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Crisp Bytes SC - 16th aug 13 (Page 17)

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 7:15pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by shana0127

seeing to the confusion regarding future of the show ...i just feel that show will surely end by October or November end with unification of saras kumud ...and i feel its best way to do justice to he show

rather then drag it into saas bahu drama

slb started it with a vision of saras kumud love story and it should end with completion of it ...and all will be happy slb and sp too

plus now news is that slb may continue till end november as new ph seems reluctant to take over as they have differences over financial and creative issues



That seems to be the best thing under the circumstances, Shana. SLB sees it to a decent end and then it can be replaced with another saas bahu

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 7:47pm | IP Logged
Hgg & smrth Bhai's,

Very persuasive arguments both sides. Both with equal merits too, however, seconding Arshi, I will reserve till Desai's actually bid Kumud adieu without entirely 'rectifying' the lacks witnessed in last Fri's episode. For pure curiosity only, not holding out stringent hope, either way. 

Here too I am witnessing a 'clash' (intellectual sense), between creative "consiousness" (smrth) and creative "conscience" (Hgg). Both sides of the same coin for me. But with SP/SLB split, very difficult to reconcile with full surety now. Inconsistencies will linger. As worst case scenario we may even have to reset all prior markers and reads to make sense of story now. We know the grammar has changed, but to ascertain the A,B,C's of current grammar, we may need to wait it out a bit =)

smrth Bhai, regarding 'Kusum'... I did venture a read in response to Hgg bhai. Reproducing the relevant here (if you may excuse VC's bit, as pure subjective analysis Embarrassed):

"Hgg bhai... Pardon me for saying so, but there was something 'effeminate' about VC's reaction... Plus taking recourse from symbolism, rushing straight to 'tulsi' effectively emasculated (perfect term!) him at that point. However, wider symbolism applied here, I read VC, Gun and Dukh baa all, as stripped of their "agency" from here on... Not liking this, but witness Kusum, at higher ground and Saras at lower, locked out, outside gates... Why would there be need to show Kusum at chatt out of all places, I wondered. Why not aligned with 'emasculated elders' but instead at attention like an armed sentry? Has 'agency' been transferred to Kusum now... 'Agency' that will not only put her at odds but also on a higher "moral" ground from Saras? Kind of like... My didi's so noble for soldiering thru, and you are so shameless for sticking on?! Ouch I don't read the two (Saras, Kusum) as "allies"... I don't read Kusum as being an ally in the most purest sense for Kumud even. Coupled with Saras' vow, she is gonna cause more harm than good. A headache, than support. Kusum has that potential to splinter Kumud's "crutch"... My biggest fear Ouch"

And another 'read' this about shloka recurrence you posted (a bit tangential) but I get unduly delighted when I find puzzle pieces fit for me LOL:

"Arshi, I saw it as the third "bind" in action (Three Mothers Theory). Saras, standing in for Saraswati. Thirty days, proclamation aside... But the vow, as the bind of Saraswati maa upon, Kumud tied by Saras. The final bind. Kumud is also associated to Saraswati, three ways with this: First, the payal (ehsaas) she still keeps, second, the same fate, promiscuous husband, she now shares, and third, Saras' vow to make Kumud's marriage work, by "channeling" Saraswati at significant place, added as assert of third Mother to the existing advice of Guniyal (accept hubby's vice/virtues equally), and the expectation of Saubhagya Devi (Pramad needs love to reform, you can provide that, with strive and patience)... Recall, Saras, pledging to fulfill a "lack" in Pramad Kumud marriage... That 'lack' I read as, passivity from all other Mothers, but full 'agency' from Saraswati, in the guise of Saras. Both other "Mothers" are giving advice, support, and heaping expectations, but this "Mother" will be more about "action"... Courtesy of "Mother's son"...  Dunno if I'm making any sense but... Confused"

Edit: Also smrth Bhai, pardons for belaboring the point, but you find no evidence of 'character meddling' anywhere in show? Even a monosyllable will suffice. I know by this point you must have typed yourself 'hoarse' Embarrassed



Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 8:07pm

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 8:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by IdiotViewer

Hgg & smrth Bhai's,

Very persuasive arguments both sides. Both with equal merits too, however, seconding Arshi, I will reserve till Desai's actually bid Kumud adieu without entirely 'rectifying' the lacks witnessed in last Fri's episode. For pure curiosity only, not holding out stringent hope, either way. 

