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Socialism vs Communism! (Page 3)

Silentsoul IF-Sizzlerz
Silentsoul
Silentsoul

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Posted: 17 May 2011 at 9:51am | IP Logged

Socialism and communism both based on principle that the economy should be owned publicly, and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. Socialism as proposed by Marx was new and different reformed economic system directly from capitalism to end the role of capitalist class to bring new economic reform to form a new classless society. Socialism was principle that displaced capitalism and communism emerged from it. Communism was developed from socialism was merge of Lenin and Marx principles, and was higher stage of socialism with political system included in centralized control along with economic system. Socialism was based on economically classeless society whereas communism stresses on both economically classlessness and politically statelessness society.

Socialism basic principle is from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution Whereas Communism From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs Communism was far more conservative version of socialism which reflect more control of state on political and economic system. All three socialism, communism, and pure capitalism have their negatives and positives. Comparing all, I support more capitalism and support public ownership but on limited scale in some sector. Private ownership brings more prosperity and growth than too communism examples are South and North Korea.

-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
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Joined: 02 November 2010
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Posted: 17 May 2011 at 12:25pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Is this your thesis Paper then?
http://wikiality.wikia.com/The_People%27s_Republic_of_Madison

<I am secret writer for Wikipedia <lol!> my subject was the tea party of Madison!>

PS: Whoever thought of Sodom on the Lake. I love the name.

To address your points/questions

1. Yes, socialism is more close to communism. It is left of center.

2. Socialism actually is not against private ownership. Private enterprise can still exist under socialism. Capitalism tends to discredit labor and communism tends to discredit capital. Socialism tries to balance the two. There is more emphasis on collective enterprise like cooperative farming, employee owned businesses. However, socialism does tend to lean unfairly in favor of labor. I personally prefer socialism that is more towards the center than far left of center.

3. As a teenager I was very conservative and staunchly capitalistic. As I grew up I discovered several serious flaws and unfair practices in capitalism. I feel ethically and morally better about my own consciousness being more liberal (socially and fiscally). Thats not to say other world views don't have their merit.

<This is where you and me meet...club liberal...a mind that is able to imagine itself believing anything is possible! :)>

4. China's problem is authoritarian government, people have no say. India's problem is corruption. USA's problem is corporations lacking governance (USA is mostly capitalistic with some social welfare programs). European nations like France, Germany, the Nordic nations and Canada are examples of functional socialism balanced with market economies.

<I leave this to a open discussion, cause you have hit the points on which I opened this thread!>


-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
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Joined: 02 November 2010
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Posted: 17 May 2011 at 4:00pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by kuls11

Socialism and communism both based on principle that the economy should be owned publicly, and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. Socialism as proposed by Marx was new and different reformed economic system directly from capitalism to end the role of capitalist class to bring new economic reform to form a new classless society. Socialism was principle that displaced capitalism and communism emerged from it. Communism was developed from socialism was merge of Lenin and Marx principles, and was higher stage of socialism with political system included in centralized control along with economic system. Socialism was based on economically classeless society whereas communism stresses on both economically classlessness and politically statelessness society.

Socialism basic principle is from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution Whereas Communism From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs Communism was far more conservative version of socialism which reflect more control of state on political and economic system. All three socialism, communism, and pure capitalism have their negatives and positives. Comparing all, I support more capitalism and support public ownership but on limited scale in some sector. Private ownership brings more prosperity and growth than too communism examples are South and North Korea.



Finally, someone decided to join me.:)
Did I get you right that you are on fence between capitalism and socialism?  But my liberal heart just does not fit anywhere cause both the socialist and communist rejected me on separating the public and private spheres and between political and civil society. I am now stuck with my individuality which supports both social and economic issues of  unemployment, health care, and education and civil rights!


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Silentsoul

Silentsoul IF-Sizzlerz
Silentsoul
Silentsoul

Joined: 29 March 2005
Posts: 15860

Posted: 18 May 2011 at 8:36am | IP Logged
Originally posted by night13

Originally posted by kuls11

Socialism and communism both based on principle that the economy should be owned publicly, and controlled and planned by a centralized organization. Socialism as proposed by Marx was new and different reformed economic system directly from capitalism to end the role of capitalist class to bring new economic reform to form a new classless society. Socialism was principle that displaced capitalism and communism emerged from it. Communism was developed from socialism was merge of Lenin and Marx principles, and was higher stage of socialism with political system included in centralized control along with economic system. Socialism was based on economically classeless society whereas communism stresses on both economically classlessness and politically statelessness society.

