Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon


Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon
Iss Pyaar Ko Kya Naam Doon

Startling Differences KKG/ASR (Page 5)

zainza IF-Dazzler

Joined: 26 November 2010
Posts: 3306

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by napstermonster

I think this whole ASR versus Khushi realization track has been done deliberately, and I really hope Im not giving the CVs too much credit here. ASR does not care about hurting others, or peoples' happiness in general, his world is his Di, and he exists for himself and for her. He has been pretty upfront with himself, and his inner monologue is direct. He has the freedom for self examination, because he has only himself to think of, and his own reactions are all he considers. Khushi puts herself last, and while that irritates the hell out of me, this has been a consistent character trait, and in this instance, it means she wont give herself the luxury of examining a desire and longing she feels she has no right to. Think of how ASR speaks to himself in complete sentences, dwelling on things, replaying events again and again. In direct contrast,  Khushi wont even allow herself to finish a thought, interrupting her own mind as if she cant even have him inner world. She mentally imagines them together and then cuts things off mid scene, tries to force herself to sleep, or goes and makes jalebis.

Several facets of Khushi's personality that we know from the start kind of contribute to her current frozen mindset-first, of course, is that she has no good goddamn clue what the physical feelings that ASR stirs in her are. When she's being stalked like a doe in the woods, she seems to have about as much idea as Bambi would about what this brooding intense guy wants from her.  She reacts, of course, but why she is reacting is as much a mystery  to her as her ability to always buy matching hair and kameez pompoms is to me.

ASR, he knows whats going on with him physically, and so can focus on his reactions to Khushi emotionally (and by the way, if I see one more grammatically/ butchered " Is ASR VARGIN?"  type post from our resident 13 year olds, I will shoot myself).

Finally there is the issue of her being trained since childhood to mask her emotions, and always, always make sure she's not going to be left behind by a loved one by being the one who protects others, and that has now stretched to include ASR's family/Lavaniya.

She responded to him during Diwali, but the shot that resonated for me  was how she focused on Lavaniya's head on his shoulders, and smiled through her tears for Lavaniya's sake as well when she was brought back to the party. There was the scene where she needed to feed everyone sweets to be included somehow even in the breaking of her own heart. She wont be offering that battered organ to the man who woke it up, and then strangled it, all in one go.

She then got engaged to Shyam, and I for one would have had a problem with physical Rabba Ve moments between the two of them, while Khushi has voluntarily engaged herself to another man.  She still does not know that La is not going to marry ASR, and so any heart rending sighs and sobs would be out of place for her to indulge in, because she truly wants La's happiness, and wont betray her, or her own self respect. I commend that,

Now, if the journey to allowing herself to fall in love with him fully doesn't start after the Payash engagement when she knows they are both footloose and fancy free, the CVs will have an angry monster on their hands, and I don't mean the Rakshas, I mean me...


loved the bit that i've highlighted in i wanted to kill myself seeing those posts about arnav being

princessunara IF-Stunnerz

Joined: 06 December 2007
Posts: 48998

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by HeadOverHeels

Originally posted by princessunara

Originally posted by mommamia

Originally posted by HeadOverHeels

Khushi has been so much battered from all sides... Just when she thought she had some feelings ASR crushed it. And she was dreaming about a main who was too high for her. She knew it. She felt encouragement from him and than the kiss scene. And it was all gone. Later on life thought her another bitter lesson. That not to trust people. There can be dual faced monsters.  I still doubt that CVs will show anything from her end towards ASR. I want ASR to be make her feel that she is that someone special in his life and repeat the same dialogues what he wanted to tell her but said in front of a wrong person. That will trigger something in Khushi's brain.Till then I really have no hopes.

