Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer

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Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer
Bhagonwali - Baante Apni Taqdeer

Guddu Looking For His Place

Julie0001 Goldie
Julie0001
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Posts: 1918

Posted: 03 May 2011 at 9:07am | IP Logged
Hi Everyone,

This is my first new post is this forum. I have been so moved by the intelligent conversation and also the complex beauty of this show. Thank you for creating such a warm welcoming place. I have been in awe of the posts, creations and VM;s

One thing that really struck me today is the fact that Guddu wonders if
Runjhun cares if he is happy. This is not the first instance where Guddu has tried to understand his place within her mind and heart.

If we look at the following scenes:
1. When he thinks that she tricked him into going to the temple and makes her swear on his head, he asks, "who am I to you anyway?"
2. When he thinks that she made him eat the spicy food, he asks her "why do you believe everyone but me?" Again, he wants to have a place.
3.
When gives the tonic to
Runjhun he asks "who else made this but me, who else would do so." Funny question, because of course there is dadima. But he wants her to think that logically it would be him
4. When creating the mobile center asks
Runjhun why she always sticks up for her aunt and uncle. He wants her to recognize his actions as he tries to defend her.
5. Today he says that she does not care about his feelings, only others

I am struck by these exchanges. Guddu knows that Runjhun does her duty to her family and also loves her grandmother. Right now he knows that she is doing her duty to Guddu. But  I feel that he is constantly seeking something else for her. He sees the love that she has for Amma and the unconditional respect out of duty that she has for her  evil relatives and he wants his place. Right now his place appears to be within her duty as patnidharma

In a way I feel that he resists her desire to change him, because he wants her to see the unchanged raw Guddu is not so bad. After all when he put his hands around  her neck, it was because she saw him as so unworthy that his mere touch made things impure. At that point Guddu had said, now you will see another side of him, meaning that she had not understood his real nature and never understood him in the first place.

Now I think that he is seeking subconscious guidance from her, but also a realization from her that the unchanged Guddu is not a savage or impure. If she can defend her mamis and mamas, why can't she appreciate him for himself? Is he that bad?

Guddu has always stared at
Runjhun, not just because he is attracted to her, but because he seeks to see himself.  I see her as a mirror that Guddu uses to view his actions.  I think that he is constantly asking Runjhun, who is he to her, to not only see himself and who he is, but also to challenge the line that she has between caring for others out of love and caring for others out of duty,


Right now he is mostly her duty, but I think that he wants to see if there are  any feelings there that recognize him as a person. Those feelings would take Runjhun out of her comfort zone. Her only real love has been for her grandmother.



Edited by jpalagrawal - 03 May 2011 at 9:10am

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uzee Senior Member
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 9:40am | IP Logged
u bring up some gr8 points...will comment more later...

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Julie0001

Wafah IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 10:08am | IP Logged
This is true. I think Guddu has started to more and more see the reflection of his actions within Runjhun. Even though it isn't a conscious effort. I've said this before, but to me, both Guddu and Runjhun seek acceptance and belonging...Runjhun's is more apparent than Guddu's in some ways but it is there nonetheless...The problem stems from the fact that they both don't know what they're seeking because they've never truly had it. I think Gardes mentioned that Runjhun is still clinging to Amma's pallo and until she can let go of that she can't truly step out and understand her own feelings in this matter, because she has to accept Guddu for herself, and not what her Amma wants. I do think that on a subconscious level Guddu has begun to require more...and is looking for his place. I think that on both their part they're trying to find their place and yet deal with everything else, which takes away from them having to step back and consider their own part in all of this.

Yesterday's Runjhun reaction, and today's Guddu's questions seem to take the direction that both still have a long ways to go into accepting each other allowing each other into their hearts on a more emotional level, and I feel that Runjhun's heart is much more guarded than Guddu's at this point because her mind still harks back onto the challenge...

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Julie0001 Goldie
Julie0001
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 10:27am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Wafah

I think Gardes mentioned that Runjhun is still clinging to Amma's pallo and until she can let go of that she can't truly step out and understand her own feelings in this matter, because she has to accept Guddu for herself, and not what her Amma wants.


Yes Wafah, I love this point. Indeed today I was moved by Guddu. He was not disrespectful when he told Dadima that he did not want to go to the temple. He was matter of fact, that he knows that it may be the right thing to do, but it is not for him.  Today he really questions R's vision of seeing things sometimes only as Dadima sees them.  Yesterday of course R tells Dadima, that her happiness lies in if Amma is happy. Today because Guddu could not live up to Dadima's standards, R's vision of him changed and that hurt him.   I think R's challenge over the next few weeks is to see Guddu as a changed man, not ONLY because of her influence, but actually because of her NEW perspective.

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gardes IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 11:10am | IP Logged
Great post Jpal.
 
I think BOTH of them seek acceptance and someone to call their own - a sense of belonging, someone to stand next to them and support them but each views the other almost suspiciously.  They are constantly aware of the other's thougths and actions - assessing, trying to keep one step ahead.  It needs meeting of the minds, but will that happen?  In due time, hopefully
 
Runjhun has Amma and Guddu has his buddies, but peripherally.
 
Amma is setting Runjhun free because she is now married and Guddu's buddies are his partners in crime and they look up to to him, but not his equals in a sense.
 
The two have an opportunity to belong but they have a lot to resolve as each comes from a very different mindset.
 