Here too I am witnessing a 'clash' (intellectual sense), between creative "consiousness" (smrth) and creative "conscience" (Hgg). Both same sides of the coin for me. But with SP/SLB split, very difficult to reconcile with full surety now. Inconsistencies will linger. As worst case scenario we may even have to reset all prior markers and reads to make sense of story now. We know the grammar has changed, but to ascertain the A,B,C's of current grammar, we may need to wait it out a bit =)

smrth Bhai, regarding 'Kusum'... I did venture a read in response to Hgg bhai. Reproducing the relevant here (if you may excuse VC's bit, as pure subjective analysis Embarrassed):

"Hgg bhai... Pardon me for saying so, but there was something 'effeminate' about VC's reaction... Plus taking recourse from symbolism, rushing straight to 'tulsi' effectively emasculated (perfect term!) him at that point. However, wider symbolism applied here, I read VC, Gun and Dukh baa all, as stripped of their "agency" from here on... Not liking this, but witness Kusum, at higher ground and Saras at lower, locked out, outside gates... Why would there be need to show Kusum at chatt out of all places, I wondered. Why not aligned with 'emasculated elders' but instead at attention like an armed sentry? Has 'agency' been transferred to Kusum now... 'Agency' that will not only put her at odds but also on a higher "moral" ground from Saras? Kind of like... My didi's so noble for soldiering thru, and you are so shameless for sticking on?! Ouch I don't read the two (Saras, Kusum) as "allies"... I don't read Kusum as being an ally in the most purest sense for Kumud even. Coupled with Saras' vow, she is gonna cause more harm than good. A headache, than support. Kusum has that potential to splinter Kumud's "crutch"... My biggest fear Ouch"

Edit: Also smrth Bhai, pardons for belaboring the point, but you find no evidence of 'character meddling' anywhere in show? Even a monosyllable will suffice. I know by this point you must have typed yourself 'hoarse' Embarrassed

Your interpretation of Kusum on the chatt, looking down and Saras locked out -Clap

But the symbolism of tulsi - I have a slightly different way of looking at it. 

Infact smrths insistence on "she is not coming back" is what triggered this thought. 

Tulsi is a worshipped plant, highly respected, but, never kept indoors. A tulsi plant will be well cared for, tended and nurtured, but it is always kept outside. 

Is that the correlation? That Kumud is now like the tulsi of their aangan? No longer inside their home? 

An outsider, loved, cared for , but still, an outsider? 

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 8:14pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Your interpretation of Kusum on the chatt, looking down and Saras locked out -Clap

But the symbolism of tulsi - I have a slightly different way of looking at it. 

Infact smrths insistence on "she is not coming back" is what triggered this thought. 

Tulsi is a worshipped plant, highly respected, but, never kept indoors. A tulsi plant will be well cared for, tended and nurtured, but it is always kept outside. 

Is that the correlation? That Kumud is now like the tulsi of their aangan? No longer inside their home? 

An outsider, loved, cared for , but still, an outsider? 

That's brilliant, Arshi! Clap May I confess, I really didn't know about 'tulsi', and its religious significance... Save what Google pics showed me, so ventured out a read solely based on that... Pardon the callousness Embarrassed

Yes, Kumud is an outsider now, they have via marriage, transferred the most active of their haqq's on her to BD's... Might go in some ways to explaining their 'passivity' regarding her even? The hesitance to call, the fear to outright ask questions etc... And perhaps underscores Kumud's stand too, that I cannot come back, I have to make a go of my marriage... She accepts that she is a 'tulsi of their aangan' too... Plus, the emotions that VC could not unleash in front of Kumud, he did in front of 'tulsi' so maybe it functioned both as Kumud signifier and substitute for that scene? 




Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 8:18pm

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 8:27pm | IP Logged
@Ivy 


"Arshi, I saw it as the third "bind" in action (Three Mothers Theory). Saras, standing in for Saraswati. Thirty days, proclamation aside... But the vow, as the bind of Saraswati maa upon, Kumud tied by Saras. The final bind. Kumud is also associated to Saraswati, three ways with this: First, the payal (ehsaas) she still keeps, second, the same fate, promiscuous husband, she now shares, and third, Saras' vow to make Kumud's marriage work, by "channeling" Saraswati at significant place, added as assert of third Mother to the existing advice of Guniyal (accept hubby's vice/virtues equally), and the expectation of Saubhagya Devi (Pramad needs love to reform, you can provide that, with strive and patience)... Recall, Saras, pledging to fulfill a "lack" in Pramad Kumud marriage... That 'lack' I read as, passivity from all other Mothers, but full 'agency' from Saraswati, in the guise of Saras. Both other "Mothers" are giving advice, support, and heaping expectations, but this "Mother" will be more about "action"... Courtesy of "Mother's son"...  Dunno if I'm making any sense but... Confused"



Makes perfect sense Ivy, going to the exact spot, and taking the kasam, was a correlation with Saraswati, and anyway, who is Saras, but saraswati's son? 

Right from the moment we met Saras, we have also seen a tussle about who he is. 

LN demands that Saras become his son, Guman claims that Saras is hers and she has moulded him to her design, Mai has her own claims on him, and Guniyal becomes ma to him. 

He denounced LN and Guman by choice, and Mai and Guniyal have been lost to fate

He is, was and remains saraswati's son. So if saraswati's fate is becoming Kumud's fate, he will want to change that is also right. 

And Kumud - her birth mothers shiksha of accepting the good and bad in the husband, has given her the aastha, her saasuma's aasha, will give her the himmat, and the third mother, represented by Saras will give the raasta. 

Aastha, himmat aur raasta, jab sab saath hon, toh manzil mil hi jayegi. So pramaad sudhar is bound to happen, 

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Makes perfect sense Ivy, going to the exact spot, and taking the kasam, was a correlation with Saraswati, and anyway, who is Saras, but saraswati's son? 

