Like or Dislike Yudhishtir/ VB Nt pg 22 - Page 20

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What's your take on Yudhishtir?

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_gReenheaRt_ thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

 
Oh! Thanks for the equanimity- assuming no sarcasm. For perhaps I did trespass the post without any explicit pass; the excuses being 'commodity' and an open forum.
But my queries/doubts are genuine and expectant in nature. Your explanations are thought provoking and subtly but unmistakably urging 'positivity'. 


[/QUOTE]
Ok.I was just confirming whether you've given them(1,2,3 & 4) a permanent place to settle within you.If so they can't be swept away easily.

I'll edit this soon!
Edited by SRUJAconscience - 10 years ago
smrth thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Originally posted by: SRUJAconscience


 
Oh! Thanks for the equanimity- assuming no sarcasm. For perhaps I did trespass the post without any explicit pass; the excuses being 'commodity' and an open forum.
But my queries/doubts are genuine and expectant in nature. Your explanations are thought provoking and subtly but unmistakably urging 'positivity'. 



Ok.I was just confirming whether you've given them(1,2,3 & 4) a permanent place to settle within you.If so they can't be swept away easily.

I'll edit this soon!

^^^
Thanks.
I had clarified in the beginning; I don't dislike him per se. 'Loathing' was for two acts specified. Appreciation is there. 
Here in honesty, I have to own up a disagreement that I have refrained so far from putting across. For, I did not want to be a gainsayer just for the sake of it. Draupadi's 'motherhood' elevation is too subjective a proposition.    
_gReenheaRt_ thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

@smrth

Ved Vyasa labelled Yuddhishtir as righteous, King of righteousness, Embodiment of God,always truthful,one without enemies,patient, intelligent,knowledgeable,modest & humble...What do you think of these?

Why would Vyasa or any character of Mahabharat credit the above qualities to Yuddhishtir if he was not really or completely worth them!?

His conduct seems to be troublesome at situations.But why wasn't he criticised by Vyasa at those points if at all his behaviour was out of track?


_gReenheaRt_ thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

[quote] Vanaparva SECTION XXXIV

Vaisampayana said, "Thus addressed by Bhimasena, the high-souled king Ajatasatru firmly devoted to truth, mustering his patience, after a few moments said these words, 'No doubt, O Bharata, all this is true. I cannot reproach thee for thy torturing me thus by piercing me with thy arrowy words. From my folly alone hath this calamity come against you. I sought to cast the dice desiring to snatch from Dhritarashtra's son his kingdom with the sovereignty. It was therefore that, that cunning gambler--Suvala's son--played against me on behalf of Suyodhana. Sakuni, a native of the hilly country, is exceedingly artful. Casting the dice in the presence of the assembly, unacquainted as I am with artifices of any kind, he vanquished me artfully."
[/quote]
[/QUOTE]


If at all Yuddhishtir desired Dhritarashtra's son his kingdom why he refused Bhima's suggestion to end the Vanvaas in 13 days!?

Why he ordered Bhima and Arjun to save Dhritarashtra's son & Co. from Gandharvas when the later were in trouble!?He must have left them to their fate and take over his kingdom after their end!

...Diala... thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Originally posted by: SRUJAconscience



If at all Yuddhishtir desired Dhritarashtra's son his kingdom why he refused Bhima's suggestion to end the Vanvaas in 13 days!?

Why he ordered Bhima and Arjun to save Dhritarashtra's son & Co. from Gandharvas when the later were in trouble!?He must have left them to their fate and take over his kingdom after their end!



why are these questions directed to me 😆 I dint write the epic.. so looks like we should declare this one as Yudishtar's first lie not the Aswathama one..

but anyways... you can read through the same chapter to know why he refused Bhima's suggestion.. it was the agreement so he dint want to end the exile... Next Yudishtar desired to win D's kingdom, that doesnt mean he will want him killed.. Even Duryodhan dint want Yudi to be killed but only arrested by Drona on day 13.. so what should we conclude from this?

smrth thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Originally posted by: SRUJAconscience


@smrth

Ved Vyasa labelled Yuddhishtir as righteous, King of righteousness, Embodiment of God,always truthful,one without enemies,patient, intelligent,knowledgeable,modest & humble...What do you think of these?

