\|/Doubts & Discussions about Lord Shiva Part-1\|/ - Page 10

Posted: 12 years ago
I have questions.  South Indian tradition, unlike North Indian, has Ganesh as elder to Kartikeya.  As is well known, in the versions that have Kartikeya as older, the reason the Devas tried to get Shiva to marry Parvati was that it was their son who was destined to kill Tarakasura & Surapadman, which is why they went to extents such as trying to get Kama to distract Shiva, w/ dire consequences.  Finally, after Shiva married Parvati, they begat Kartikeya who went to war against the asuras and killed them.

In fact, in one of the stories about Ganesh (from the ACK Ganesh), it describes how Kartikeya too fought Ganesh when Shiva sent everybody against him to break the obstacle to his entry to Parvati's private chambers.  So that would support the contention that Kartikeya was older.

My questions is - in the accounts that have Ganesh as older, do they
  1. Have the devas try and get Shiva to marry Parvati to fight Surapadman, or is Shiva already married to her when that need arises?
  2. If Surapadman was already persecuting the Devas and Shiva had granted this boon that he won't be killed by any force except Shiva's, then couldn't Ganesh have fought & killed him?
  3. If the killing of Surapadman was not the reason Kartikeya was born (in the version where he is younger), then were there any other circumstances that necessitated his birth?  Or did Mahadev or Parvati simply want another son?
  4. Does the younger Kartikeya have 6 heads, like in the case of the older Kartikeya, due to his being the sons of Agni, Vayu, Shravan, the Kritikeyas, Ganga and Parvati?
Okay, these are the ones I can think of for now.  But I wanted to know more about Kartikeya as described in Southern scriptures.  The Northern ones, I more or less know - the reason Kartikeya was born and the killing of Tarakasura, Simhamukha & Surapadman.
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
@Vrish-I just know that Lord Shiva bless Tarakasur n grant his one wish that only the sone of Shiva can kiil him...but Deva's won't force Shiva for marriege...Devi Parvati did a very hard Tapasya n impressed Lord Shiva..then Shiva agree to marry her..then Devi Parvati creat Ganesh who only obey her orders...when Tatakasur attack Devas then Indra n all Devas went to Brahma n Vishnu...they told them that only son of Shiva can kill him...then they request to Brahma n Vishnu to do something..then Brahma n Vishnu told Shiva n Parvati about this..n then Kartikeya born..but his life was in danger..Tarakasur was decided to kill the child..so Devi Ganga came infront take the responsiblity of the child in her hand...n take him to Surganga...there she n her sisters whos r known by Saptganga did the parvarish of Kartikeya...n when he grew up he returned to Kailash..n then he took training of fighting from Ganesha..n then he killed Tarakasur..
Posted: 12 years ago
deboleena

Thanks for your response.  It however begs the question - if Ganesh already existed, and Shiva had told Taraka in advance that it's his son who would kill him, then why couldn't Ganesh have killed him?

The Northern version makes sense - Shiva granted that boon in b/w Sati's demise and Parvati's marriage to him.  Due to that, the devas were impatient that they marry, and sacrificed Kama in the process.  Later, Parvati got married, and since Shiva was simply enjoying the marriage, the devas had to remind him about their need for his son, and then he gave Agni the 6 sparks to take w/ him, and the rest is history.  Point here - since Ganesh didn't exist, a son had to be created to kill Taraka, et al.

But in the other version, where Ganesh does exist, what is the explanation for Kartikeya having to be created?  Aside from simply maybe Shiva's or Parvati's desire?
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
@Vrish Ganesha is not Shiva's biological son...Parvati creat him...she use Haldi paste as a cream in her body n then clean her body n n use that haldi for creating Ganesha..
hope u understand this..😛..my english is not that good...😆
Posted: 12 years ago
Your English is fine 😊  Anyway, Ganesh was always recognized as Parvati's son, and as per the scriptures, that made him Shiva's son as well.  In the ACK, they showed Shiva worried after he had killed Ganesh that since Ganesh was Parvati's son, that made him his son as well, since
  1. Parvati was already married to him when she created Ganesh, and didn't have him 'out of wedlock'
  2. There were no other alternative parents that could claim to father Ganesh, so Shiva couldn't exactly disclaim that he was his father.
After Ganesh got an elephant head, Shiva told Parvati that he'd be recognized as his son as well.
Anyway, did the boon Taraka got explicitly say that the son of Shiva has to be a biological son?  I'm referring only to the versions that have Ganesh as older.  In the cases where Kartikeya was older, that question is irrelevant.
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by .Vrish.


Anyway, did the boon Taraka got explicitly say that the son of Shiva has to be a biological son?  

Well, Skanda was not exactly a biological son of Parvati either. He was created thru six sparks that emanated from Shiva's head. 

Good question - I will get back tomorrow with a detailed answer.


Posted: 12 years ago
^^^^  Thanks - I look forward to an explanation to my original question - why couldn't Ganesh take out Taraka (in the account that has him as older).  Incidentally, this question was inspired by your fantastic riddle in the Game of the Week thread in the MM forum. 👏
Posted: 12 years ago
hey Vrish I don't know clearly but may b his boon is that only Shiva's biological son can kill him..
 
my question...according to the myth Aditi is Daksh's elder daughter n she marry a rishi(forgot the name) n gave birth to Indra..n After Aditi Rohini's marriege held...but in the show DKDM Rohini is married n also Indra present..but Aditi is still unmarried..n she lives in Daksh's palace with Khyati n Sati..how?
Posted: 12 years ago
Deboleena

As discussed in the previous pages, Aditi was married to Kashyap, and her eldest son was Surya, then Indra.  It's an interesting question as to why Indra, & not Surya, became ruler of the Devas.

At any rate, if they are showing Aditi, Diti, et al as unmarried, that's a clear howler.  They are correct in showing Indra & the devas, but they were all grandsons of Daksha.  The devas were guests of Daksha in the yagna where Sati was insulted and ended her being, and even @ the time of Shiva's marriage to her, the devas were among the attendees.  So none of Daksha's daughters - Khyatti, Aditi, Diti, et al ought to be shown here as unmarried.

A different thing that strikes me is how all the daughters were married to rishis, be it Kashyap, Bhrigu, etc.  Exception being Rohini, Revathy & the other 25 who were married to Chandra, while Rati was married to Kama.  Was there such a shortage of devas, gandharvas & yakshas that a whole bunch of daughters had to share the same hubbies?

P.S.  As Varaali points out above, Kartikeya was not a biological son either - like Ganesh, he too was created externally from the 6 sparks that Mahadev gave Agni.
Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
@Vrish but according to Surya Puran Surya is already exist b4 Aditi n rishi Kashyap's marriege..n Indra do the tapasya to Surya n Surya blesed him n make him the king of all Devas..n Dhriti gave the birth of Rakshas...n in the show they r showing Aditi..is she already married?bcoz Aditi who is Indra's mother is live in Asram with her husband..then y she is here?is this Aditi another daughter of Daksh?

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