Yes, but that's exactly it. He crushed her hopes, and feelings too probably. But he also did the same to himself. And in a worse way... He battered himself, lied to himself, ignored, played mean, played cruel, pushed her, pushed her away, announced an engagement in the hopes of running, everything... But his progress was still evident. Nothing crushed what he was really developing for her in terms of feelings, and it was shown. Not so with KKG... It's like she was suddenly taken with him at Diwali, crushed and then didn't feel anything again. Where are her growing feelings? Where are the feelings she's trying to suppress? Where is her turmoil over allowing herself to feel or refusing to? We get nothing from her in terms of that. If this is a story about two people's journey to finding love with each other, then show it being about the TWO people kwim?

di I'll answer that part in red...
One question, have u ever known someone with Khushi's characteristics?that impulsive jovial nature and happy go lucky, who bounces back no matter what happens?no matter how screwed up everything is may be after a good soul cleansing crying jag seems to act as if nothing is wrong?
well if u knew someone like that..u won't say these happy go lucky, seemingly very light hearted types use this joy as a defense mechanism..i really can't explain what it is..but for someone like that when they r faced with a problem there comes two solutions to mind..

first being, keep on thinking of it and get confused & depressed even more..
the second is start on a clean slate, pretend as if nothing happened..almost unconsciously make that decision that 'I am no longer going to care about it cz thinking about it will not make what happened to rewind' these people pretend even to themselves, or rather it would be right to say that they convince themselves of is not living a lie..they simply accept this second option.and it gives them the strength to move on and genuinely be happy up to a certain extend despite the pain...

and the reason the 1st option is out is, these outwardly happy go lucky types actually care, care so much that the pain will be unbearable and then they'll be the first to break if they do not use this naturally built in defense it isn't the apparent immaturity that everyone else sees when they look at such a person..

so well, i think i can kind of understand why khushi is doing it and how she can bring herself to react like that..

n @the 1st post..definitely it brought out startling differences to the forefront for us to observe..and i really loved that final scene where she comes back to get blessings for Arnav & Lavanya..her hesitation..a small faltering in her resolve..but once again as if she is literally shaking this feeling off her head she takes the blessings on their behalf with an unsteady hand and goes away..

so hopefully she might let hope to enter her heart once again,  n soon...

I understand happy go lucky people, and that's not my point at all. She can be happy go lucky all through the show, but as someone already pointed out, this show is about her and him, not him and his feelings for her, and her and everyone else's feelings BUT what she feels for him. It's not being shown, it's as simple as that. Otherwise, add a little more maturity to her and she's good to go. Hope that makes sense.

oh it makes sense to me! it is actually the sensible thing to do and show...but what i tried to say is what is happening or is being shown with her is also a possible/natural thing..

but there as was said in another post..once Khushi sees the dynamics change..abt them both being free..we'll (hopefully) get to see her giving herself the time of the day rather than other people..

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kitty25 Goldie

Joined: 28 August 2009
Posts: 2201

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by sayani_monaya

Originally posted by meera30

Given the popularity of some of the other soaps, I can only say that the CVs created Khushi and then suddenly realized that she was too smart to be a TV bahu...So ta of the spunkiest female leads on TV takes the safer route..doormat, ocean of tears, ability to smile through her tears...Yep..way to go Khushi Kumari Gupta
u r being a bit 2 harsh..hw cn u xpct her 2 tell anjali such a big truth wen d latter got soo devasted ovr such a petty issue???she knws shyam is a cheat,but doesnt knw he is an evil person as well..dats y she wants anjali-shyam's relationship 2 work..
Atleast she can tell about that snake to ASR. He should know about that snake then only he can protect ANJALI from him.

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dnyd Goldie

Joined: 08 June 2006
Posts: 1224

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:12pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by FairyLiquidSoap

I guess the vital difference is they are at different stages in their grieving process. While he has worked his way through the 7 stages of grief pretty well starting from shock and denial to pain and guilt and is now very much on the acceptance and hope part of his process she is still in the first stage of shock and denial with a bit of anger thrown in and probably has just started the bargaining part

I guess her coping mechanism was to crush any vestige of feelings she felt for him especially after he made her feel like a mercenary tramp right after she freely and willingly gave herself to him symbolically. Any woman would feel dirty and cheap after a man were to discard them like they were tawdry play toy that he had no use for anymore. Every time she tried to look for some redeeming quality in him that would make her feel that her response to him was not wrong, alas he only reinforced that belief and also made her feel she was his dirty little secret best kept private between them. I guess she decided in the end to erase any vestige of emotion she had for him if she wanted to retain her respect and sanity.

