demanding immediate suspension without waiting for investigation. How is that any different from any other party that expects all govt. employees to toss the rulebook out and dance to their tunes? How is that different from any other party that doesn't give a damn about the rights of aam admi employees?

 

@Angie

 

There is indeed a major conflict of interests in who gets to control the police force in Delhi. I can see both the CM and the Union have valid reasons for retaining control. I hope that for the good of the people, eventually a compromise can be reached. I was researching the law and order in District of Columbia which is slightly similar. It is a federal district and not a complete state. Looks like there are dual systems there - the US Marshalls directly under command of the president and metropolitan police department under command of the Mayor of DC. Perhaps Delhi can have similar dual layered systems.

Rehanism IF-Dazzler
Rehanism
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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 8:45am | IP Logged
Apparently AAP and its brand of simpletons take the term 'Public Servant' quite literally. As per them if you are a 'Public Servant', you are answerable directly to the Janta and you must act as per their orders and diktats and if you refuse you are automatically corrupt and inept.


punk666 Newbie
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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 9:29am | IP Logged
The latest dharna might have begain the downfall of aap. Not sure how long people will keep their trust in them.
heeheehee Groupbie
heeheehee
heeheehee

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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 10:55am | IP Logged

An interesting article by a rtrd. IAS officer..
hillpost.in/2014/01/kejriwals-delhi-dharna-this-is-not-anarchy-mr-home-minister-this-is-revolution/97741/

Edited by heeheehee - 06 February 2014 at 8:37am
Sanaya-hi-Rani IF-Rockerz
Sanaya-hi-Rani
Sanaya-hi-Rani

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Posts: 6074

Posted: 22 January 2014 at 11:45am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Rehanism

Apparently AAP and its brand of simpletons take the term 'Public Servant' quite literally. As per them if you are a 'Public Servant', you are answerable directly to the Janta and you must act as per their orders and diktats and if you refuse you are automatically corrupt and inept.


That is not the problem but the problem is how do you define the "aam aadmi"..OR how do you take instructions from them, the only plausible method is voting which is the spirit of democracy but what about these issues..you cant have referendums taking place here!

Secondly the vision of the "Aam aadmi" through panchayati raj/ gram sabha etc is not  effective simply because the representation of aam aadmi by these instituitions is frequently questioned and it is seen that they resort to moral policing and political opportunism way too often!

And the most important conflict is "the majority isnt always right" issue! So when laws contrast with majority opinion what is expected to happen?Confused
charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 22 January 2014 at 12:16pm | IP Logged
@Hades
Agreed policeman are equally  Aaam Admi , but unfortunately due to varied reasons especially in Delhi they do tend to control the law. Right from the lowest levels who can be found asking "hatwas"  and making money out of illegal construction, there are many ways where this " Aam Admi" has found a way to wield power. The corruption rate in Delhi Police is exceptionally high. That is due to the fact that they don't come under state govt , so a policeman ( at any level) in Delhi is more  powerful compared to its counterpart in other states. Keyword - majority.  

The reason why the raids were conducted was because for years now the residents were trying to reach police about the developing racket in their locality. No FIR was filed or even an investigation was carried out. http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3877000&TPN=9

To your point of suspension asked by the law minister - 3 cops with very different cases. I will take this raid wala Cop , because for other two there are enough proof for charges of corruption. Lets assume he was corrupt or even inefficient enough to not report a complaint stated by a local. Now if he is am Aam admi and his job is to be evaluated like other govt employees, he would be found lacking . So don't you think his supposedly employer has a right to pull him aside and investigate his performance, especially in a profession where its a matter of life and death . 

In any way it is provided in the Indian Constitution that for any investigation in any case, the concerned person is to be removed or suspended (  salaries continued  per discretion) . So was the Law Minister wrong in asking for suspension of a police-officer against whom he has received complaints?

Now to balance out, the technicality of that very night does way  in policeman's favor but that doesn't exempt him from a suspension. We need to see the reason - was it about that particular night's conduct or about months of non-performance? 

If the recent figures are to be believed 77% of corruption charges in Delhi feature policemen. And it is not just a upper crust problem. 

I wonder what is the role of law minister in Delhi , if he doesn't have the power to instruct his police force to act on a complaint ( this is independent of present case) and question them. Why are we ready to believe that the said Minister is exerting his power and is corrupt because he has asked a cop to report about his pending cases or complaints? This goes both ways, even that Minister at the end of it all is an Aam Admi, a govt employee. He too gets a salary.  Or have we become so cynical that we assume them to be corrupt in everyway?

I understand the charges of unfair suspensions like in April 2013 when Shinde suspended few policemen when few activists stoned his place. Why was this not protested?  What was the fault of that man in uniform.
You asked for difference here it is , not defending the Law Minister's actions or hysteria but the intent was far better than what National Parties go for. Suspension for poor performance vs sheer power abuse. 

See the cop was technically right because of the rulebook, the  very same which states that in case of any investigation the officer should be suspended until the innocent is proven guilty. Then why was this rule thrown out of the window. 

I agree with your dual system. Delhi has a huge population , you do need a layer of law forces which are strictly for the law and order. We can MArshals under Union for National security purposes 



charminggenie IF-Stunnerz
charminggenie
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Joined: 28 December 2007
Posts: 27531

Posted: 22 January 2014 at 12:27pm | IP Logged
@Mr A - Vote share is always so confusing , well atleast for me. Lets  talk about the numbers. I feel anything around 200 for BJP would be a good position. It has Shiv Sena, maybe AIADMK, Akalis , Chandra Babu, maybe even BJD. They can sail through the vote of thanks easily and without needing MAmta or anyone else. 
Doubt SP will get many seats , BSP might  - gain few. CPI/CPM  ( West Bengal, Kerela )- 40 odd number. 

@ I am amused when people take AAP too seriously , they never had and never will make national level impact in this election atleast. People criticize them too much when they have no religious/minority based core ideology. IF we can tolerate SP/BSP/DMK crap then why are we so willing to write off this regional party who clearly doesn't have a substantial vote bank outside cities in North India.  Cong is only hoping that the seats it will loose in North India don't fall to BJP hence the AAP over exposure on National channels. BJP should be happy that they are further cutting down Cong vote bank? 


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