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A doubt regarding Deeyarvattu

alanta IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 4:54am | IP Logged
Is deeyarvattu considered as a real marriage or a custom conducted before the real marriage?
coz I think in hindu marriages saath pheras, mangalsuthra,sindoor etc are considered as the important rituls where as in deyarvattu all these are seemed to be  replaced by a pair of moujris. Is that possible? How the importance of saath pheras in which they make certain oaths are compensated here? I dont know anything about this but wanted to know , plz help.Embarrassed

Lennie IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 5:53am | IP Logged
Deeyavatu is i say a ritual performed (obviously in some villages this happens and is legal i guess in a way), and that means a widow has become a suhagan again
 
If you watch back on Gulaal and Poonambha's scene from a week ago or so, its what Poonambha says, in front ot the world she was declared a married woman again... however much Gulaal tries to falsify it, seeing as she keeps saying it was a compromise on her part, she is a married woman - thats her identity even though from her pov she still feels like she is Vasant's widow to some extent


Edited by Lennie - 21 May 2011 at 5:56am

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wida

-Srushti- IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged
In fact Paan ba and Mota bha's marriage was also a part of the Deeyar vatu ritual...
It is prevelant in parts of Gujarat and Rajasthan and even North India ..as we know that this story is inspired by a Urdu-Punjabi writer's novel whose hindi's tilte is 'Ek Chadar maili si'
It was basically started so that the young widow will not be banished from teh society and if there are children borne out of the earlier wedding, they stay in the family and do not suffer without proper family breeding ...
Also it took materialistic view as the family property disputes and children were all linked due to this ...
But basically it was done to save the women of the family from falling prey to bad men and rigid rituals...
and yes it is a proper customs,...and in Gujarat..there are only 4 pheras...but Deeyarvatu ritual is performed in this way as was shown in most villages...and the ritual has been performed between Gulaal and KesarEmbarrassed


Edited by -Srushti- - 21 May 2011 at 7:38am

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doofenshmirtz00Avatarana09

alanta IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 8:34am | IP Logged
So was this the actual everlasting marriage which has been pointed out by panditji?
Incense IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 8:53am | IP Logged
well as far as i know widow remarriage with devar happens by different customs...like chadar andezi ( a custom where both groom and bride have to sit together and a cloth is spread over them inside it groom gives the chunar to bride tht means they are married...in some part of punjab there is custom in which groom gives a scoop of rice (mutthi bhar chawal ) to bride as token of their union...in gujaarat the tradition is carried wen bride gives one of husband belonging  to the groom it may be pagdi shoes any personal belonging...afterwards there is proper marriage but since here kesar was child so i think they skip that part ...it would be inappropriate for viewing...neverthless i want to see a proper marriage happening afterwards

Edited by arti07 - 21 May 2011 at 9:58am

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ansuya12 Senior Member
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 9:12am | IP Logged
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Edited by trifolia - 21 May 2011 at 9:46am
ansuya12 Senior Member
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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 9:42am | IP Logged
Originally posted by alanta

Is deeyarvattu considered as a real marriage or a custom conducted before the real marriage?
coz I think in hindu marriages saath pheras, mangalsuthra,sindoor etc are considered as the important rituls where as in deyarvattu all these are seemed to be  replaced by a pair of moujris. Is that possible? How the importance of saath pheras in which they make certain oaths are compensated here? I dont know anything about this but wanted to know , plz help.Embarrassed


Deeyarvattu is spelt and pronounced differently in parts of Rajasthan and Gujarath.  I have heard Deyarbattu, Deyarattu etc...In cultural Anthropology, you will find that it is a practice common to many traditional communities in the world.  the practice is referred to as "Levirate" .  In India in most communities Levirate is marriage to the unmarried younger brother.  You can find descriptions of these customs and rituals in Anthropology books about tribes in India.  The major purpose of the ritual was to provide future security to a widow and her children in family where she was not connected by any other kinship ties such as lineage or blood. 

Keep in mind while mainstream Hindus India practice some Rig Vedic Hindu rituals, these have been modified by several communities.  The walk around the fire is considered a sacrament and can be supposedly done only once because it represents the pure union of souls across several life times.  However depending on which tribe/community you are looking at there can be different rules of divorce, separation, elopment and remarriage.  Marriage was a relationship defined by friendship between two people - the rigvedic vows around the fire are not eternal declarations of passionate love but are vows of pure, respectful friendship - passionate love and youthful love are bonuses when they come with those vows. 

Remarriage has always had very simple ceremonies attached to it.  I have seen divorce and remarriage in rural communities in India and they are very simple rituals enacted in front of the village elders (panchayat) and the entire village.  Remarriage, divorce and eloping are not taken lightly - remarriage and divorces are decisions made by the elders when the situation at hand asks for it.  When Motaba says that as the family mukhiya and the village sarpanch he wants to break the Deeyarvattu, he was actually within his full rights as a family and village elder ...