The irony today is that he is slowly but surely falling in love with her and she has surely but slowly fallen out of  love . Poetic Justice!Wink

Absolutely loved how u put it. Esp the last line. Truly poetic Justice. If the CVS in any way don't make Arnav realize how severely he has damaged the poor girls heart and make him repent and Woo her, I'm gonna be dissappointed. But I am sure they will. He knows now he owes her an apology, hence that scene with Lavanya where he took Khushis name while apologizing to LA. Anyhow I have faith. If they can give a wonderful Payal apology scene and a beautiful La Asr breakup scene im sure were in for a treat.

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SunriseGreen IF-Dazzler

Joined: 23 December 2007
Posts: 3155

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
I think the CV's need to show some balance between all that's going on right now and all that's going on with ASR-KKG. Right now, they're just focusing on Shyaam, PaYash, Anjali, etc. They seem to have forgotten that this show is mainly about a love story. 

It sure does seem like Khushi has deliberately forgotten about what she feels for Arnav because she's 1) sure that there's no way he'll ever reciprocate his feelings because of all that he said & did ever since the almost-kiss scene 2) too preoccupied with the problems in the two families. 

I didn't see anything wrong in her character when she chose not to tell the truth to Anjali. It's part of her character to put others before herself. Yes, it is really wrong to hide such a thing from Anjali, but I do think she took the mangalsutra scene as a sign that this marriage could be saved and that Anjali is too emotionally weak to handle the truth. 

So for now, she has buried her feelings for Arnav behind her tendency to forget quickly about anything that gives her pain and has escaped to her world where everything is ok. She doesn't want to think about the part of her life with Arnav in it anymore, especially not when her family & the Raizada's are facing such a huge dilemma. 

Personally, I feel the CV's should have the weight of the blame for this problem with KKG's character. They NEED to show her pondering on her feelings for Arnav just like Arnav did. They're handling her character well in terms of how she deals with familial problems & relationships, but they're not handling the way an 18 year old girl would deal with an infatuation (Yes, I also do not believe it's love from her side.) 

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cxw1065 Senior Member

Joined: 10 November 2006
Posts: 250

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 2:02pm | IP Logged
I have been thrilled by the quality of the responses on this thread, and am so grateful to the topic starter for it.

May I be bold enough to share my opinions-- many of you have already said what I want to with great clarity, but I feel almost compelled to write!

I can understand the feeling that some of us have, which is that the show is currently concentrating too much on the other characters, and not enough on KKG/ASR.  My take on that is that the CVs have learnt from the mistakes they made with their last show, the late and much missed Geet.  In that show, they had concentrated on the main couple to the exclusion of almost all others, leaving the show very difficult to handle when the main actors needed to go on holiday etc.  For this reason, I feel that the CVs have kept the other characters in play- they've given them storylines, development, backgrounds etc.

Even back in the early episodes, Payal was never just an after-thought; the Payash relationship has been developed well and is now progressing nicely; I wouldn't be surprised if Payal's trials at the hands of her MIL as well as Akash's reaction to the fact that Payal kept such a huge secret from him are further story twists.  After all, we must remember that in two of the qawwali sequences, Payash were picturised almost as much as KKG/ASR

It is also important to keep the other actors happy and satisfied-- whilst I would love to see constant KKG/ASR-- there would be a great risk of losing good character actors such as the the ladies playing Naniji, Mamiji, Buaji; as well as the stalwarts playing Babuji and my personal fave Mamaji..  The last thing this show needs is to be reliant only on two actors-- this is not healthy either for them or the storyline; spreading the load is a great way to go

(For example, I wouldn't be surprised if BS had a little time off around his anniversary-- but we haven't really noticed, as the other storylines have been developed; also when SI had time to go to her friends wedding in Delhi, it wasn't really too much of a problem)

Those of us who came from Geet can tell you-- this decision to share the burden around is a good thing.  It will only help to increase the longevity of the show.

