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Ostracizing Rupal : Very unfair (Page 4)

tiny15 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 7:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by intruderfast

naa anupditto, the more the merrierBig smilei very much like ur posts even though there r clash of opinions
@tiny, Hugkaise ho, itne dino baad, main yahaan ka updater hoon aur tum mera update bhi nahin padti
thanx 4 welcum anmol!!SmileSmile my laptop was at service center 4 repair so i cudn't visit forums regularly!! but now i"ll b regular & really this show is putting me off esply IMV & his tactics.
 
as i never found them 2 b learnt 2 bcum a successful businessman/woman!!! hes representing the D-grade business tactics!!DeadDead
 
@koolsandhu i know ur viewpoint is v. difft from mine but reading sum of ur points i thought that u really don't find middle class ppl & values r gud enough!! sorry 4 misunderstanding!!
 
and i  never saw any1 as white or black  only but here neither of IMV's actions justify him being anti-hero!!anti-hero's defn shud b the hero like in our old 70s & 80s movies where he got injustices from all quarters of society & esply from villain & then he try 2 avenge it but never hurt innocent ppl & atleast he never left his moral values!!
 
 

koolsadhu1000 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 7:35am | IP Logged
and i  never saw any1 as white or black  only but here neither of IMV's actions justify him being anti-hero!!anti-hero's defn shud b the hero like in our old 70s & 80s movies where he got injustices from all quarters of society & esply from villain & then he try 2 avenge it but never hurt innocent ppl & atleast he never left his moral values!!
 
 Thats NOT the definition of an anti hero tiny . What you are describing is a HERO . An ANTI HERO is the main protagonist who does negative things but due to reasons of his OWN ...not coz he is born a bad seed . Shahrukh in Darr was an Anti hero . In the seventies , Shatrughan Sinha brought this genre first in Hindi movies .  There is a difference between an anti hero and a villain . An anti hero is neither a hero nor a villain . He is GREY . He does many bad things but in the end , SOMETHING changes him internally . In IMV's case , it will be Devki's innocence and her immense respect for him . Somewhere along the line , it will penetrate his heart . Not so soon , we have a long way to go .
 
 
tiny15 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 7:55am | IP Logged
Originally posted by koolsadhu1000

Tiny ...Smile
.
My viewpoint is totally different than yours . I see this serial with my viewpoint .
i agree on this!!
I do not even want to get into an argument where I want to justify my viewpoint as correct and yours as wrong . I feel , to each his own . I totally respect yours even if we differ .
i m also of the view that ppl've difft POV but still theres dif, btn gud & bad!!
That said ...I wish to make some things clear coz I feel that u misunderstand my posts .
 
tiny , nowhere am I saying IMV is a great person or that he does 'PUNYA" . Infact everywhere I say that IMV is the bad guy . But if you really want my opinion ...IMV is neither the hero nor totally a villain . He is an anti hero . For the first time , an Indian serial has dared to show something new ...it has built its story around an aging anti hero . Without IMV , this serial falls . He does shocking deeds but he fascinates at the same time . WHY he does them ...as explained by HIM  is the fascinating factor for me and I notice even to some others .
 i agree it might b facinating but defntly doesn't've higher place than moral values!!
I have never said being middle class is BAD . I  come from a middle class background myself and my father ran a house of  seven entirely on one salary .I respect middle class values intensely . Infact I am PROUD of them . When I said 'thrust middle class values'  on Rupal ...I mean making an issue of middle class values and forcing it down some one's throat and not allowing that person to dream anything different other than the normal dreams of a middle class person . It is rare that a middle class person decides to be an actor or a business man . Its not common . Most of them study , get jobs , take on responsibilities. I applaud that . But sometimes some rare one does dream differently . I applaud that too .
 i'd already asked sorry 4 misunderstanding. may b u'd misunderstand manhar & jyotsna's intentions 2. atleast wat i see is they never try 2 thrust them down her throat but they try 2 make her see their point. but she refused & she wants 2 live comfortably & it was clear from her outburst wen manhar's family decided 2 go away!! and they never asked her not 2 dream of bcuming business woman as they also support devki but the way she has chosen is totally wrong.
 