Runjhun has a need to create Guddu in her mental image of a husband and she needs to gauge his boundaries and not over-step them.  Guddu has a fascination of Runjhun (in a non-sexual way) and her outlook in life and he needs to learn where she is coming from.
 
Her biggest enemy would be her own feelings of him - some fear, distrust, need to control and his biggest enemy will be his anger that overtakes all sane thoughts.  He may start seeing Dinnanath Shukla in her, I am afraid, if she does not stop pointing out his lapses each time he reacts angrily.
 
I don't mean to speculate but my thoughts are based on human behavior.

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gardes IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 11:12am | IP Logged
Originally posted by jpalagrawal

Originally posted by Wafah

I think Gardes mentioned that Runjhun is still clinging to Amma's pallo and until she can let go of that she can't truly step out and understand her own feelings in this matter, because she has to accept Guddu for herself, and not what her Amma wants.


Yes Wafah, I love this point. Indeed today I was moved by Guddu. He was not disrespectful when he told Dadima that he did not want to go to the temple. He was matter of fact, that he knows that it may be the right thing to do, but it is not for him.  Today he really questions R's vision of seeing things sometimes only as Dadima sees them.  Yesterday of course R tells Dadima, that her happiness lies in if Amma is happy. Today because Guddu could not live up to Dadima's standards, R's vision of him changed and that hurt him.   I think R's challenge over the next few weeks is to see Guddu as a changed man, not ONLY because of her influence, but actually because of her NEW perspective.
 
Wafah and Jpal, more than for herself, Runjhun needs to accept Guddu for himself!

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Julie0001 Goldie
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 11:37am | IP Logged
Originally posted by gardes

Runjhun has a need to create Guddu in her mental image of a husband and she needs to gauge his boundaries and not over-step them.  Guddu has a fascination of Runjhun (in a non-sexual way) and her outlook in life and he needs to learn where she is coming from.
 
Her biggest enemy would be her own feelings of him - some fear, distrust, need to control and his biggest enemy will be his anger that overtakes all sane thoughts.  He may start seeing Dinnanath Shukla in her, I am afraid, if she does not stop pointing out his lapses each time he reacts angrily.
 
I don't mean to speculate but my thoughts are based on human behavior.


Hi Gardes, thanks for responding. I am a big fan of yours from the CB forum.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. To me the conversation today between Guddu and Runjhun was the most real conversation they have had. And, as Wafah states, indicates the huge distance between them. Today Guddu looked at Runjhum for her rebuke. He wanted her to say that what he did was wrong, or maybe he craved acceptance from her that maybe he was NOT all wrong. Unfortunately Runjhun could only see the pain that he caused Dadima and that indeed overshadowed any other response that she may have had to this situation. She mentions that Dadima was so happy and that it is ruined. Guddu reacts angrily knowing that he is being held up against a standard that he can never live up to. I thought his plea to Runjhun to see him as a human was very real and sad. She could only see all that he was not. Runjhun only saw his comments as a slap against Dadima and she became very defensive too. 

Even when Guddu says he does not care about the business, that he did it for punishment hurt R. But taken another way, Guddu is saying that he so already stepped out of his comfort zone FOR HER.

CV's created a beautiful scene as we are seeing the turmoil of these characters. I have to say the chemistry of the scene with these two actors is superb. Guddu has a habit of getting very close to Runjhun when he wants her to respond to him. He hates being ignored and close physical proximity is intimidation. But today, after he hears her talk about Dadima, he gets close to her and I felt he was asking her to see him. But alas R's mind was already with Dadima and Dadima's pain.


Edited by jpalagrawal - 03 May 2011 at 11:39am

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Wafah IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 03 May 2011 at 11:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by gardes

Great post Jpal.
 
I think BOTH of them seek acceptance and someone to call their own - a sense of belonging, someone to stand next to them and support them but each views the other almost suspiciously.  They are constantly aware of the other's thougths and actions - assessing, trying to keep one step ahead.  It needs meeting of the minds, but will that happen?  In due time, hopefully
 
Runjhun has Amma and Guddu has his buddies, but peripherally.
 
Amma is setting Runjhun free because she is now married and Guddu's buddies are his partners in crime and they look up to to him, but not his equals in a sense.
 
The two have an opportunity to belong but they have a lot to resolve as each comes from a very different mindset.
 
Runjhun has a need to create Guddu in her mental image of a husband and she needs to gauge his boundaries and not over-step them.  Guddu has a fascination of Runjhun (in a non-sexual way) and her outlook in life and he needs to learn where she is coming from.
 
Her biggest enemy would be her own feelings of him - some fear, distrust, need to control and his biggest enemy will be his anger that overtakes all sane thoughts.  He may start seeing Dinnanath Shukla in her, I am afraid, if she does not stop pointing out his lapses each time he reacts angrily.
 
I don't mean to speculate but my thoughts are based on human behavior.


I agree they are both on seek that acceptance and belonging and Runjhun has to overcome her own mental hurdles in order to take accept Guddu. The fact that he was willing to relent and reflect on his actions do show a growth in Guddu...but I think Runjhun has become a little tied up to notice those measures of growth...

She needs to stop seeing things from the eyes of Amma and see them with her own...and then maybe she will actually be able to see Guddu for who he is...first she has to realize it within herself and then she will be able to see Guddu for himself...and as JPal said she knows that he isn't all that bad...and when she can openly go against him when he speaks against her mama and mamis and never berate them for their actions, she is constantly pointing out his bad deeds...she's most unforgivable towards him, and he seeks most approval from her, rather than anyone else...

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