Words we Say...and What we Don't (P.6) - Page 2

Posted: 12 years ago
I dunno why it seems to me that, Neelu could be Guddu's sister, that's why he is still so possesive about her. On top of it , Guddu was literary turn down in the Suhaag raat by the mentioning of her name.. Otherwise no one is possesive about one's ex into this extent. May be its my fault of thinking that i am portraying Guddu in such a way where he doesnt have any previous relationships. As i cannot forget the scene of his shopping for Runjhun where we have witnessed how inexperienced he is regarding ladies shopping.
Posted: 12 years ago
thxs Wafah! 
I understand the dialogues better now.  
I have to commend both the actors for they did absolute justice to their respective characters today in their portrayal of the scenes.  Both of them were on top of their craft.  They were so realistic!!  This explosive is a must see for any indian tv serial watcher!!! 
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by Wafah


JP I think it goes along the lines of him thinking that Runjhun is trying to change him to be like Abhi. Like Guddu said he does everything forefront. He always spells out his intentions clearly but he feels cheated by Runjhun. He thinks that on pretext of changing him she was trying to mold him into Abhigyaan. So in a way she was deviously trying to get him to mold him into the person she loved. That to him is like betrayal, and hence he commenting that "Tumhare mann mein paap" which can translate that the intentions in her heart were not good...

Which of course is a different change from when she asks him yesterday, that if she truly can be that vindictive or capable of such deception when Mahadevi suggested it to her...in his mind he can't believe her intentions and he feels hurt to rationalize the emotions for what they are truly...


I feel like he knows how she really is... but then to rationalize his thoughts he'll blame things on her...however HE'S the only one allowed to speak ill of his wife.. anyone else who does it will get beaten up.  I cannot see Guddu putting up with anyone referring to Runjhun with the words he does.

Confusion, your name is Guddu.

Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by rani2007




Wafah, Could you do me a favor and  bold the Hindi lines you noted in your post?  It would make them easier to see/find. Thank you😊

I'm going to post the lines I like below but I wanted to first right that I loved your analysis.  The only line I considered a little differently is the one I quote above.  I don't think Runjhun has a clue that Guddu is jealous.  I think she was saying that he's not burning Abhi's image but rather his image.  Like Guddu's the one who's literally burning by destroying his kinder side.

Now lines I liked.

"Naashe mein ham hain ki naashe mein tum ho... khabadhar agar humre paas aayi toh."
"Am I intoxicated or are you intoxicated?...Don't you dare come near me"

Guddu says this to the Munni wannabe.  Where did this come from?  He's drunk but has enough sense that he doesn't want to be near the dancer.  Later though he wants to be near Runjhun so he goes to hang up his scarf in the closer, yeah OK Guddu. 😆

"Humhe aapki nafrat ho rahin hain...ghin aarahi hai aapse"
"
I feel hatred for you and I feel disgusted by you."

Ok so these words were OK when Guddu was harassing Runjhun... but to say them now... very powerful words to say to someone especially one that has started to care for you and vice versa.

"Humri Jaasosi kar rahin thi tum..."
"
You were spying on me."

I think this comes into play later when Runjhun brings up Neelu and Guddu gets mad when she refers to Neelu as a bar dancer.  I think he's assuming that because she has been spying on him that she knows who Neelu is and he's disgusted that Runjhun called Neelu a bar dancer even though she knows the truth. 

"Apni izzat nahin rak sakti saala kam se kam humri izzat toh rakho na"
"
If you can't keep your respect, damn it, at least try to maintain my reputation."

I thought it was interesting that he linked their reputations together... just as one would link a wifer to her husband and a husband to his wife.

G:"Saala abhi tak tumre dil se nahin utra na woh Master...Master Abhigyaan Dixit...Saala Nahin Bhula Paayi tum usko abhi tak, tumre maan ke jadh ke betha hai saala abhi tak nahin bhula paayi hum jaante hai"...
R:"Phaaltu ki baat mat kijiye... Abhigyanji koh kyu laarahe hai"
G:"Abhigyan JI..."
G:"Saala tumri tumri maan mein bas gaya woh Abhigyan Dixit Baas Gaya hai"

G: "That bas***d (Master) has not made his way out of your heart yet... Master Abhigyaan Dixit...Damn it you couldn't forget him yet, he is rooted and sitting in your consciousness, and damn you have not forgetton him I know..."
R:  "Do not talk about such rubbish things...Why are you bringing up Abhigyaan JI?"
G: "Abhigyaan JI??"
G: "Damn..Abhigyaan Dixit has a home (settled in) in your heart/
consciousness"

This was such a powerful dialogue.  Guddu's voice was so emotional as he said the first line because he hates that Abhi means so much to Runjhun. My thoughts are that Guddu thinks that because Abhi's memories are so settled in Runjhun's heart there is no room for Guddu. Then Runjhun said "Abhigyaan JI."  Ji, being the form of respect.  The way Guddu repeated it was classic... he hated that she called him Abhigyaan JI.  I think Runjhun noticed this to because the next time she says Abhi's name she called hiim Abhigyaan Dixit.  Guddu referred to Abhi as Abhigyaan ji as well when he went to burn the clothes so he really did not like the way she referred to Abhi.

