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OBL killing-Will US abandon Pakistan? (Page 3)

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
Summer3
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Posted: 08 May 2011 at 9:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Indradhanush

RUmors that ISI chief has fled Pakistan


http://www.timesnow.tv/WORLD/Cornered-ISI-chief-flees-Pak/videoshow/4372656.cms



Thanks interesting.
 
 
 
 
Cornered ISI chief flees Pak?
8 May 2011, 1603 hrs IST, TIMES NEWS NETWORK & AGENCIES
Questions are being raised on the whereabouts of ISI Chief Lt Gen Shuja Pasha. While he has been untraceable since Friday (May 6), media reports are even suggesting that he could be booted out post the intelligence failure on Osama bin Laden.

ISI chief on foreign visit

ISI chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha has embarked on a foreign trip to an undisclosed location against the backdrop of reports that he may step down over the debacle of the Pakistani military's failure to detect Osama bin Laden's presence in the country.

Pasha set off for an undisclosed location on Friday and it is believed that his visit is linked to the fallout of Monday's US raid that resulted in the killing of bin Laden in a compound located a short distance from the Pakistan Military Academy in the garrison city of Abbottabad, sources told PTI.

The influential Dawn newspaper had reported that Pasha had gone to Washington on a "critical mission for putting an end to misgivings about Pakistan in the US" but the sources said the ISI chief had not gone to the US. Some reports said Pasha may have travelled to a friendly country like China or Saudi Arabia but this could not immediately be confirmed.

An official statement issued on Thursday after a meeting of Corps Commanders chaired by army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani said the military admitted its "own shortcomings in developing intelligence on the presence of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan".

It added that "an investigation has been ordered into the circumstances that led to this situation". The Daily Beast, a website affiliated to Newsweek magazine, reported yesterday that the ISI chief "may step down, as the government looks for a fall guy for the bin Laden debacle". It said Pasha's resignation "was only a matter of time".

There were also uncorroborated reports that Pasha met the CIA's station chief in Islamabad before going abroad and reminded him of the ISI's contributions in the war on terror and the lead about bin Laden's courier that eventually led the US to the al Qaeda chief.

Though the Corps Commanders meeting on Thursday tried to address public doubts about the military's capabilities, analysts and observers have said that there are numerous unanswered questions regarding bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad, just 120 km from Islamabad, and the US raid.

Though US officials have said they do not have any evidence which proves that the top brass of the Pakistani military and intelligence were aware of bin Laden's presence in the country, they have put the onus on Pakistan to prove its innocence.

"Pakistan is now being asked to do something that could prove its sincerity and commitment to the fight against militancy," the Dawn reported. While addressing a news briefing on bin Laden's killing on Thursday, Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir said reports about the ISI and elements in the government being in cahoots with al Qaeda were "a false hypothesis".

Indradhanush Goldie
Indradhanush
Indradhanush

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Posts: 2457

Posted: 08 May 2011 at 11:35pm | IP Logged
It is being discussed now tthat US has vital information implicating ISI directly in 26/11 attack, in fact a US court has issued warrant against some ISI officials visavis case where US citizens got killed in the same attack, this piece of information is being used to arm twist Pak at suitanle places.

Further now it is widely beleived (NY Times) S Wing of ISI sheltered OBL.
 
US has called top Pak generals to US so that suitable changes (acc to US loyalty) can be made  in Pak top brass.
Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posted: 09 May 2011 at 12:29am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Indradhanush

It is being discussed now tthat US has vital information implicating ISI directly in 26/11 attack, in fact a US court has issued warrant against some ISI officials visavis case where US citizens got killed in the same attack, this piece of information is being used to arm twist Pak at suitanle places.

Further now it is widely beleived (NY Times) S Wing of ISI sheltered OBL.
 
US has called top Pak generals to US so that suitable changes (acc to US loyalty) can be made  in Pak top brass.
I will not be surprised if some of these people were relatives too.
Forever-KA IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 09 May 2011 at 7:48am | IP Logged
This is a little one sided but it basically says what I said.

1) In the end the war is US and for that it is getting help from Pakistan and paying for services it is getting. I remember Musharraf scolded US media on this aid issue. He explained how much went to services and how much was aid. Then he compared it to what US spends in Iraq. It was peanuts. I think there is net loss if you compare how the economy has been afffected. Also you cannot put a dollar amoung to human life so that is on top of the economic cost.
 
2) Finding and hiding of such people in the end is not a great surprise. We have a lawless banana in afghanistan as neighbor, a tribal area, shared ethnicity which freely roams around, millions of afghan refugees, and as I said all those so called Mujahids who never left. I mean their own countries dont accept them and left it to Pakistan to manage.
 
Anyway interesting article
 
NEW DELHI: Strained US- Pakistan ties following the US raid that killed Osama bin Laden are being seen in India as an opportunity to ramp up pressure on Islamabad over militant groups operating on Pakistani soil.

But analysts say India's leverage remains strictly limited as long as the US priority in South Asia remains the conflict in Afghanistan -- for which Washington's dependence on Pakistan shows no short-term sign of waning.

In the immediate aftermath of bin Laden's death, India seized on the fact that the Al-Qaeda leader had been hiding barely two hours' drive from Islamabad as proof of the Pakistani establishment's collusion with outlawed militants.

"This fact underlines our concern that terrorists belonging to different organisations find sanctuary in Pakistan," Home Minister P. Chidambaram said.

Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna joined in, calling on world powers to help eliminate "safe havens that have been provided to terrorists in our own neighbourhood."

There was a triumphant "we told you so" tone to the comments from India which feels the international community -- the United States in particular -- has paid little more than lip service to its repeated accusations that Pakistan nurtures militant groups on its soil.