Socialism basic principle is from each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution Whereas Communism From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs Communism was far more conservative version of socialism which reflect more control of state on political and economic system. All three socialism, communism, and pure capitalism have their negatives and positives. Comparing all, I support more capitalism and support public ownership but on limited scale in some sector. Private ownership brings more prosperity and growth than too communism examples are South and North Korea.



Finally, someone decided to join me.:)
Did I get you right that you are on fence between capitalism and socialism?  But my liberal heart just does not fit anywhere cause both the socialist and communist rejected me on separating the public and private spheres and between political and civil society. I am now stuck with my individuality which supports both social and economic issues of  unemployment, health care, and education and civil rights!



I was hardcore pro- socialist during my grown up days. I like Marx theories
till now but overall socialism dissuade the growth of individual,
society and nation. For me his socialism or Lenin communism was more
outcome of imperialism than capitalism. Until capitalism reaches that extreme level I am pro-capitalism. Any day consumerism brings prosperity over monopoly.  

But overall little government ownership in basic amenities like school, hospitals is needed especially in developing countries. Otherwise prosperity is restricted to urban level and rural level being untouched with it. But huge corruptions in these non profitable public sectors at every level just allow few drops of relief to reach them. SO if they are really beneficial without proper check, I have some serious doubts.

On independence India was more incline to state ownership of major infrastructure and it was in economic crisis and on  verge of bankruptcy. They cribbed license raj and brought liberalization of economy 1991. India's fiscal deficit of the GDP is reduced to half from that time. From one billion we have reached more 200 billion in foreign reserve.Corruption was prevalent in India, was there during socialism. Political Corruption is outcome of corporate money so part of both socialist as well as capitalist system. But corruption in monopoly is more toxic that than in capitalist market. But with free market, we initiate more prosperity and with few pros few cons follow too.




Edited by kuls11 - 18 May 2011 at 8:58am
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
return_to_hades
return_to_hades

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Posts: 24756

Posted: 18 May 2011 at 11:56am | IP Logged
^^

You both are almost absolutely opposite to me. I grew up very capitalistic but changed my mind after seeing negative effects of capitalism.

@ night13 - you are right India is a "socialist" country.

India is a sovereign socialist secular democratic republic. (http://indiacode.nic.in/coiweb/coifiles/preamble.htm)

There was a time when India had too many trade barriers and economic regulations that prevented capitalistic growth. However, now India actually has a very free trade economy conducive to good corporate growth. Over the past decade economic growth in India has been accelerated and people can enjoy many benefits of capital growth.

At the same time the public sector is also strong. Government is involved in many vital infrastructure activities like transport, energy, communications, education etc so that even rural and lower class India get economic opportunities to grow.

On paper, the structure of India is a good ideal balance. Our problem is corruption and greed. The government is steeped in bureaucracy, inefficiency and corruption - so people don't see the benefits of the public sector. Consequently the private sector engages in tax evasion, money laundering and illegal activities because they feel entitled as fair play would mean the public sector wasting money.

EU and Nordic models have worked so far much better because they have somehow overcome the cycle of corruption and greed.

.

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Silentsoul

CunningLinguist IF-Sizzlerz

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Posted: 18 May 2011 at 12:48pm | IP Logged
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blue-ice.

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 18 May 2011 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
Seems that whichever model is used they fail terribly where corruption is rampant. A strong Govt us needed to clean up things and keep law n order, price is sacrifice of personal freedom.
Singapore is a Parliamentary Republic with a very strong One Party control. She grossly overpays the Ministers under the excuse that it is not easy to draw good people to join. What is forgotten is that this also dissuades the bad ones from leaving. But it checks corruption.
So far model is working n country safe. But it is hard for the poor to survive due to rising costs especially property prices n basics.
They should give free medical and education to the citizens. So called subsidized rates are still expensive for some. Hope this can be improved further.

But Singapore is most safe and efficient. It is a no nonsense place and basically commercially orientated. Has been labelled a Policeman country.
System works well but with change of times some of the methods too have to change. Still overall it is a good model but still there are several areas that need improvement.

Recently there has been some opposition parties gaining some parliamentary seats and the trend will continue.

-Aarya- IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 20 May 2011 at 6:54am | IP Logged
Being an idealist, am I expecting too much good from people...I still believe in human kind to do the right thing. :)

There is nothing wrong with wanting a democratic society, where eco/political decisions reflect the common good. Why shouldn't we complete what the worlds largest democracy began,basically all democracies utilizes socialism, where money is redistributed via taxes to pay for medical, security, police, defense, federal, state, locals, and any other government entity!All stuff the private sector can not do with out the government intervention. For which if there is no redistribution then you have no government whatsoever!

I totally agree with capitalism will be around forever, but hope for socialism will always live.




Edited by night13 - 20 May 2011 at 7:04am

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Silentsoul

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