Jeez, that took forever... I have a bunch more but I will post them later.
 
i just showed the episode to my mom and these dialogues also stuck with me...indeed a very power-packed episode...everytime I rewatch it, I notice something else...
 
@ the blue...I didn't consider that...I'm still unsure about her...I don't think she's a sister, but I don't think she's an ex either...I wud imagine she's a friend...is she still alive? has he helped her? so many questions arise about neelu...can't wait for the creatives to answer these q's..
 
@the purple...I noticed that too...I think runjhun said abhigyaan-ji out of habit...and when she noticed the way guddu repeated the name, she corrected herself...but I don't think guddu noticed...he was just so upset at the thought that she is still in love with him...or holds him to be her ideal man...which he certainly isn't..I just wish runjhun would explain to him how abhi is not her ideal man...he hurt her by requesting a medical test and I think he has hurt her more than guddu has...guddu is honest and upfront...even today, with his insecurities, he says everything he is thinking...abhigyaan was there to play hero and left when she needed him the most...
Posted: 12 years ago
Hi Wafah,
You have penned down the thoughts very well and i do agree with the interpretations that u have given. Really WONDERFUL.

I just felt like adding one thought regarding the episode.  This separation which has happened between Gunjun is one way both of them will realize the importance of the other in their lives. Runjun has always been telling that she is doing and trying to make guddu a good human being just for the happiness of amma.  I hope this will make her realize its now changed.  If its only for amma why should runjun keep the sari and flowers so carefully and feel looking at it. So runjun is also started developing feeling towards guddu.  This separation will make them realize their love and somehow they should express their feelings for each other.

But, sometimes i feel the episodes are deliberately prolonged.  If not for that everything in this serial is excellent, making us to crave to watch it.



Posted: 12 years ago
@ Rani

That was stupendous. I love your point about RJ calling  Abi: Abhigyaan JI

Right before that (for the first time, I think) she called Guddu, "Guddu Shukkla Ji" in a mocking way as how could she ever think to change the great Guddu Shukkla?

That was unusual as while Guddu is always sarcastic, RJ is not. So later when she uses the "ji" with Abhi, it was as you said automatic and Guddu picked up on that.

So yes the layers in the scenes were great and seeing the language so helps really capture the nuances!


Edited by jpalagrawal - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by Wafah




"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"


I like this exchange because Runjhun is again trying to push Guddu away in her hurt. She is disgusted by his actions but for most part she is hurt by his actions. I think Guddu's insecurities come out in this statement the first. It's like questioning Runjhun, why she keeps him at a distance always. Guddu has always sensed the distance Runjhun seems to place between him and herself, and in some way it has always bothered him. So subconsciously I think this voices his insecurity based on if she is his wife, why is there still a emotional distance. He doesn't asks if she's disgusted by him? He instead asks if she fears him, and I think either of them bothers him, which is why he tries to get a rise out of Runjhun rather than her be quiet, because he rather have her fight him, then be disappointed or afraid of him, or disgusted of him. Also when Runjhun responds her voice is full of emotion.

"Inhi haatho se, us sharaab khaane mein, us ladki ko chooa. Aur phir unhi haathon se humein choo rahe hain."

"With these hands, at the drinking bar, you touched that girl. Now with those same hands you're touching me."

Here the fact that Guddu touched another female seems to bother Runjhun the most. I think at some level Runjhun is disgusted, but on a different level the fact that Guddu touched another female (I'm not saying he can't touch females), especially considering the fact that Runjhun has just gotten comfortable to Guddu's touches, emotionally hurts her. Runjhun had said when Guddu touched her that because of Guddu she wouldn't be able to let any man touch her because he'd created an emotional scar on her with his touch. This in parallel to Guddu telling her later that if anyone else but Abhi touches it becomes impure. Of course he's referring to himself but to me it matters to both of them...whether it is a touch of respect, a touch of understanding or a touch of trust...those touches matter





Great post!
I'm going to zero in on the distance and touching part.
Guddu really is putting his selective memory to work when he asks Runjhun,

"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"

     Can he really not think of a single reason Runjhun does not want to be close to him (besides the whole touching the dancer thing that she says later)?!?

     Its both understandable and obvious (to us viewers) that Runjhun still has not forgotten their touches in the past, pre-marriage, however Guddu seems to ignore this part of their history, and this is clearly affecting the rightful evolution of their relationship.

