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\|/Doubts & Discussions about Lord Shiva Part-1\|/ (Page 57)

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Posted: 15 March 2012 at 9:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by shruti.nil

thanks for the lovely explanation of Kartikeya...

2)   why as compared to Ganapati,Kartikeya isnt worshiped that much?

Oh, if you cross the Vindhyas and enter the Tamil heartland, Kartikeya enjoys a status equal to Shiva / Devi / Vishnu. He is the patron god of Tamil language itself, and he is worshiped as second to none. There are huge, ancient temples in his honour, be it on mountain tops or by the sea shore. Poets and saints have sung his praise and  observing  fasts and vrats to please him is common. 


Edited by varaali - 16 March 2012 at 3:58am

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Posted: 16 March 2012 at 11:40am | IP Logged
I'm not Tamil, but I thought that the patron god of the Tamil language was Shiva, and that he imparted the language, and all its grammatical rules and everything to Sage Agastya.  At least that's what I recall reading in Aranya Kand.

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Posted: 19 March 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged
Lord KArthikeya is called as Thagapan swami -guru to his own father or God father ,Kumara -ever young,Murugan-Ever beautiful, Gyanapanditha-Scholar in wisdom, Kanta- he or masculine form , in Tamil Language .

Each have specific reason...

Since Lord Skanda is called be originated from Lord Shiv's Third eye (wisdom eye)  he is believed to be Gyanaavator of lord Shiv himself .

During Shiv parvati's wedding landmasses in the south side damaged and misplaced . So to maintain the balance Lord shiv requested sage Agastya to march towards  south and flourish the land with development of its language and rituals..so he evaluated and remodeled  a strong grammatical base for that language..Thats right!


Lord Skanda is called as God Father because  he himself aware of the  meaning of  holy Hindu syllable Om.
 Once lord Brahma, the creator of the Universe, out of egotism, failed to show due respect to Lord Skanta, who was then a little boy. Skanta cornered Lord Brahma to expound the meaning of Om to him and the later could not do it. Skanta imprisoned him citing his incompetence.

Lord Shiva who came to the rescue of Brahma, questioned his little son's authority to imprison the God of creation; he wondered whether Skanta knew anything about Om. Skanta, the little master was bold enough to tease his father that if Lord Shiva too didn't know the meaning of Om, he could very well learn from him, provided he came to him very politely, like an earnest student who wants to learn from his master.

Lord Shiva agreed at once. Like an obedient student, he sat low in front of his son, with one hand close to his chest and the other hand closing his mouth (this is a traditional way of showing respect to Guru and Saints). Skanta then expounded the secret behind Om secretly in the ears of Lord Shiva.

Since Skanta thus became a saint who taught to the very lord of the universe, he was called Swaminathan. In Tamil, he is hailed as "Thagappan Sami" - one who became a Guru to his own father.

 So that Tamils believed him to be supreme of all gods due to this incident .  

Since Lord Skanta settled himself in Tamilnadu after the controversial fight over the  wisdom fruit with his brother ,he relocate himself ,by addressing,  "My People My abode  " (this touched Tamils very deeply ) over Mount Palani.

Lord Skanta Features mystically relates with Tamil language...

Skanta having 6 heads =Language Tamil having classical sounds or nasals letters 6  in number.

Skanta having 12 Hands = Tamil Language having Soul letters or vowels 12 .

 having in total 6 heads + 12 hands  = 18

where in Tamil language Body letters or consonants are 18 etc .

He is called as "Yentra tantra mantra" personality by Tamil siddars are sages .This Mystically related to the meaning that, god who dwells in sounds and he who is the gate way for attaining Gyana .

So commonly they said ,sounds of Tamil language is the form of Lord Skanta ...So the famous divine poet as well as  sages like Arunagirinather , Nakirar  works having strong sound based songs equal to sanskrit mantras.


According to the Tamil sangam records  orderly Lord shiv , Lord Skanta , sage Agastya , Lastly poet Nakkirar are Head of the 3 well known Tamil Sangams.