i know 1 thing & its even authored by sum author that consequences of our actions is so wide & vast that we never know wat "ll happen is gud or not. so here only one's intentions matter which decide that that action wa sright or wrong!!
 
and i also appluad those prsns who achieve sumthing despite from middle class. though i've sum respect 4 Tatas or Ambanis 2 make it big esply Dhirubhai Ambani but still they r not my role model. they"ll b defntly from the ppl in jobs whether govt. or pvt.
I do not think being a muncipality school teacher is something faltoo or bad either . If someone wants to be that , very good . But there may be someone who does NOT want to be that . Even THAT is good .
 then why rupal blasted sonal 4 letting them live in less comfortable place?if she didn't want 2  b teacher & wants 2 b business woman then its ok but she shudn't've left her family wen they needed her support.
Clearly I have mentioned that I think teaching is a noble profession . So is being a priest . These professions have , in my opinion a spiritual base . They are not ordinary at all .
 i agree though i m myself can't teach any class as i find it difficult 2 make understand ur point 2 students though it may b of the lesson or chapter!!LOL
I don't know from where u got the idea that I look down on middle class people, values and teachers ...I never said that . What I said was I don't look down on those aspring to be rich as something bad .
 
IMV's bad deeds do NOT justify Viraj's yellow journalism . Two wrongs do NOT make one right . Like Teaching , journalism too is a noble profession . I have been in journalism .  What Viraj is doing is SLANDER . Thats the term . Before printing something u have to take the permission of the source . Without verifying with Devki or Sonal he printed it just like that ...That paper will be closed down if it is sued for millions of rupees for defamation by a business tycoon .
 though i agree that two wrongs can never make one right but thats also true in case of IMV. and though he shudn't printed it widout devki or manhar's family's permission but in case of IMV i don't find it bad or wrong. as i believe in Lord Krishna's teachings that 2 stop the adharma from being victorious over dharma if sum1 has 2 employ wrong means then its right  & worth the hundred Punyas!!
and bat sueing thats up2 show's director wat he"ll show abt the IMV's rxn!!SmileSmile
Viraj can indeed PRINT it , but with PROOF that can back him up .Otherwise Viraj is defaming not just IMV but destroying peace of full Virani house and can cause great loss to the OWNER of that newspaper . This is not right as Viraj is merely a chief reporter , not the owner or editor . THAT was my point , not that IMV is doing PUNYA .
 yeah hes doing harm 2 his newspaper's owner & he hsud really b careful of IMV!!
I have ALREADY said that Rupal not learning business has been put on hold due to Devki track and that Rupal explained that she came back to learn how to make MONEY . CVS have currently decided to focus on Devki .
 may b its on hold but wen they can show nirali opting 4 horse race betting carrer though in tit-bits then they cud'd shown rupal also getting sum tips from IMV but no shes always shown sitting lesiourly sipping tea or coffee or having food wid whole of family or playing wid sid's kid or chatting wid nirali!!
 
I do NOT see Rupal as mean and selfish AT ALL .
 i don't agree on it as i find her quite a selfish gal!!
I do NOT see IMV as Count Dracula either .
 i may agree that IMV isn't Count Dracula & i simply wrote in reply abt being sadhu!!
About Manhar's ethics . Like u , many from my family r government employees too . When one sits on a jury or an enquiry commitee or any important government commitee , he or she is expected to be ULTRA NEUTRAL . And if he or she faces a situation where that is compromised as he has to pass a judgement on family members , he can easily excuse himself by giving written statement to superiors , asking them to excuse him from that commitee as it puts him in a difficult and compromising position .Someone else can easily do that job . This is not running away from duty but infact is laudable from an ethical point of view . And since MASTER's ethics r thrashed around like nobody's business in this serial , i pointed this out .
 i don't agree on this point as i'd seen so many ppl who r in govt jobs & wen sum of their relative or frnds appear 4 the interviews etc. they don't & can't excuse themselves. u can also show ur ethics by choosing the best among the ppl who came 4ward 4 interview  etc.!!
and whereas manhar is concerned he didn't've 2 choose btn IMV & sim oder prsn but among 2 of his family members & he made it clear 2 IMV why committee'd chosen devki's proposal!!
 