The position of women is very bad in some communities, but in many rural agricultural communities women are also respected and considered a valuable resource that can work in the fields or homestead.  Many of these communities pay a bride price not a dowry.

Traditionally an Indian marriage has  nurtured deep  pragmatic ties between two families - something that Kings and Traders used to their advantage when forming political and trade alliances.  Family ties were more important than passion and 'true love' when keeping a community together - hence the emphasis on "arranged marriages" decided by family elders.  The curious juxtaposition of the postcolonial concepts of love and traditional definitions of marriage in India give us these very interesting serials on Indian TV (granted that they maybe of varying quality and wildly differing imaginary concepts - e.g., I am very perplexed by Dehraduni vampire serial where everyone seems to be biting everyone else Shocked)

India is an extremely heterogenous country and one single ritual does not fit everybody.  There are some communities in India that still practice polygamy and/or polyandry.  Keep in mind that even the Mahabharata you have the pandavas living in a poly-amorous situation...



Edited by trifolia - 21 May 2011 at 9:53am

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doofenshmirtz00Avatarana09ShellJAIncense

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Posted: 21 May 2011 at 12:17pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by trifolia

Originally posted by alanta

Is deeyarvattu considered as a real marriage or a custom conducted before the real marriage?
coz I think in hindu marriages saath pheras, mangalsuthra,sindoor etc are considered as the important rituls where as in deyarvattu all these are seemed to be  replaced by a pair of moujris. Is that possible? How the importance of saath pheras in which they make certain oaths are compensated here? I dont know anything about this but wanted to know , plz help.Embarrassed


Deeyarvattu is spelt and pronounced differently in parts of Rajasthan and Gujarath.  I have heard Deyarbattu, Deyarattu etc...In cultural Anthropology, you will find that it is a practice common to many traditional communities in the world.  the practice is referred to as "Levirate" .  In India in most communities Levirate is marriage to the unmarried younger brother.  You can find descriptions of these customs and rituals in Anthropology books about tribes in India.  The major purpose of the ritual was to provide future security to a widow and her children in family where she was not connected by any other kinship ties such as lineage or blood. 

Keep in mind while mainstream Hindus India practice some Rig Vedic Hindu rituals, these have been modified by several communities.  The walk around the fire is considered a sacrament and can be supposedly done only once because it represents the pure union of souls across several life times.  However depending on which tribe/community you are looking at there can be different rules of divorce, separation, elopment and remarriage.  Marriage was a relationship defined by friendship between two people - the rigvedic vows around the fire are not eternal declarations of passionate love but are vows of pure, respectful friendship - passionate love and youthful love are bonuses when they come with those vows. 

Remarriage has always had very simple ceremonies attached to it.  I have seen divorce and remarriage in rural communities in India and they are very simple rituals enacted in front of the village elders (panchayat) and the entire village.  Remarriage, divorce and eloping are not taken lightly - remarriage and divorces are decisions made by the elders when the situation at hand asks for it.  When Motaba says that as the family mukhiya and the village sarpanch he wants to break the Deeyarvattu, he was actually within his full rights as a family and village elder ...

The position of women is very bad in some communities, but in many rural agricultural communities women are also respected and considered a valuable resource that can work in the fields or homestead.  Many of these communities pay a bride price not a dowry.

Traditionally an Indian marriage has  nurtured deep  pragmatic ties between two families - something that Kings and Traders used to their advantage when forming political and trade alliances.  Family ties were more important than passion and 'true love' when keeping a community together - hence the emphasis on "arranged marriages" decided by family elders.  The curious juxtaposition of the postcolonial concepts of love and traditional definitions of marriage in India give us these very interesting serials on Indian TV (granted that they maybe of varying quality and wildly differing imaginary concepts - e.g., I am very perplexed by Dehraduni vampire serial where everyone seems to be biting everyone else Shocked)

India is an extremely heterogenous country and one single ritual does not fit everybody.  There are some communities in India that still practice polygamy and/or polyandry.  Keep in mind that even the Mahabharata you have the pandavas living in a poly-amorous situation...

Thanks Trifolia. That was a very detailed piece of information.
Let me add to the ritual practiced in Kerala which was still following the matriarchal system till some time ago. A century ago, or till the late 1930s and 1940's, marriage used to be a simple ceremony where men chose to give a piece of the traditional white cloth worn by Keralite women. The woman of the house had the power of decisions. . If the woman accepts it in front of her family, she is declared to be married to that man.
And whenever a situation arises where they had to part ways, the cloth/fabric given by him will be returned to him. If she wanted to remarry, the same ritual is followed. The ceremony used to be conducted in front of a lighted lamp. And that was it about being married by a ritual.
With cross cultural blend among the other southern states, the rituals have been modified of late.

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