Right from the moment we met Saras, we have also seen a tussle about who he is. 

LN demands that Saras become his son, Guman claims that Saras is hers and she has moulded him to her design, Mai has her own claims on him, and Guniyal becomes ma to him. 

He denounced LN and Guman by choice, and Mai and Guniyal have been lost to fate

He is, was and remains saraswati's son. So if saraswati's fate is becoming Kumud's fate, he will want to change that is also right. 

And Kumud - her birth mothers shiksha of accepting the good and bad in the husband, has given her the aastha, her saasuma's aasha, will give her the himmat, and the third mother, represented by Saras will give the raasta. 

Aastha, himmat aur raasta, jab sab saath hon, toh manzil mil hi jayegi. So pramaad sudhar is bound to happen, 

Underlined: Aastha, himmat, rastaa... Loved the way you put that! Clap Brilliant application. 

Bold: Cry ... Pramad death-marker also got revisited. Again, Kumud was the only one 'shouldering' that burden. But I'm not putting much emphasis on regarding 'em as death-markers anymore. He is an alcoholic, practically speaking, what can he do if not pass out fully drunk Confused But you can also witness Kumud's 'persistence'. She supports him everytime and unconciously he 'leans' on her Ouch

 




Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 8:45pm

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged
Yes, Kumud is an outsider now, they have via marriage, transferred the most active of their haqq's on her to BD's... Might go in some ways to explaining their 'passivity' regarding her even? The hesitance to call, the fear to outright ask questions etc... And perhaps underscores Kumud's stand too, that I cannot come back, I have to make a go of my marriage... She accepts that she is a 'tulsi of their aangan' too... Plus, the emotions that VC could not unleash in front of Kumud, he did in front of 'tulsi' so maybe it functioned both as Kumud signifier and substitute for that scene? 


Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

And in the rural context, the rigidity is bound to be higher, that is one mindset which still prevails, though not as strongly as shown here. 

So again brings me back to ' but she is not even coming back' said to Dukhba when she assured him that he had taken care of her

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 

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Posted: 17 August 2013 at 9:32pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Arshics

Yes, ivy, it's about haq and hadd here too. 

Once a girl is married, even today, her parents would hesitate to visit her, ladki ke ghar ka paani peena bhi paap hai. 

Though not practiced so rigidly, it is still a mindset in the older generation in north India, abt Gujarat, maybe Hgg and smrth can enlighten us. My mom will come and stay to babysit my girls when I and my husband are traveling, but for a holiday - it still has to be the reverse, to go to a bti's house just like that is still a no no for her! 

And in the rural context, the rigidity is bound to be higher, that is one mindset which still prevails, though not as strongly as shown here. 

So again brings me back to ' but she is not even coming back' said to Dukhba when she assured him that he had taken care of her

It had seemed odd then , but correlate it to beti parayi ho gayi - that he could care for Dukhba, because she let him, she came back into his house, so she gave him back the haq to care for her. 

And Kumud by not coming back, has reminded him of his hadd, could that be the significance of these lines? 

Your brilliant brilliant interpretation of the story as defined by hadd and haq - isn't that what's happening with VC , too? 

Since parents, extended parents can't go to the sasural, but younger siblings, particularly sisters are exempt from this rule, kusum then becomes the natural choice to go to Kumud's sasural . 

Again hadd and haq here! 

And smrth - that one incongruous sounding line, so out of place then , was the crux of the scene - amazing catch from you, as always! 

Kya karain, apni tube light der se jalti hai! 

Beauty and potential of CB again in action, Arshi Clap All of us hold puzzle pieces, its just a matter of them fitting... Sometimes not in time, but still, der aaye, durust aaye Embarrassed

I am entirely bereft of contextual desi social knowledge so really appreciate all this background. 

So hadd and haq functions on so many levels of narrative here... Once again brilliant application... You are on a roll, Arshi. And thank you smrth Bhai, for repeated 'insistence' Clap

Bold: Yes, Arshi, this makes sense. As you say it has never been so outright depicted perhaps that's why we (yours truly, esp) were left floundering... But at this point, I'd prefer VC to at least verbalize some of his hadd's... Maybe we might get some sense of it, monday, itself. So sending Kusum, will be them both staying within hadd and exercising 'haqq' on Kumud as well, making the best of whatever societal constraints they now face with a married daughter, sentenced to a cruel fate. Crucially, a daughter who has opted to live that fate. 

Also to free-wheel here a bit... That 'haqq' lies with BD now? A BD, as per how we saw him last, left with a pricked and uneasy conscience... Reform Pramad aside, but if BD remains as conscious about Kumud still, this may lead to the discussions we had about that significance of beta/naukar motif's... One 'son' may very well replace another. This will be palatable to SP's version of 'Nayi Soch' as well... Again someone else will take decision (BD), and for overall good this time, with elders blessings, the estranged lovers may be re-united. Post Pramad-demise, of course. He has to die =)



Edited by IdiotViewer - 17 August 2013 at 9:33pm

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