\|/Doubts & Discussions about Lord Shiva Part-1\|/ - Page 12

Posted: 12 years ago
I'm not trying to reconcile the northern & southern versions.  What I am trying to do is work out this logic:
  • Surapadman had a boon from Shiva that only one of Shiva's own sons would be able to kill him
  • Kartikeya didn't exist then
  • After some time, Ganesh became available, while Surapadman was still persecuting the devas.  Kartikeya still didn't exist
  • The devas were willing to wait and take more punishment from the asuras while Kartikeya was born & grew up, rather than ask that Ganesh lead them
It's the last point that I'm having some trouble w/.  Yeah, granted that the northern & southern versions are different, but I'm just finding it hard to believe that Ganesh was incapable of fighting a war, which is why Kartikeya had to be introduced.

P.S.  I just discovered - the story of Skanda's birth is also narrated in the Mahabharat, while describing the various pilgrimages that Balarama did during the war b4 he arrived for the Bhima-Duryodhan battle.  It's described here  Two pages later, it goes on to describe

Accompanied by that vast host, Skanda then set out for the destruction of the daityas and the protection of the denizens of heaven. Exertion, and Victory, and Righteousness, and Success, and Prosperity, and Courage, and the Scriptures (in their embodied forms) proceeded in the van of Kartikeya's army, O king! With that terrible force, which was armed with lances, mallets, blazing brands, maces, heavy clubs, arrows, darts and spears, and which was decked with beautiful ornaments and armour, and which uttered roars like those of a proud lion, the divine Guha set out.

Beholding him, all the daityas, rakshasas and danavas, anxious with fear, fled away on all sides. Armed with diverse weapons, the celestials pursued them. Seeing (the foe flying away), Skanda, endued with energy and might, became inflamed with wrath. He repeatedly hurled his terrible weapon, the dart (he had received from Agni). The energy that he then displayed resembled a fire fed with libations of clarified butter. While the dart was repeatedly hurled by Skanda of immeasurable energy, meteoric flashes, O king, fell upon the Earth. Thunderbolts also, with tremendous noise, fell upon the earth. Everything became as frightful O king, as it becomes on the day of universal destruction. When that terrible dart was once hurled by the son of Agni, millions of darts issued from it, O bull of Bharata's race.

The puissant and adorable Skanda, filled with joy, at last slew Taraka, the chief of the daityas, endued with great might and prowess, and surrounded (in that battle) by a 100,000 heroic and mighty daityas. He then, in that battle, slew Mahisha who was surrounded by eightpadmas of daityas. He next slew Tripada who was surrounded by a 1,000 ajutas of daityas. The puissant Skanda then slew Hradodara, who was surrounded by ten nikharvas of daityas, with all his followers armed with diverse weapons. Filling the ten points of the compass, the followers of Kumara, O king, made a loud noise while those daityas were being slain, and danced and jumped and laughed in joy.

Thousands of daityas, O king, were burnt with the flames that issued from Skanda's dart, while others breathed their last, terrified by the roars of Skanda. The three worlds were frightened at the yawns of Skanda's soldiers. The foes were consumed with flames produced by Skanda. Many were slain by his roars alone. Some amongst the foes of the gods, struck with banners, were slain. Some, frightened by the sounds of bells, fell down on the surface of the Earth. Some, mangled with weapons, fell down, deprived of life. In this way the heroic and mighty Kartikeya slew innumerable foes of the gods possessed of great strength that came to fight with him.

Then Bali's son Vana of great might, getting upon the Kraunca mountain, battled with the celestial host. Possessed of great intelligence, the great generalissimo Skanda rushed against that foe of the gods. From fear of Kartikeya, he took shelter within the Kraunca mountain. Inflamed with rage, the adorable Kartikeya then pierced that mountain with that dart given him by Agni. The mountain was called Kraunca (crane) because of the sound it always produced resembled the cry of a crane. That mountain was variegated with shala trees. The apes and elephants on it were affrighted. The birds that had their abode on it rose up and wheeled around in the welkin. The snakes began to dart down its sides. It resounded also with the cries of leopards and bears in large numbers that ran hither and thither in fear. Other forests on it rang with the cries of hundreds upon hundreds of animals. Sharabhas and lions suddenly ran out. In consequence of all this that mountain, though it was reduced to a very pitiable plight, still assumed a very beautiful aspect. The vidyadharas dwelling on its summits soared into the air. The kinnaras also became very anxious, distracted by the fear caused by the fall of Skanda's dart. The daityas then, by hundreds and thousands, came out of that blazing mountain, all clad in beautiful ornaments and garlands.

