Mahabharat & Bhagvat Portrayal of Krishna

Hello friends..
, I wished to ask you something about RS Krishna. Do you think that Krishna was portrayed in a proper manner in this show?

Firstly, the Krishna in this series never behaved as Krishna. Krishna was modest and humble with His elders, cool and casual with His friends and siblings and often cracked jokes and quips and at the same time, He was an astute politician. Krishna was defined by His smartness and subtlety. But the Krishna of the series behaved more like Vishnu than Krishna. This Krishna hardly bowed before his elders or spoke to them modestly. Infact, His elders like Gurus, Kings etc. actually bowed to him and he gave them blessings. In one place it was shown that His Kulguru, Rishi Garg was seeking his blessings. I always found a streak of arrogance in his dialogues and he was always busy self-praising and declaring his supremacy in every other scene to almost every other person. Will a shrewd and diplomatic politician like Krishna ever do that?

Secondly, on multiple occasions, you'll find the Kings and the commoners alike, shouting slogans like "Bhagwan Shri Krishna ki Jai". How did the multitude know that He was Bhagwan? Was it in public knowledge that He was God incarnate? In those days people having supernatural powers were neither unheard of nor unusual. So how can these people call Him Bhagwan so matter of factly? I don't think Krishna actually revealed His divine Self, but on two occasions - first in Hastinapur after Duryodhan attempted to arrest Him (even then only 3 people saw Him - others called Him Mayavi) and Second on the Kurukshetra (where only Arjun, Hanumaan, Barbareek and Sanjay saw Him). Few people like Bhishma, Drona, Vidura and Satyaki guessed that this man might be Divine. Some say that Bhishma knew it from Ganga or Parashuram but was told to seal his lips. Otherwise I don't see anyway of the whole world knowing about this unless Krishna Himself divulged it.

On the whole, I feel, they paid too much attention on Krishna's Godliness and ignored his Human qualities almost completely. As I said, I found no difference between Vishnu and Krishna in this series.
Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago

Rehan - There is indeed a difference in characterization, but it's due to a difference in sources and their purpose. I can speak for it upto the Sudama track cuz that's as far as I ever watch. Krishna is portrayed differently in different sources, depending on whether they are karm pradhaan or bhakti pradhaan. In the Mahabharat, he certainly is that astute politician whose divinity wasn't known to all, as you described. In the Bhaagvat (SK's primary source) as well as tons of other Vaishnav literature, he is deified and almost universally recognized as God, just as it is depicted in the show. Not totally improbable because even if supernatural powers were common in those days, the fulfillment of a public aakashwani might've tipped people off. And if they know, than his Vishnu-esque behavior isn't arrogant, it's expected. Shri Ram also gets deified in Adhyatma Ramayan, unlike most other sources. I don't think I'm qualified to make an absolute judgment on which portrayal is right or wrong, but as far as my beliefs both can be since these avatars are said to have occurred multiple times and may have had these slight variations in different cycles. And as far as my preferences go, as long as the text and/or show based on it are reasonably consistent in the portrayal they choose, and more importantly as long as that portrayal doesn't make a positive character look like a villain, it's cool with me.Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago

Hi Rehan,Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago

@Lola and Lalitha.
Since I have not read Bhagwad Puran or Harivamsa, my knowledge is limited to Mahabharat. But I think that to convince people he need not have exposed his divinity. Krishna was a highly skilled orator and had deep political understanding. He could scheme grand strategies, foil the plan of his enemies, and make a route for his friends and followers by hook or by crook. People revered him, sought him for advice but did not hail/worship him as God in Mahabharat atleast. In Mahabharat, only Bhishma knows of his divinity and that is why he asks Yudhishtir to pay homage to Krishna in Rajsuya Yagya. But here almost everybody, including Kunti, Vidur, Pandavas, and even the common citizens of Mathura and Dwarka know that he's Paramatma!!
 
One more thing - if everybody knew that he was God then do you think he would have had enemies or opponents? Everyone would have agreed to his words without arguing. People like Duryodhan, Karna, Shakuni, Jarasandh might have been Adharmis, but they all prayed to God dutifully. Karna prayed to Narayan everyday after Surya Snaan. Duryodhan too offered prayers to Vishnu and even performed Vaishnava Yagya after Karna's world conquest. Do you thing they would have attempted to capture Krishna or even disagree to his proposal if they knew he was Vishnu?

I sensed arrogance in his words because it is clearly written in Mahabharat that Krishna was extremely modest while addressing his superiors. You see the Krishna's peace proposal of BRC MB and see the peace proposal of SK. In MB, Krishna humbly folds his hands, bows before Bhishma, Drona and Vidura, does Pranam to everybody present in the Sabha, beseeches the king and politely requests him to return the Pandava kingdom. That was a sign of a true Diplomat and an Ambassador. However in SK, Krishna sits like an emperor before Dhritarashtra, instead of doing Pranam, he gives blessings to others and he doesn't request - he makes statements and declares his proposal. There's absolutely no humility in his voice.
Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 12 years ago

In Bhagwad Gita, Krishna himself says that He's the supreme creator, he creates Karma chakra, and nothing is impossible for him - everything can happen just if he wishes and he doesn't even need to wink an eye. But still he binds himself in that Karma chakra and takes birth as a human, behaves like an ordinary human and does Karma so that others can emulate his example. If he displays his Godliness openly then how will people learn anything from Him? We can never learn anything from God because God is omnipotent and perfect in all aspect. Man can learn from God only if God brings Himself down to a common man's level. That is why I think portraying Avatars as equal to Vishnu is not quite appropriate - it kills the essence of Karma and the purpose of the concept of Avatar.


Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 12 years ago

^^ What you're saying makes sense yaar, but again it's a subjective preference thing, to each their own. Some want to see these avtaars as examples they can relate to and follow, some want to see them as omnipotent and all-powerful so that their faith is strengthened and their devotion rekindled. Jaaki rahi bhaavna jaisi, prabhu murati tin dekhi taisi. Or in other terms, some want to take the path of karm and some wish to engage in bhakti, a different image of Krishna is suitable for each (at least in early stages). I myself am a windmill in this matter, some days I dwell on a humanized Ram/Krishna, imagining that they actually feel pain and stuff so I can learn from their example, and some days I need that deified image of somebody who is aware every person's every move, always in control, and has a 0% failure rate - that can assure me that all is ultimately well in the world, regardless of how chaotic it seems at the moment.

Vidur did know of Krishna's divinity as per both texts, but that aside, your point about the irrationality of keeping enmity with him after knowing who he really is real solid. If only those who kept the enmity were rational, they would also realize it. But they weren't, that's why even after the ultimate confirmation of divinity that he himself provides - the Vishwaroop darshan he gives at the end of that peace mission you mentioned - still doesn't change Duryodhan and Shakuni's mind. Ravan is said to have known of Ram's divinity through not one but multiple warnings/prophecies, but they all went to vain because... well I don't know why! How scary would it be if I knew how a villain's mind works 😳😆

So yes your points make sense, but so might the alternative depending on one's approach to mythology/spirituality/devotion... many paths lead to the same end. That being said, such direct comparisons cannot be made in this thread so kindly move the description of BRC's peace mission scene and the Gita vids to the BRC Palace thread (unless you'd like to open an epi-by-epi journal thread for it as this one is intended to be, then you can put it there)... you can feel free to leave the commentary on SK's version here, and we will join you in discussing the other one in a BRC thread. See you there!

Ok  I have edited the videos. I posted them only to show an extract from Gita where Krishna declares his Modus operandi. Plus Nitish Bharadwaj's interview where he speaks about Krishna.

But at least in Mahabharat, nobody other than Bhishma 'knew' that Krishna is divine. Vidura and Drona only guess it, till the Vishwaroop display where they themselves witness His cosmic form while others are blinded by His light.

I dunno about Bhagwad Puran, but in Mahabharata, Pandavas never knew who Krishna was, as Arjun was curious to know his identity in the war. Some argue that Draupadi knew about Krishna's reality and that is why she prayed to Him during vastraharan. But in the original Mahabharata, Draupadi never prays to anyone. Its written that she surrenders herself to Dharma and Dharma saves her honour. There is no mention of Krishna. Krishna creating Sari from behind is a later addition. Krishna's behaviour in Mahabharat (text) is completely different from his behaviour in this series.

Over all I guess that in the Vaishnava Bhakti centric texts, they tried to portray Him openly as God without human limitations. While in Mahabharat, which is largely a Karma Centric text, He has been portrayed on a line between Divinity and Humanity and I find this to be more in line with the purpose of Avatar that Shri Krishna Himself expounded in Gita.

Yeah you are right. Perhaps it depends from person to person.😃

But Ram Avatar was in no way perfect. It was very much Human. Ram cried, Ram got angry, got emotional, he was defeated and fainted in battles, he was captured and he displayed limited knowledge and sought others help etc. And I think RS Ramayan portrayed all this very beautifully and without any hesitation.

In case of Krishna, RS tried to show Him more as Vishnu than Krishna. May be because they followed Bhagwad Puran instead of Mahabharat. Its true that Krishna displayed more Godly character than Ram, but He never actually declared Himself as God before public in Mahabharat. But the thing is if God gives us a discourse in his Primeval form, we'll obey it - some out of devotion, others out of fear. But no one will actually learn anything from Him. You can learn something only with practical examples and reasoned criticism. Can you question God the way Arjun questioned Krishna in the battlefield? Krishna implored Arjun to be a Karma Yogi and a Karma Yogi is not a follower, he's an explorer. I don't think a devotee can bother to explore or weigh the truthfulness of God's words. He will follow his God without questioning Him. But Arjun never did that. He kept on questioning and countering Krishna's discourses till he was completely satisfied. It was only after that Krishna revealed His divinity before Arjun.

Otherwise I think the concept of Avatar itself is meaningless. Vishnu can just appear in His original Four Armed form, kill the Adharmis in a second and return to Vaikuntha. But he doesn't do that - he takes human form, behaves like an ordinary human so that others can actually 'learn' something from his practical example. So I think that serial makers should minimize the Godly traits if edutairnment is their motive.

But I also think that there is lot to learn from flawed Human beings as well. Being a Harry Potter fan how can you say that there's nothing to learn from such people?😛In fact I think that if we wish to learn, there's lot to learn even from the insects.
Edited by Darklord_Rehan - 12 years ago