When we come to the on-screen development-- character development in other words:

From my perspective, KKG and ASR are in very different places, both emotionally and in their lives. KKG started out WILLING to love, whilst ASR started out like a hibernating tortoise-- his heart hidden away in a shell.  

Their interactions have changed them both- softening ASR, and hardening KKG-- can you imagine the ASR from the start of the show allowing La to cry on his shoulder, can you imagine him saying he respected her-- I certainly can't. He has changed, gradually, little by little.  He is fighting with every breath in his body, with every fibre of his being.  Having been hurt so badly in the past, he cannot bear to think that there might be someone in front of whom he is so helpless.  He fights the only way he knows how, with cruelty and absolute ruthlessness.  But the speech he gave La, that tells us-- everytime he hurts KKG, he regrets it-- to the point where he is now unwilling to hurt her further.  And in thinking of KKG, he has started to think of others (specifically La) and that is huge character development.  I could write so much more, but I think others have already said it all.

KKG has developed-- she is no longer the happy-go-lucky girl we met.  KKG has been battered and bruised from the moment she met ASR.  She met him at the moment that her view of the world was already battered by demands for dahej by the man she had thought would be a good husband for her beloved sister.  ASR showed her repeatedly how cruel the world could be, battering her self confidence further and further into the ground as he demonstrated the power of money. 

She continued to try and believe, somehow being drawn towards him, feeling feelings, attraction, some emotions she had never felt before and in all likelihood had never even contemplated.  Her ideas of love were extremely romantic-- we heard her say to her sister "we thought a prince would come on a horse to carry us away"-- she didn't realise that love could start with attraction, with lust. To be honest, she didn't know what lust was.

When ASR came close to her on Diwali, she almost gave in-- but to be honest, I don't think that was love, I think that was overwhelming physical attraction, with a developing liking, affection- something that could have developed into love if ASR hadn't crushed her.  Not only did he crush her that day, he continued to taunt her, torment her, and also made himself untouchable by engaging himself to La. Considering the way he had treated her in the past-- you could almost think that she would see this as another way of punishing her (a more subtle way than making her stand in pouring rain, but still a punishment).  

From that day till now, she has put a lid on her feelings- she has stopped allowing herself anything. Sometimes her feelings break out, sometimes the hurt and baffled attraction are still there (as in the shopping scene) but then he does something else to hurt her and she retreats further into her shell.

She doesn't love him, not yet-- she is still attracted to him, but won't even let her inner-self think about that.  It's not acceptable to think about a friend's husband/mangetar, so she won't let herself do that-- not even in her inner thoughts.

And to be honest, having had such a massive blow from him, she's probably glad to try and forget her slip and instead concentrate on the rest of the mess that her life is right now.  First there was the whole thing with Payash, and then the complete blow about Shyam.  She may not have had any feelings for him, but she is a good traditional girl-- I truly believe that the character would have tried really really hard to be a good wife to him.  Imagine if Shyam hadn't have been the cheater that he is-- of course she would have done her best to be faithful to him, both physically and emotionally.  Whilst they (KKG/ASR) were both engaged to other people, she would never let herself develop feelings, or even allow herself to think that there was anything to feel.  She would quite happily deny her attraction even to the depths of her inner self

As to whether she was right to do what she did regarding telling Anjali-- I think she did the only thing she could.  She knows Anjali, she knows how weak she is, she knows how dependant on her husband she is.  Anjali is the type of person I feel so sorry for, but she is realistic.  She has been shown to be emotionally scarred, both by losing her parents/the breakup of her first wedding, and by her physical problems.  So for her to have someone who she believes loves her-- it is the underpinning fact of her self-respect and self-belief.  If she loses Shyam, she will die (if not truly, then emotionally).  And though we don't like that, though we wish that women like that didn't exist-- they do, and the characterisation of Anjali is very realistic.  KKG did the only thing she could- in this situation.  She is doing all she can, in my opinion, in this situation.  However, I do believe that if she knew about Shyam's murderous attack on her dad, she would NOT hide things-- at the moment, all that has been hurt is her family's honour, and she can deal with that.