Why would Vyasa or any character of Mahabharat credit the above qualities to Yuddhishtir if he was not really or completely worth them!?

His conduct seems to be troublesome at situations.But why wasn't he criticised by Vyasa at those points if at all his behaviour was out of track?



But Vyas is not always criticising. He simply puts the events as they happen in the tale and leave the judgement... Rarely he puts a simultaneous critique/analysis of an untoward act. 
But in this particular event, is he not censuring the act? As a narrater, he inserts; 1) When he staked Draupadi, elders including Bhishma bemoans in shame, 'fie, fie...'. 2) Denouncement through Bhim, "burn thy hand..."
Also, the structure of Epic; isn't it an indirect narration?...coming through Vaisampayan as a recital.    
Medha.S thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
Originally posted by: JanakiRaghunath


True That!

Well Dushasan molested her, not Karna or Duryodhan  but well, Karna did suggest it. He even 'scolded' Vikarna for speaking in Draupadis defense.😆 

But still, a woman, today, would happily become violent if the person who verbally abused her and suggested his friends to strip her naked will come say" i am extremely sorry, it was a mistake"

This reminded me, that if you read Viraat Parva, before the Matsya war, Karna calls the Pandavas 'selfish'. So, you saying that the Kauravas enjoyed the fruits of their deceit set me off.😆

"The Pandavas are always the special favourites of the preceptor. The selfish Pandavas have stationed Drona amongst us. Indeed, he betrayeth himself by his speech. Who would ever extol a person upon hearing the neigh only of his steeds?"



 


 


_gReenheaRt_ thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Dear Friends,

We are not exploring something for the first time and we don't prefer any half-baked result.Predictions that aren't firmly attached to the ground turn to be useless.They cannot survive long if at all they live they don't fit in every situation.
And now how can certain lines judge a character when the Great Epic is fully-fledged with text worth 18-Chapters!?
If it is Yuddhishtir,we very well know that he was recognized  as Dharma right from the beginning of the Epic.What did Aksashvani say when Yuddhishtir was born.Please do recollect those lines from Adi-Parva!
And as soon as the child was born, an incorporeal voice (from the skies) said, 'This child shall be the best of men, the foremost of those that are virtuous. Endued with great prowess and truthful in speech, he shall certainly be the ruler of the earth. And this first child of Pandu shall be known by the name of Yudhishthira. Possessed of prowess and honesty of disposition, he shall be a famous king, known throughout the three worlds.'

The same was proven in the Great Epic.

Manusmriti written by the ancient sage Manu, says 10 essential components comprise Dharma : Patience (dhriti), forgiveness (kshama), piety or self control (dama), honesty (asteya), sanctity (shauch), control of senses (indraiya-nigrah), reason (dhi), knowledge or learning (vidya), truthfulness (satya) and absence of anger (krodha). Manu further writes, "Non-violence, truth, non-coveting, purity of body and mind, control of senses are the essence of dharma".

Where does this base of a character(comprising all the traits) that predicts a person's nature go missing while trying to understand the epic!?

People find Yuddhishtir's actions troublesome at various points.But with the aid of above mentioned traits how can the following be viewed!?

If it is staking his wealth...Who can say all this is ours!?

If it is staking his Kingdom...we know that a king's subjects will bear the same recognition (as People- Praja)for his wife,brothers and children.So does pawning them make any difference!?

Be it staked his Pandava Brothers...he was aware that his siblings were brothers of Kauravas also.

Yuddhishtir staked his wife...I'll ask wasn't she related to Kauravas!?How can you say he staked her like a commodity!?

He boasted about his vast wealth...But who can brag of things that are destined to be lost!?

If you talk about 'vice' there is a question for you...who took it to the level of  vice?Who played like a relative and who played like a true gambler forcing to put this and that as a stake...who continued to 'live' in that role even when the game ended?
If at all Yuddhishtir won Hastinapur and Kaurav women what would he have done considering them his daughters!?