Tamil Sangam : There are Three sangams(assembly of learned persons ) held in tamil land, where two of it is held in the drowned surface or said to be continent called Kumari kandam (Lemuria of indian ocean )

First Sangam: Founder and Head is Lord shiv (he is called Iraiyanaar).in South madurai..belongs to that Mystic Continent .But according to their records  the city is said to  drowned due to a great tsunami.

Middle or Idai Sangam: The pandiyan kings relocate the sangam to Kapadapuram (the remaining land of SouthMadurai),where Lord Skanta Presented himself as head of that Sangam.Later Sage Agastya too succeeded after him .The Famous Tholkapiyam belongs to this period .But this sangam and city too came to end after a Tsunami.

Third or Kadai Sangam : This is the Last Sangam held in North Madurai (Present city far away from sea shores).

Hence Lord Skanta is not different from Lord shiv but a younger version of him

So he himself  volunteered for the Development  of  this language is the reason behind the Words" Patron god of Tamil Language ".


you can refer about sangams here since they are experimental theories they never mentions about Gods...


t Virisadaik Kadavul".    

  http://www.articlesbase.com/culture-articles/what-and-where-was-the-mythical-kumari-kandam-4642866.html 
      



 




 



Edited by vanadhi - 20 March 2012 at 1:24am

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Posted: 20 March 2012 at 12:04am | IP Logged
Originally posted by -MeNe-

What is Rudra Tandava?
Is that the same dance that is being performed when Sati dreams of Shiva? 
when Shivji gets angry in that state,Tandav is called Rudra Tandav, which may result in end of the universe. Anand Tandav is when he is happy. What Sati dreams is the Ardhnarishwar form of Shivji,a dance performed in his happy state.

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Posted: 20 March 2012 at 5:10am | IP Logged
Thank you for the explanation. And what about the time when he is dancing to take the human form? Are some of these dance forms taught as part of classical bharatanatyam?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about his Tandav when he sees Sati's blood soaked Rudraks? That can be the Rudra Tandava.
Hope this helps


Edited by mnx12 - 01 April 2012 at 12:37pm

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varaali IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 20 March 2012 at 10:29pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by -MeNe-


Thank you for the explanation. And what about the time when he is dancing to take the human form? Are some of these dance forms taught as part of classical bharatanatyam?


Not in entirety, these days at least.  Some postures / mudras / abhinaya are incorporated in Bharatanatyam recitals (a lot of twirling and spinning around) , when the Shiva Tandava has to be portrayed.

But Sage Bharata's Natya Shastra  discusses this in great detail and how it should be depicted by dancers. However, modern day sensibilities and the fact that it is women who mostly take to stage these days, do not allow us to follow Natya Shastra literally. Plus some of the postures and movements described are very very difficult and can be achieved only after years of dedicated training. So far I have seen only one eminent dancer be able to do this.




Edited by varaali - 20 March 2012 at 10:47pm

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Posted: 21 March 2012 at 2:07am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

I'm not Tamil, but I thought that the patron god of the Tamil language was Shiva, and that he imparted the language, and all its grammatical rules and everything to Sage Agastya.  At least that's what I recall reading in Aranya Kand.


According to one story, Shiva was the originator of Tamil language. From what I remember, Shiva was once beating his drum with both hands. From one side came the syllables of Sanskrit which was faithfully copied down by Panini - who later on went onto codify the rules of grammar in Sanskrit. From the other side of the drum emerged the syllables of Tamil which was noted down by Agastya. This is what I remember, corrections welcome

But, for some reason, Kartikeya is deemed to be  the patron of Tamil language. Maybe because his worship is so ingrained in the Tamil culture, even its language is considered his favourite.

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Posted: 22 March 2012 at 7:31am | IP Logged
as far as i know he didnt...the show is putting more scenes etc to the actual story,a bit of masala you see...so that the story is more spaced out rather than rushed..
from what i have read the Shiv Sati story is actually really short,unlike the Pravati and Shiva story which is in a bit more detail...it gets over in barely a few stanzas...
I know Shiva disguised himself once as a Bramhin to see Parvatis devotion towards him before they got married...
and ya same question...did Shiv Ji ever take a Human Avatar..?

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