I don't think this serial aims at showing anyone good or bad at all . It merely shows two different parallel tracks of thinking ... 2 different types of SOCH .  Capitalism and materialism has its own thought process and so does idealism . It is this tussle that is fascinating to watch and We r merely commenting on it , thats all .
 i think all 3 idealism, capitalism& materialism shud b in balance. i m not saying 4 having ideals u shudn't've capital but 4 money moral values & ethics shudn't b compromised!!
Lets agree to disagree on this one .Smile
 
 ok!!Smile
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
tiny15 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 8:02am | IP Logged
Originally posted by koolsadhu1000

and i  never saw any1 as white or black  only but here neither of IMV's actions justify him being anti-hero!!anti-hero's defn shud b the hero like in our old 70s & 80s movies where he got injustices from all quarters of society & esply from villain & then he try 2 avenge it but never hurt innocent ppl & atleast he never left his moral values!!
 
 Thats NOT the definition of an anti hero tiny . What you are describing is a HERO . An ANTI HERO is the main protagonist who does negative things but due to reasons of his OWN ...not coz he is born a bad seed . Shahrukh in Darr was an Anti hero . In the seventies , Shatrughan Sinha brought this genre first in Hindi movies .  There is a difference between an anti hero and a villain . An anti hero is neither a hero nor a villain . He is GREY . He does many bad things but in the end , SOMETHING changes him internally . In IMV's case , it will be Devki's innocence and her immense respect for him . Somewhere along the line , it will penetrate his heart . Not so soon , we have a long way to go .
 
 
i don''t think shahrukh in darr is anti hero as he was a psychotic ckt. and may b shatrughan'd done sum anti hero.& though antihero is always the prsn whos not bad but circumstances lead 2 bcum theif or gangstar like old movies abt "chambal ke dakus" they were grey but still they never harmed any innocent & they got changed bcoz of sum +ve hapenings occur in their lives!!
 
i don't think IMv"ll ever b shown  changed as his thinking was wrong from the childhood itself & only +ve thing was that he was shown 2 hav feeling of luv wen young but now i don't think he can go back as he had cum so far!!
tiny15 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 8:20am | IP Logged
Originally posted by bips

I always wonder - why is being materialistic looked on as such a bad thing ?
i m not against materialism totally but against getting through unethical & unlawful means!!and i believe in the saying in our scriptures "dharma se jo bhog(dhan or money) milta hai woh sukh or moksh dilwata hai par adharma se bhog patan kei aur le jaata hai!!"