     Another related point, is the fact that Runjhun once again repeated that she is disgusted by him (ghin=???). Now imagine, if somebody like a stranger said that they were disgusted by you, most of us would probably be shocked and suffer at least a tiny bit of self-doubt. Now imagine, if it were by somebody you knew, like say a friend, teacher, or neighbour, you would probably be a lot more effected and very introspective and hurt by this statement. Now, Guddu and Runjhun's relationship is much closer than that, imagine how it would feel when somebody you're supposed to spend your entire life with (and seven junums (spelling???) with) says something like that to you. That they are disgusted by you and can't bear to have you touch them or even near them, imagine at best the frustration and at worst the hurt and the anger and the self-doubt (now compounded by how Guddu remembers Abhigyan and Runjhun's interactions, and how his touch didn't disgust her) that Guddu must now feel.

     When it comes to nearness and touches, Guddu and Runjhun now have to solve two inter-related issues when it comes to closeness between them:

1) The first issue, is their past history of how they interacted with each other pre-marriage, and they must heal Runjhun's fear from being locked in a room together, Runjhun has still not forgotten how this made her feel and the consequences of it.

2) The second issue, is that part of Runjhun's hurt from the locked room incident comes from the fact that she feels that he is "impure" and she still feels this way tbh. Basically she has to stop feeling disgusted by him. She still feels that he is a gunda, and thus, a bad person, morally and ethically, Guddu must find a way to convey to her that while yes, he is rough around the edges, he is not a bad person, after all she still finds a way to accept her dear relatives even for all of the evil they've done. We can see a quick peak into this revelation of Guddu not being that bad of a person, from the incident with the kid and the accident, how heroic and righteous he seemed to Runjhun after that and how she defended him because of it.
 
Okay, yeah, I'm just going to stop now, please forgive my run-on sentences😆.

Edit: formatting

Edited by Pleiades - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by Pleiades




Great post!
I'm going to zero in on the distance and touching part.
Guddu really is putting his selective memory to work when he asks Runjhun,

"Kahe hatey hum. Arre tum humri dharampatni ho na? Hum kaahe hate bhaiyya? Kya hua? Dar lag raha hai humse?"

"Why shall I move? You're my wife, right? then why should I move? What happened? Are you scared of me?"

     Can he really not think of a single reason Runjhun does not want to be close to him (besides the whole touching the dancer thing that she says later)?!?

     Its both understandable and obvious (to us viewers) that Runjhun still has not forgotten their touches in the past, pre-marriage, however Guddu seems to ignore this part of their history, and this is clearly affecting the rightful evolution of their relationship.

     Another related point, is the fact that Runjhun once again repeated that she is disgusted by him (ghin=???). Now imagine, if somebody like a stranger said that they were disgusted by you, most of us would probably be shocked and suffer at least a tiny bit of self-doubt. Now imagine, if it were by somebody you knew, like say a friend, teacher, or neighbour, you would probably be a lot more effected and very introspective and hurt by this statement. Now, Guddu and Runjhun's relationship is much closer than that, imagine how it would feel when somebody you're supposed to spend your entire life with (and seven junums (spelling???) with) says something like that to you. That they are disgusted by you and can't bear to have you touch them or even near them, imagine at best the frustration and at worst the hurt and the anger and the self-doubt (now compounded by how Guddu remembers Abhigyan and Runjhun's interactions, and how his touch didn't disgust her) that Guddu must now feel.

     When it comes to nearness and touches, Guddu and Runjhun now have to solve two inter-related issues when it comes to closeness between them:

1) The first issue, is their past history of how they interacted with each other pre-marriage, and they must heal Runjhun's fear from being locked in a room together, Runjhun has still not forgotten how this made her feel and the consequences of it.

2) The second issue, is that part of Runjhun's hurt from the locked room incident comes from the fact that she feels that he is "impure" and she still feels this way tbh. Basically she has to stop feeling disgusted by him. She still feels that he is a gunda, and thus, a bad person, morally and ethically, Guddu must find a way to convey to her that while yes, he is rough around the edges, he is not a bad person, after all she still finds a way to accept her dear relatives even for all of the evil they've done. We can see a quick peak into this revelation of Guddu not being that bad of a person, from the incident with the kid and the accident, how heroic and righteous he seemed to Runjhun after that and how she defended him because of it.
 
Okay, yeah, I'm just going to stop now, please forgive my run-on sentences😆.

Edit: formatting



Awesome Pleiades, welcome to the forum. Please keep posting. I am a newcomer myself.

It is interesting while RJ uses the word hate, Guddu does not repeat that. He picks up on the second word, which is actually a little less offensive "disgust with again the inflection being on the touch." After he marries her, he tells Amma that their relationship will be one of hate. But  he does
not repeat that today
Posted: 12 years ago
This is another great post Wafah, i am back on the forum after a long time but not for along time...finals has kept me busy..but love dto read this and every thing is so well analyzed...
Posted: 12 years ago
Great post Wafah...
 
It is nice to read your translation...Zee translation does not do justice to the dialogue especially reading this post... 
 
Please keep posting...it is a great help for us not Hindi-speakers...
 
Ps...Rani..great additional on Wafah post...
Edited by LoveGuddu - 12 years ago

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