So, in my opinion, right now, we are exactly where we should be:  ASR has changed, become more like KKG in some ways, softened, has started to acknowledge that there are other people he might love apart from his family.  He's accepted that he is wrong in some situations.  He has not, IMHO, accepted yet that KKG is reponsible for this-- at least not accepted it fully.  I think any acceptance will be delayed MASSIVELY by Shyam's revelation

KKG on the other hand has become more like ASR- less trusting, less willing to keep giving ASR chances, less willing to see only the good in people.  

They have developed- they have both developed immensely.  I think the CVs are playing the clever game-- they are allowing people to go on the journey with the characters, accepting that the viewers are at least clever enough to see the way that these people are changing.

What will happen when ASR and KKG marry (and yes, I truly believe that a forced-marriage/marriage of convenience is where we are headed)- that is a journey I am keen to go on.  If the CVs continue along this path, ASR will not tell anyone else why he is marrying KKG, whilst KKG will be hurt/angry/devastated that he thinks of her that was and hate him for forcing her to marry him, especially when she thinks he hates her.

The two of them will be in a position where their hearts are totally closed off to each other-- and then love will strike.  Love, that inexorable juggernaut will overwhelm them both.  Who gives in first is an interesting question, but eventually they will be together.  I'm looking forward to the journey!!!!!!!!

(btw, napstermonster, I second your thought-- seriously, good punctuation and grammar are so desirable, and who really cares about ASR's sex life)

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savvz Senior Member

Joined: 28 April 2006
Posts: 888

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 10:55pm | IP Logged
so true...
khushi is still a child...
Marybarton IF-Rockerz

Joined: 12 October 2011
Posts: 5991

Posted: 15 December 2011 at 11:18pm | IP Logged
Great post HeadoverHeels! I am not sure if the CVs thought so hard about Khushi's progress as a character but here are a few things that come to mind in regard to her emotions. I am answering generally to some of the concerns brought up in the Forum.
1. She is only 18 years old, she lives in a world where mommy and daddy take care of things and she is only just learning to be independent since the first episode. She wants everyone around her to be happy.

2. This mature man-snake in her life is very disturbing to her and she is confused. She things that ignoring him will make him go away and problems solve themselves. Let me say as a girl close her age, avoiding the creep who gets to close is the only thing a young girl can do sometimes. Taking on the big things like breaking someone else's relationship with the creep feels too adult and dangerous. Plus, there is so much at stake for her. She is not being weak by not telling Anjali, she is protecting a weak Anjali. For Khushi the strong will is to protect relationships, not break them.

3. I think she recognizes that she has a major crush on her Lord Governor, but she doesn't realize it is love. She is after all a decade behind Arnav, she does not know now to separate feelings related to romance. She does not know this is love yet. It hurts her yes, but when she tried to move toward his direction he pushed her back and he treated her with contempt. So now she is hurt and dejected. She feels unworthy of him and doesn't know that he crush returns her feelings with love.

4. Even when you are a strong willed girl, if the object of your affection says something to hurt you, tears is the first thing to resort to because the pain goes to the core. I don't think she is like all the other TV bahus because she cries a lot. No other TV husband is as rude as Arnav is to her. And his feelings matter to her an awful lot, so her crying is justified to me.

5. Finally, I think the character so far has been pretty consistent. She did not do anything that felt out of character for her. But that is just my personal opinion.

Edited by Marybarton - 15 December 2011 at 11:19pm

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