tiny15, no one is justifying what IMV does but that doesn't mean that chest thumping morality is any better.
but dera it seems like this only!! whoever read it'll think it as justification as even my sis & mom who also watch it they also never find IMV as anti-hero as koolsandhu'd wrote & not even oder ppl who r watching it!!
Rupal came to meet her mom because her father was arrested. She was worried. She doesn't have the benefit of knowing IMV's nature like her mother or father. So when he says he didn't do it, she finds no reason to not believe him. Her mother making her the whipping-boy is not justified. Her mother ranted that she should go and continue taking "bheekh" not only from IMV but charu also.
i don't agree here wid u. she v.well know abt IMV's nature.shes staying in that household from the time shes born & does't know IMV. if its devki then i can believe as shes new & never knew him prsnlly but not rupal!!even vaibhav knows that IMV can do anything!!
Excuse me while i gag on the hypocrisy, You stay with IMV for years - he is the one who spends all the money on your food & living. You take all those luxuries but simultaneously put your nose in the air and lecture him on your superior morals and 'sanskars' at every turn.
But of course you graciously bore the burden of living in a palace, having been waited hand and foot by a dozen servants in the name of keeping the family together. How horrible and painful it must have been, no ?
yeah it must b painful 4 them 2 live in the golden cage & i think all ppl want 2 live in the golden cage where they r not allowed 2 dream anything else from being a business man/woman or horse race better!!
And where did uttaran come from ? That show is an absolute mess. And i was there for some time - no one said that what tapu did was justified. Barring one or two pakka fans, all people said that she made the show interesting and there were a lot of childhood insecurities and issues that resulted in her behaviour.
UT came as ppl also giving almost same justificns. u may find her interesting but not all ppl who r watching. and there r no 1or 2 fans but a whole bunch of them. and i'd only written abt UT in my post only 1 line & after i'd excused myself but u wrote whole justificn abt her!!
Why do people view characters in a simple black and white light ? There is a world of grey in between. Its pretty much the standard formula on tv,  rich-ambitious-BAD  and   poor-moral-GOOD.
as its a fact dear that ppl who r rich like IMV they r almost legally & morally corrupt but i agree taht all poor may not b moral!!
If corruption and manipulation are bad then self righteousness is no good either. If IMV doesn't like anyone going against them then jyotsna/manhar are pretty much the same - its their way or the highway. The difference is that IMV will get back at you by causing money problems whereas they will guilt and badger you emotionally.
but making sum1 guilty of their bad deeds is really comparable 2 IMV's tactics!!atleast making sum1 guilty like manhar's family did may create a gud prsn. but i don't think they deliberately did this as jyotsna's outburst was right & shes also right in rejecting her as she left them wen they needed her support!!
tiny15 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 8:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ssshhh

@ koolsadhu1000

A very well written post, but just a few disagreements.
 
True Manhar and Jyotsna hv been unfair with Rupal, but when Rupal came Jyotsna's frame of mind wasn't quite right and all the anger she was harbouring against IMV she spilled it out againt Rupal. Ttrue that does not excuse a mother's behaviour, but it's a very human reaction to have. (BTW they haven't shown Rupal working yet wid IMV and this shuld be rectified as tht was d reason shown for her returning to IMV's house).
 
The thought did cross my mind that how can Manhar be in the committee as his close relatives r the bidders? It's not only unethinical but also I think it must be against the rule as even when there r competitions, the fine print says tht participants cannot be relatives of ppl working for tht particular company. So d serial makers made a mistake there.
 
As far as Manhar going 2 the airport to inform Devki, it was shown melodramatically for impact...and I don't find anything wrong in Manhar informing D as all r concerned parties were informed.
@bold i agree as i myself'd written abt it!!
and whereas being manhar as committee's head or member wen his relatives r the bidders its not unusual as i m myself in govt. job & even i'd seen my relatives & seniors in such situations & its neither unethical nor illegal!! and it shows how unbiased u can b wen there r ur frnds or family members or known prsns or all 2gether cum in front of u by choosing the best among them considering their merit , intelligence & morality!!as u know in 2days world we strongly needed it esply in india!!
intruderfast IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 8:43am | IP Logged
Originally posted by tiny15

Originally posted by intruderfast

naa anupditto, the more the merrierBig smilei very much like ur posts even though there r clash of opinions
@tiny, Hugkaise ho, itne dino baad, main yahaan ka updater hoon aur tum mera update bhi nahin padti
thanx 4 welcum anmol!!SmileSmile my laptop was at service center 4 repair so i cudn't visit forums regularly!! but now i"ll b regular & really this show is putting me off esply IMV & his tactics.
 