There were nods of approval in New Delhi as some US lawmakers accused Pakistan of playing a double game and demanded answers from Islamabad over how bin Laden could have stayed where he was undetected for so long.

The hope is that Washington will now take a tougher line with Pakistan and push Islamabad to crack down on militant outfits, especially the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), which India says was behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

However, most analysts believe that hope will go unrealised because of the US reliance on Pakistani cooperation in its pursuit of Islamist extremists and the supply of 100,000 US troops stationed in Afghanistan.

Neighbouring Pakistan is crucial for Washington's efforts in Afghanistan both logistically and in the battle against Taliban fighters who shelter in the border region.

"The US isn't going to pull out the heavy diplomatic guns with Pakistan any time soon, no matter how high eyebrows may have been raised over bin Laden's hiding place," said Shashank Joshi, an associate fellow at the RUSI defence and security think-tank in London.

"And India doesn't really have the leverage to make the US do that. What can India threaten? 'Press down on the LeT or else'-- what?"

US-India ties have warmed in recent years and Washington wants a long-term strategic relationship with New Delhi, but President Barack Obama's administration is not seen as giving India the same importance as that of his predecessor George W. Bush.

For all the commercial incentives offered by India's fast-growing economy, the United States cannot afford to alienate Pakistan and lose its help with the Afghan conflict.

"Far from unravelling the remaining threads in the strained US-Pakistan relationship, the bin Laden affair is likely to prove a temporary setback," said Brahma Chellaney, professor of strategic studies at the Center for Policy Research in New Delhi.

"Washington may brandish new sticks, but carrots would still weigh more.

"When the dust settles, it is likely to be business as usual: Indians impotent as ever, Pakistanis playing both an ally and an enemy, and Americans doling out further multibillion-dollar awards to Islamabad," he said.

The United States has given $18 billion to Pakistan since the September 11, 2001 attacks, when the nuclear-armed nation officially ended support of Afghanistan's Taliban and agreed to work with America.

Most of the money has gone to the Pakistani military.

The Indian military has sought to add some steel to India's stance in recent days, with the army and air chiefs both suggesting that India was capable of emulating the US operation against bin Laden and launching surgical strikes against "terrorist" targets in Pakistan.

Pakistan reacted quickly, warning that any such "misadventure" would provoke a "very strong" response.

"This is all largely rhetorical on India's part," said Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, a South Asia expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

"India's options are limited, and I would be surprised if any senior Indian official really believes the bin Laden fallout will strengthen India's hand in any significant way," Roy-Chaudhury said.
 
My humbe advice to Indian government is to deal directly with Pakistan. Recently there was cricket diplomacy, bilateral talks and talks of trust development and soon as this news came  out, cat came out of the bag. Why follow this decades old approach of tit for that? In the end it never works as other countries see their own interest. Even if they support you it must be in their interest. This mindset of getting help from US and UK to corner Pakistan does not suit an emerging power like India.
 
This way you don't alienate Pakistani people also. Honestly it just not make sense to me if I was an Indian.
 
This is an honest advice however I know it won't be taken in good spirit here.
 
P.S: There is lot of conspiracy theories going as to someone hasfled etc. I think we should not loose calm and wait for facts to come out.


Edited by K-A-L - 09 May 2011 at 8:04am
Indradhanush Goldie
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Posts: 2457

Posted: 09 May 2011 at 2:54pm | IP Logged
^^
Finding and hiding of such people in the end is not a great surprise. We have a lawless banana in afghanistan as neighbor, a tribal area, shared ethnicity which freely roams around, millions of afghan refugees, and as I said all those so called Mujahids who never left. I mean their own countries dont accept them and left it to Pakistan

It was not in  Afghanistan but OBL was caught hiding in Pakistan ,
 
 I agree with the message that India needs to adopt a different strategy , US- Pak romace will last till 2014 (as it seems now). 

On a lighter note a cartoon from a US newspaper
 
Image

The following 1 member(s) liked the above post:

-PoisonIvy-

Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posts: 44348

Posted: 09 May 2011 at 7:46pm | IP Logged
Most of these fights etc are more politically and commercially instigated for personal gains by some groups or parties. The majority of the people in all countries just want to live in peace as they are all struggling to make ends meet.
Over a period of time things can only improve esp after a few bad hats are removed.
The efforts to cleanse the system has to go on, but sadly many lives will be lost.
I cannot believe they even bomb the mosques n schools in Pakistan. They want to strike fear.



Edited by Summer3 - 10 May 2011 at 1:46am
Indradhanush Goldie
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Posted: 10 May 2011 at 12:40am | IP Logged
US charge cheet in 26/11 attack on Mumbai names 4 ISI officials...

In another report...it was fully supervised and directed by ISI officials sitting some where in Karachi via VoIP..

link

Also an OBL like operation was planned 10 years ago and agreed upon by Pakistan

Pak newspaper


Edited by Indradhanush - 10 May 2011 at 12:44am
Summer3 IF-Stunnerz
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Posts: 44348

Posted: 10 May 2011 at 2:19am | IP Logged

Because of the India/Pakistan war in Kashmir I believe there are people in both countries that have deep hatred towards each other.

But bringing the fights are war to a city like Mumbai is too much.  Such persons should not go unpunished whosoever they may be.  There is a lot of money involved in all this.
 
I never liked wars and neither do I like people from the army ( whichever country it may be). Most army personnel are like animals esp during wars and fights. Drug dealer and terrorists are worse . And of course most politicians are not straight either.
 


Edited by Summer3 - 10 May 2011 at 2:23am

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