Was Draupadi really disrobed in the Dice Hall? - Page 4

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Man

@Manzz

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Posted: 10 years ago

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mnx12

@mnx12

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Posted: 10 years ago

Surya,
True. Dharma's representatives here Yudi, Vidur were helpless. So Krishna, who was born to restore dharma, can be taken as the one providing sarees. If one sees the qualities of Krishna, he was born with 16 kalas. His Sankramini & Prabhavi kalas were capable of performing that task. Paripurana & Swarupavasthita helped him connect to to Draupadi's cry for help. Refering to other connected literature, stotras helps in analysing & understanding an event better.

1) Anna Maya (with cereals)
2) Pranamaya (with breath)
3) Mano Maya (with mind)
4) Vigyanamaya (with knowledge)
5) Anandamaya (with joy)
6) Atishayini (With Peace)
7) Viparinabhini (With Love)
8) Sankramini (With Creator)
9) Prabhavi (able to do seemingly impossible tasks)
10) Kunthini
11) Vikasini (great )
12) Maryadini (highly respected or with etiquette)
13) Sanhaladini (cheering, a source of happiness)
14) Ahladini (causing joy or delight)
15) Paripurna (complete knowledge of all forms of awakening)
16) Swarupavasthita (swarup + awasthith = established in his real true self)

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varaali

@varaali

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Posted: 10 years ago

The incident of Krishna coming to Draupad's rescue during her humiliation - is- without a doubt- a later day interpolation.

There are several arguments for claiming this :

In none of the texts (Nilkantha's , Southern Recension, Kumbakonam ) is there any clear indication that Krishna did come to her rescue. Yes, Draupadi calls to him for help " Krishna Krishna maha yogi...but there is no subsequent mention of Krishna actually materializing there.

There is only one additional line in the NR - which I think KMG has incorporated

"Tyaktva shyyasnam padaabhyam Kripalu etc etc...Leaving behind his bed / settee, the One with Compassion, out of pity, arrived there on foot. "

Now for Krishna to arrive there on foot is impossible. This is clearly a later day interpolation because later on, in the forest, when Draupadi laments to Krishna that even he did not help her, Krishna does not say "Of course I did, Draupadi. Didn't I supply you with endless supply of clothes?" On the contrary Krishna claims that he had no knowledge of what had transpired in Hastinapura.

Moreover it is very un- Vyasa like to miss an opportunity to describe the Lord's dramatic appearance. There are two Vyasa trademarks- One to sing a stuti at a drop of a hat and the other to launch into a rambling narrative of a story from the past . It is very strange that Vyasa would not compose a few adulatory verses when his favourite Lord was performing such a stunning miracle.

The second Vyasa trademark is observed here . Vidura launches into a story about Prahalada, but the first Vyasa trademark is absent here.

Edited by varaali - 10 years ago

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varaali

@varaali

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Posted: 10 years ago

So now we come to the second question "What / who then saved Draupadi?

According to the subsequent lines it was "Dharma" Who or what is this "Dharma" ?

To understand this, let us try to understand the word "Dharma". The root for the word Dharma is "Dhr" (to hold/ uphold) That which upholds is said to be Dharma. Also, it is said Dharmo rakshati rakshitah. He who protects Dharma is protected by Dharma in return.

So what was this Dharma which protected Draupadi? I think, it was her Patni- Dharma, her satitva which protected her.

Later on, once more Draupadi would invoke her satitva to protect her. When she was sent to Keechak's chamber by Sudeshna, Draupadi prayed to Surya, summoning her powers of chastity, to protect her

And when Keechak kicked her in the rajya Sabha, the protector assigned by Surya to guard Drauapdi gave a good kick in return to Keechak.

The dharma referred to here, in the disrobing incident, is Draupadi's own pativrata dharma- which ultimately protected her.

Of course, according to the compiler of the Critical Edition, Dr Suthankar, the entire disrobing incident is a later day interpolation- and hence does not feature in the CE. The first few posts of this thread provide convincing arguments - so I am not repeating them here.

Edited by varaali - 10 years ago

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Semanti Chakraborty

@DharmaPriyaa

IF-Dazzler

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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Surya_krsnbhakt

Um.. I know that... but like I said, it can be superficial... I mean, this is Krishna we are talking about... master of speech...
I still have my doubts..😆

There is no place of doubt. If you believe that Krishna is God then it's very simple to understand. Obviously any of us can never extend a woman's saree while present in another place, but Krishna can. If you do not believe this then why to believe that Dharma protected Draupadi? Is not Dharma a Demigod? Are not all the Demigods derived from the Supreme,i.e, Krishna? Are not the Demigods different forms of Supreme Lord? Then Dharma protected means Krishna protected, also, we do believe that nothing can happen without Krishna's desire.