as i never found them 2 b learnt 2 bcum a successful businessman/woman!!! hes representing the D-grade business tactics!!DeadDead
 
@koolsandhu i know ur viewpoint is v. difft from mine but reading sum of ur points i thought that u really don't find middle class ppl & values r gud enough!! sorry 4 misunderstanding!!
 
and i  never saw any1 as white or black  only but here neither of IMV's actions justify him being anti-hero!!anti-hero's defn shud b the hero like in our old 70s & 80s movies where he got injustices from all quarters of society & esply from villain & then he try 2 avenge it but never hurt innocent ppl & atleast he never left his moral values!!
 
 
good to know u will be regular , always look forward to ur postsLOL
dolly the latest tactic of putting d in jail, that was very bad even i was pissed with him
i can somewhat understand his anger on manhar but d , no. what did she do to deserve all this
the irony is d trusts him too much , what will happen to her when she comes to know that imv is behind all thisOuch
but show is going gr8Smile, imv is very good as villian and the fights between imv and d r really good
also there seems to be a gr8 understanding going between v and dSmile


Edited by intruderfast - 29 May 2011 at 8:44am

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tiny15

koolsadhu1000 IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 29 May 2011 at 9:14am | IP Logged
but dera it seems like this only!! whoever read it'll think it as justification as even my sis & mom who also watch it they also never find IMV as anti-hero as koolsandhu'd wrote & not even oder ppl who r watching it!!
.
My dear I give up . Anti Hero is a genre ...a specific SLOT created in literature !  Harkisan Mehta is a literateur ...His main protagonist .IMV ...is NOT a hero , but an aging Anti hero . Its not what koolsadhu thinks ...its a FACT ! These genres r already made by novelists much before I was BORN !Big smile  Also , the script writers do NOT intend to make IMV likable at all !
 
How do u know whether other people are empathising with him or not ? I can see in this thread itself quite a bunch who DO understand his POV and are pretty irritated with the self righteous moralists ! So definetely there may be a considerable amount outside too who can do the same ...people who know exactly how the corporate world operates ...how ruthlessly and how swiftly !  They will NEVER accept the lalala music and the fact that an established group was sidelined for a an almost bankrupt novice ! However good her speech maybe , Devki will NEVER land a contract like this simply for a speech  !
 
Corruption is everwhere but the corporate world  stands firmly on it in India ! Its an inevitable part of that world ! What getting rich thru good means are u talking about ...Where does that happen in the business world ? At a certain point , when u become THIS big , ur forced to turn ur face the other way inspite of seeing many unethical things ! If u don't grab the opprtunity , the other business shark will ! And tremendous money is involved ...millions an billions , not thousands or lakhs even ! U think businessmen sit back and act 'good' and allow others to grab that kind of money ?
 
Dhirubhai Ambani on whom this serial was based was pulled up for unethical business practices but today Reliance makes India proud in the international scene !  Dhirubhai's war with Ramnath Goenka ...founder of Indian Express group is legendary ! The charges were dropped as nothing cud be proved but that did not disprove that he perhaps did use unethical means for promoting Reliance ! 
 
Why is the corporate world doing this tolerated ? Coz They generate jobs ...thousands of them , they give rise to employment !
 
A person can become rich by becoming a great neurosurgeon for example  ...he doesn't have to resort to cutthroat competition there . His skill brings in the money .
 
But  its NOT that simple if he is a businessman ! In business , if u want urs to flourish , u MUST make it better than ur competitor's !  And when billions of dollars or rupees r involved , all the competitors start stepping on each other ! 
 
This Devki won't last for ONE day in real life with all that innocence !  Neither will Motilal Master's Adarshes ! He shud do what he does best ...employ it in teaching profession ! Not in a ruthless profession in which survival is the only instinct !
 
Phew ! Don't mind , but these r my views , I don't believe in imaginary idealism . If one puts on the TV , one sees the SCAMS going on and how politicians and the corporate world operate .

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