The followers of Kumara, prevailing over them in battle, slew them all. The adorable Skanda, inflamed with rage, quickly slew the son ofdaitya chief (Bali) along with his younger brother, even as Indra had slain Vritra (in days before). The slayer of hostile heroes, Agni's son, pierced with his dart the Kraunca mountain, dividing his own self sometimes into many and sometimes uniting all his portions into one. Repeatedly hurled from his hand, the dart repeatedly came back to him. Even such was the might and glory of the adorable son of Agni. With redoubled heroism, and energy and fame and success, the god pierced the mountain and slew hundreds of daityas. The adorable god, having thus slain the enemies of the celestials, was worshipped and honoured by the latter and obtained great joy.

After the Kraunca mountain had been pierced and after the son of Canda had been slain, drums were beaten, O king, and conchs were blown. The celestial ladies rained floral showers in succession upon that divine lord of yogis. Auspicious breezes began to blow, bearing celestial perfumes. The gandharvas hymned his praises, as also great rishis always engaged in the performance of sacrifices. Some speak of him as the puissant son of the Grandsire, Sanat-kumara, the eldest of all the sons of Brahma. Some speak of him as the son of Maheshvara, and some as that of Agni. Some again describe him as the son of Uma or of the Krittikas or of Ganga. Hundreds and thousands of people speak of that Lord of yogis of blazing form and great might, as the son of one of those, or of either of two of those, or of any one of four of those.
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Can't we just leave it at Kartikeya and Ganesh are brothers? Does it really matter who is older and younger?
Posted: 12 years ago
Just a question out of curiosity, its related to two episodes in this week.
How did Nandi know what's happening at Daksh's palace? If they have special powers then how come Nandi got to know so late that Daskh banished those created Vishnuji's murti.
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by sattvik


Can't we just leave it at Kartikeya and Ganesh are brothers? Does it really matter who is older and younger?

Actually, one of the purposes of this thread is indeed to explore all sorts of trivia related to the various gods.  I agree, in the larger scheme of things, it doesn't matter, but since I've seen Ganesh being described as an elder brother in the Livermore temple in CA, whereas I had previously always known him to be younger, I brought up that question.

This wasn't, and neither was it meant to be, an argument - I was just trying to logically put together the events in the version where Ganesh was the elder.
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by bharat9


Just a question out of curiosity, its related to two episodes in this week.
How did Nandi know what's happening at Daksh's palace? If they have special powers then how come Nandi got to know so late that Daskh banished those created Vishnuji's murti.
 Curtesy Narad, when he came to meet Kailash for the 1st time in the show, told about Sati & Nandi was eager to get Devi in Kailash. Nandi told Shivji about Shilpakaar community when they reached Kailash, they had started their journey some days back.
I had read once Bheem in Mahabharat, was a very big Mahadev devotee. Once Narad saw Shivji's ganas carring many Bail patras, he asked them from where theve've got so many bail leaves, they replied, it is Bheem  with each chant of Om Namah Shivay, mentally is offering 1 bail patra, this is that nirmalya we are carrying. In the simillar manner Nandi must have known about shivji's name being written on Lotus flowers he went to collect.
Edited by mnx12 - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
hey I have question...can anyone tell me the story y Shiva throw his Trishul To Brahma n cut his fifth head?u can it was showen in yesterday epi that this is the reason Daksh hate Shiva...n also in the cut scene of Vishnu n Brahma Narad mentioned about this...
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by deboleena.manna


hey I have question...can anyone tell me the story y Shiva throw his Trishul To Brahma n cut his fifth head?u can it was showen in yesterday epi that this is the reason Daksh hate Shiva...n also in the cut scene of Vishnu n Brahma Narad mentioned about this...


Here i made a thread on the topic will be adding more on it

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/topic/2657806

Regards
Sia
Posted: 12 years ago
im  confused..its regarding Chandra or Soma
in the show Revati is shown to be the daughter of Daksh and wife of Chandra-who married 27 of Dakshas daughters who are said to be the 27 nakshatras,
but however if i clearly remember Revati is supposed to be the wife of Balram Krishnas brother
can someone please clear my doubt
Posted: 12 years ago
^^^^  Balarama's Revathy is a completely different Revathy 😆  She has nothing to do w/ Daksha - in fact, she was the daughter of a King Revatha, who lived in the Satya Yuga.  Daksha's Revathy was married to Chandra.
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by shruti.nil


im  confused..its regarding Chandra or Soma
in the show Revati is shown to be the daughter of Daksh and wife of Chandra-who married 27 of Dakshas daughters who are said to be the 27 nakshatras,
but however if i clearly remember Revati is supposed to be the wife of Balram Krishnas brother
can someone please clear my doubt
Both the Revati's are different. This is the story of  the beginning of the creation. Balaram, Krishna's brother was in Dwapar Yuga, still Vishnuji's Rama incarnation has to happen. Shivji was with Parvatiji, when Rama was born.

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