I personally also think that, Krishna saved Draupadi in form of Dharma, because she was Dharmapatni of Dharma. Besides what is the problem to think that, Krishna extended the saree & that extra saree itself was a form of Dharma, & thus Dharma saved own Dharmapatni?

Please try to think it Spiritually.

Edited by Urmila11 - 10 years ago

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Surya Sundarraj Sriram

@Surya_krsnbhakt

IF-Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Urmila11

There is no place of doubt. If you believe that Krishna is God then it's very simple to understand. Obviously any of us can never extend a woman's saree while present in another place, but Krishna can. If you do not believe this then why to believe that Dharma protected Draupadi? Is not Dharma a Demigod? Are not all the Demigods derived from the Supreme,i.e, Krishna? Are not the Demigods different forms of Supreme Lord? Then Dharma protected means Krishna protected, also, we do believe that nothing can happen without Krishna's desire.
I personally also think that, Krishna saved Draupadi in form of Dharma, because she was Dharmapatni of Dharma. Besides what is the problem to think that, Krishna extended the saree & that extra saree itself was a form of Dharma, & thus Dharma saved own Dharmapatni?

You misunderstand me.

I mean that, I have my doubts, whether it was Dharmadeva who saved Draupadi and not Krishna.

Personally I believe it was Krishna himself...

And though people may argue that it is an interpolation and all, where else do you find such a fine story of Sharanagati to God? So, rather than arguing whether it is in the MB or not, I think the msg is to follow Draupadi and surrender to Krishna - or whichever God you feel.

But each one to his own views😊

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Vrish

@Vr15h

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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Urmila11
There is no place of doubt. If you believe that Krishna is God then it's very simple to understand. Obviously any of us can never extend a woman's saree while present in another place, but Krishna can. If you do not believe this then why to believe that Dharma protected Draupadi? Is not Dharma a Demigod? Are not all the Demigods derived from the Supreme,i.e, Krishna? Are not the Demigods different forms of Supreme Lord? Then Dharma protected means Krishna protected, also, we do believe that nothing can happen without Krishna's desire.
I personally also think that, Krishna saved Draupadi in form of Dharma, because she was Dharmapatni of Dharma. Besides what is the problem to think that, Krishna extended the saree & that extra saree itself was a form of Dharma, & thus Dharma saved own Dharmapatni?
Please try to think it Spiritually.

Sorry, I prefer reading and arriving at my own conclusions. Analyzing it, instead of thinking that what god does is far greater than what any of us can comprehend. If I really believed that, I'd not be following the epics & other puranic stories so keenly - what business do I, a mere mortal, have doing it?

Krishna explicitly tells Draupadi, when she asks him why he wasn't there to protect her, what he was doing. So does your spiritual dwelling on it lead you to the conclusion that he was lying? He was in Dwarka, fighting a war against Shalva, and was in no position to do squat. So what the epic says - that Dharma saved Draupadi - could easily have referred to Yudisthir's father, who wasn't busy doing anything else elsewhere.

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varaali

@varaali

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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Urmila11

I personally also think that, Krishna saved Draupadi in form of Dharma, because she was Dharmapatni of Dharma. Besides what is the problem to think that, Krishna extended the saree & that extra saree itself was a form of Dharma, & thus Dharma saved own Dharmapatni?
Please try to think it Spiritually.

Sema- Only you can write something like this. 👏 Bravo.

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varaali

@varaali

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+ 2

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Surya_krsnbhakt

You misunderstand me.
I mean that, I have my doubts, whether it was Dharmadeva who saved Draupadi and not Krishna.
Personally I believe it was Krishna himself...
And though people may argue that it is an interpolation and all, where else do you find such a fine story of Sharanagati to God? So, rather than arguing whether it is in the MB or not, I think the msg is to follow Draupadi and surrender to Krishna - or whichever God you feel.
But each one to his own views😊

@ bold : So do I, as a Krishna-bhakt myself. One of my favourite lines in the entire gamut of Carnatic Music is "Draupadi maana samrakshana kara...from Balagopala (Bharavi) and you ought to see the fervor with which my guru sings this particular line. With this background, will my viewpoint be any different?

I was only trying to analyze it from a textual point of view.

Edited by varaali - 10 years ago

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Surya Sundarraj Sriram

@Surya_krsnbhakt

IF-Dazzler

Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali

@ bold : So do I, as a Krishna-bhakt myself. One of my favourite lines in the entire gamut of Carnatic Music is "Draupadi maana samrakshana kara...from Balagopala (Bharavi) and you ought to see the fervor with which my guru sings this particular line. With this background, will my viewpoint be any different?

I was only trying to analyze it from a textual point of view.

Yes, that is a beautiful kriti, and that line is simply beautiful, especially as it is Madhyamakalam... with all the yatiprasam.. the beat and the avarohanam is just like as if Krishna is giving the sari which is draping itself all around her...

Ok back to topic, as not many will understand what I have commented...😆

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