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Devon ke Dev Mahadev
Devon ke Dev Mahadev

\|/Doubts & Discussions about Lord Shiva Part-1\|/ (Page 101)

.Vrish. Viewbie
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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 3:41am | IP Logged
Mira

Congratulations on the 800th post - the first one on this page

Originally posted by vanadhi

Originally posted by .Vrish.

Wow!  100 pages Clap

Samana

That question should actually go in this thread in the mytho forum.


Some people can address it there.  I believe there are a few people from DkDM who are present there as well.

Thanks for the link , I forgot to book mark it , last time.
Why it is not displayed in first page like other columns ?Ermm
accessing is hard !


It's been discussed a bit - it certainly doesn't belong in the foreign & popular TV section.  But on pg 1 of this thread, we have links to all the mytho D&D threads on I-F (I had forgotten one about Hanuman from the Mahavir Hanuman forum - here it is - Doubts & Discussions about Hanuman Mythology).  The Ramayan & Krishna threads are now frozen, which is why any discussions on them go into the above thread.  Or else, Samana's question could have gone to the Ramayan D&D thread, had it still been open.


Edited by .Vrish. - 28 June 2012 at 4:05am

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 3:50am | IP Logged
I have a different question - which I recalled seeing the ridiculous precap of Rati cursing Parvati Wacko

Question is this - when Shiva was reminded after his marriage to provide the Devas w/ his son to lead them, he used some sparks to be given to Agni & Vayu, who took it to the Ganga, who took it to Shravan, and from where Kartikeya was born.  Parvati was not 'needed' at all for Shiva to have his son.

So question is - why did the Devas have to wait for who knows how long for Mahadev to marry?  Once Tarakasura had been given his boon, the Devas could have approached Mahadev for a son, and Mahadev could have done the same thing he did anyway - gotten the sparks, given them to Agni & Vayu and so on.  Only that there would have been no Parvati to claim parentage, but Mahadev would have been available to take little Kartikeya, and raise him.  Just cut the wait, and let Parvati get united w/ him whenever he felt like it (like he ultimately did), w/o delaying the destruction of Tarakasura.

And as for Ganesh later, since he was specifically created to obstruct Mahadev, I guess Parvati getting Mahadev to give her a son for that purpose would have been too ridiculous?

Anyway, particularly for my question about Kartikeya above - given what ultimately happened, why was it necessary for Mahadev to marry in order to give the Devas what they needed?

Oh, and an aside - was there any particular reason that Mahadev & Parvati didn't have any uterine babies?

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vanadhiSubha_2601NandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 7:06am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Oh, and an aside - was there any particular reason that Mahadev & Parvati didn't have any uterine babies?

To answer your last question:

Parvati, in her Divine Primordial form is considered to be an eternal virgin. 

Among the sevaral names used in her worship are Brahmacharini, Nitya Youvanna, Kanya Kumari, etc all pointing to her "virgin" status. The Gayatri Mantra used to invoke her is "Katyayanyai Vidmahe Kanyakumari cha Deemahi Tanno Durge Prachodayat" 

She is the incarnate of Prakriti itself. She herself symbolizes the process of creation. The human process of procreation is for, well, humans. As the Supreme Goddess, She possesses other methods to create new lives. The uterine way would be degenerating her Divinity.

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.Vrish.vanadhiNandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged
Thanks for this reply.  Incidentally, is the same thought to be true about Lakshmi & Saraswati - them being eternal virgins?

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vanadhiNandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:08am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Thanks for this reply.  Incidentally, is the same thought to be true about Lakshmi & Saraswati - them being eternal virgins?

Lakshmi- in her Divine Form, yes. Anyway, I don't think the Sanskrit Puranas mention Lakshmi ever having children. But when she took a human form, for e.g Sita, then she had to resort to the human process of giving birth.

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.Vrish.vanadhiNandiniRaizadaa

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 8:32am | IP Logged
Thank you. I didnt know about the concept of eternal vigins

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paras99vanadhi

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 9:40am | IP Logged
Neither did I! Know about eternal virgins, that is! 

@.Vrish.
I was given to understand that even though the births weren't uterine, that both Shiva and Parvati needed each other's power somehow to "produce" Kartikeya and Ganesha in whatever way they ultimately did.

It couldn't have happened in the absence of the male/female power...

I was told this by some mama once when I was a pesky young kid asking impossibly logical questions! LOL 

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paras99.Vrish.vanadhi

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Posted: 28 June 2012 at 10:13am | IP Logged
Originally posted by .Vrish.

Anyway, particularly for my question about Kartikeya above - given what ultimately happened, why was it necessary for Mahadev to marry in order to give the Devas what they needed?



Shiva represents the Purusha aspect while Parvati represents the Prakriti. Any creation in this world requires the presence of both.Only then will the creation be stable, whole and positive. Now, no doubt both Shiva and Parvati had the capability to create living beings, independent of each other, but in order to uphold the laws of creation and abide by its principles, their joint presence was required to produce Kartikeya.

In the case of beings which were created by Shiva, independent of Parvati, ( Andhakasur and Planet Mars-  OTOH), they were not complete beings. One was created blind with asuric tendencies while the other was dispatched to be a planet in the solar system. 

Even in the case of Ganesh, whom Parvati created w/o Shiva's help (hence his name Vi- nayak), the end result was disastrous and only when Shiva got to play his role (i.e fixing Ganesh's head), did Parvati get her son back. So, it is only when the Male and Female energies, the yin and the yang, the Purusha and the Prakriti, come together can creation take place.

In case of Kartikeya, Parvati is Shiva's Shakti and hence embedded in him. The marriage of Mahadeva and Parvati itself symbolizes the merger of Shiva and Shakti. When their hands were joined in front of the fire, they became One. Hence they don't have to rely on any other physical action to create an offspring. If Shiva was able to create the sparks that ultimately produced Kartikeya, he could do so, because Parvati's Shakti was already within him.

And most importantly, it is Parvati who gives Kartikeya the Vel (Spear/ lance) with which he ultimately kills Surapadman. ( I know, the ACK has Shiva giving  it, but the comic is wrong)

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