Even if you want to know how Yuddhishtir forgave repeated offences?...you have to understand that essence of his character.

For "I sought to cast the dice desiring to snatch from Dhritarashtra's son his kingdom with the sovereignty. It was therefore that, that cunning gambler--Suvala's son--played against me on behalf of Suyodhana."...didn't he refuse Bhima's suggestion to end the Vanvaas in 13 days!?Why did he take up the entire period of 13 years?Why he ordered Bhima and Arjun to save Dhritarashtra's son & Co. from Gandharvas when the later were in trouble!?He must have left them to their fate and take over his kingdom after their end!Even if he didn't will to end them he could have ordered Bhim and Arjun to capture them.But why didn't he do that!?Does Yuddhishtir need any discourse on Kshatriya qualities?How do you approach someone speaking in pain,holding you responsible for their sufferings?Can you pacify them saying they are wrong in blaming you?Perhaps it was a way to calm them by agreeing with what all they said and felt inside.And later prove them as baseless allegations.

Yuddhisthir asked Bhima & Arjun to save the Kauravas who were captives of the Gandharvas...Those Gandharvas captured Kaurava women.It was said that "This contact with other people's wives and this hostile encounter with human beings are acts that are both censurable in the king of the Gandharvas and not proper for him."
Protecting the women esp. of one's own clan is the duty of every man.How can this be a contradicting to Dharma!?

Lusting for someone...let me tell you a person with virtues can never sink into low standards.Especially if he's deeply involved in Truth.How could he make 13 years of ascetic life successful with a strong drive for physical plessures!?

I'll admit that all this logic and reasoning is still lacking and doesn't cover even 0.1 percent of the reality,reality which even I believe it to be of  great calibre.

Only perception of high standard is worth taking up because these characters and their actions are not just for analysis and forgetting.We can never understand a character like Yuddhishtir being ourself!Perhaps partially if, we are a Bhim or a Arjun.But never being embodiments of Kali(Demon)!

To Understand Yuddhishtir's actions

Keeping the conflicts aside,to predict anything about Dharma, a person's path should be that of  Dharma!Only a person who really has got into that state of virtues can give the correct sense of a righteous character.

Faulting someone unable to understand his deeds!? This is not desirable.

According to the Bhagavat Purana, righteous living or life on a dharmic path has four aspects: austerity (tap), purity (shauch), compassion (daya) and truthfulness (satya); and adharmic or unrighteous life has three vices: pride (ahankar), contact (sangh), and intoxication (madya). The essence of dharma lies in possessing a certain ability, power and spiritual strength. The strength of being dharmic also lies in the unique combination of spiritual brilliance and physical prowess.

Anyone who is complete with the above qualities can understand what is dharma and bring out the exact meaning of Yuddhishtir's actions.

To disprove...

Even if someone wants to refute Yuddhishtir's actions they can to do it by giving the right way to function provided they are on the same path...dharmic path comprising the above aspects.



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Posted: 10 years ago
Originally posted by: ...Diala...


 I had this question.. Yudi repeatedly says Shakuni won by unfair means in almost every round of the game.. why dint anyone in the hall hold this against Shakuni/Dury?


Even I had the same doubt while reading those chapters.

Perhaps visibly everything looked fine.
CaptainSpark thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
This is a v difficult question..but i have mixed views about him.. i have heard in some places that Arjun and Yudhishtir had a fught during Kurukshetra when Yudhishtir told Arjun tthat he was not fighting properly as he has taken a vow to end the kuru brothers alone. Yudhishtir told arjun that u r a poor warrior and Arjun was extremely Angry. Yudhishtir was good but i dont agree to the fact that he was the real hero of mahabharat. As logically he did not do anything great. And yas, indeed it was v wrong of him to use Draupadi in d kapat game. And as mahabharat teaches us that quitting your own will is a step to go to god, yudhishtir was fond of kapat khel and thus knowing that it was a trick by kauravs he went to play the game. I think he was intelligent wnough to undrstnd dat it wont b a fair game.