Bhakti Lessons from MaharishiGarg (RS ShriKrishna) - Page 2

Posted: 13 years ago
However, it is greatly puzzling what was the practical purpose of Balram's birth for the sake of people of the world and for DHARMSANSTHAPAN other than being in the company of Krishna in the childhood (unlike Lakshman taking part in the battle and helping hand throughout the life of Ramji). The way Balram is characterized in BRC's MB; he, on the contrary, always created problems & obstacles on the path of human Krishna for Dharmsansthaapan (Subhadra-haran, Post Bhim-Duryodhan dual) rather than helping him (Krishna) or smoothening his efforts.

Possible aims/positive reasons (not negative contributions in God's overall incarnation leela or drama or plot set) of Balram's incarnation (some devotion point of view and some practical point of view for the good of immediate relatives and some from the point of view of good of the society):

# Just for the sake of fulfilling his desire to accompany lord again and this time becoming elder brother (as shown in the serial) and to show the world that always the person having greater authority (elder brother) should be more knowledgeable (like Ram) to justify the objective rules set by shaastras for dharma's ruling. If the younger brother is more knowledgeable & wise (like Krishna) but not having the formal authority; many twisted ways have to adopted to achieve dharma's victory.

# Giving motherhood pleasure to Rohini (motherhood for some divine being)

# Protecting a few times father & mother in the prison from Kans (the way shown in the serial - but the way it was executed through traveling by subtle body and taking snake's form, that could have been done by coming from Vaikunth also without being incarnated)

# Killing (uddhar) of Chanur & some of the devils like Pralambaasur

# Breaking of ego of Jarasandh - Krishna's order/suggestion to do so possibly to make him somewhat reflective and soul searching before death by giving him years to think for his spiritual welfare (But that Krishna also could have done alone - but then having said that, Ram also could have killed Indrajeet alone)
Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago
Great additions bhaiya, really very thought provoking πŸ‘ lolz glad to see our childhood curiosities also matched πŸ˜†

Regarding the comparison of predictability of Ram and Shyam's futures, I think that the disparity in Valmiki and Garg's jyotish skills is not because of their being different avatars, but the different types of events that can be forecast. Some leelas had to do with praarabdh and shraap-fulfillment and karm phal, like Shabri/Kubja uddhaar and SiyaRam-RadheShyam virah. Because they were tied to destiny, they could be foretold by Valmiki and Garg. Same with the dharmsansthaapan-related necessities like Shri Ram's vanvaas and the Mahabharat War.

But others, like the events that surrounded Shri Krishna Janmashtami and Shri Ram's Setu Bandhan, for example, were not directly related to any individual's fate... they were extraneous miracles enacted just to please devotees and strengthen their faith - not meant to be predicted, just about giving us pleasant surprises. Hence I think they were excluded from the premonitions of Garg and Valmiki and other such sages, so that even they could be pleasantly surprised and ecstatic when they occurred.


As for the purpose of Baldaau's incarnation, all the theories you presented are plausible - in light of the character as shown in SK, I'd def buy the first one. Here's my take on an alternative, especially given the fact that both Ram and Shyam could've vanquished the evildoers their brothers defeated without their assistance: both Lakhanji and Baldaau were needed as character foils for both the pramukh avtaars. To learn the virtues of patience and tolerance from Shri Ram, we needed impatient and impulsive albeit well-intentioned Lakshman as a point of comparison (especially just before Bharat Milaap and Setu Bandhan). To learn to be creative and flexible in capturing the spirit of the law as per the needs of the hour like Shri Krishna, we needed to know how being rigidly bound to the letter of the law like Balram could pose dilemmas (especially in the case of Duryodhan's death).
Posted: 13 years ago
Well said. Perfect convincing interpretation on Lakshman-Balram incarnations. Nothing to add or to ask or to counter.πŸ‘

And I can also understand your take on the surprise leelas of God - broad events of the story were destined but the sub events leading through the main events were random and surprises and they also therefore do differ in different sources of Krishna and Ram as supposed to have occurred all of them in their incarnations in different Kalpas - a theory in which we have achieved consensus. However, whether these actions had anything to do with the karmphal or boons or curses or  not is still a question mark. Despite their randomness in different incarnations, they still were to affect the lives of people of Brahma's sristhi. For example, Janmashtami miracles of hypnotism changed the life of Braj people and Nand-Yashoda-Rohini. Setu bandhan taking place through Nal-Nil instead of through Ram's arrows had effect on their lives - their birth becoming fertile - janm saarthak hona - and by getting the opportunity of serving lord thus, they also must have been destined to get that fruit of devotion. Same can be applied to Sushain vis a vis Jambuvan/Vibhishan directing for Dronagiri.

I mean even if Krishna's and Ram's certain actions were beyond foretelling through their Kundalis because they were beyond the effects of planets (at least Krishna not supposed to behave as Maryada Purushottam) and couldn't be foreseen; still the kundalis of people to be affected by those effects also had no such hints!!!😲
Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago
Originally posted by ShivangBuch


However, whether these actions had anything to do with the karmphal or boons or curses or  not is still a question mark. Despite their randomness in different incarnations, they still were to affect the lives of people of Brahma's sristhi. For example, Janmashtami miracles of hypnotism changed the life of Braj people and Nand-Yashoda-Rohini. Setu bandhan taking place through Nal-Nil instead of through Ram's arrows had effect on their lives - their birth becoming fertile - janm saarthak hona - and by getting the opportunity of serving lord thus, they also must have been destined to get that fruit of devotion. Same can be applied to Sushain vis a vis Jambuvan/Vibhishan directing for Dronagiri.

I mean even if Krishna's and Ram's certain actions were beyond foretelling through their Kundalis because they were beyond the effects of planets (at least Krishna not supposed to behave as Maryada Purushottam) and couldn't be foreseen; still the kundalis of people to be affected by those effects also had no such hints!!!😲


Lolz good call πŸ˜† I should've been more specific in my post, I meant that the miraculous elements of these events - making rocks with His name float on water, breaking handcuffs and subduing a river to reach Gokul - the "how" part of the events, not the "where" or the "through whom?" which involved the good fortune of specific people and places - it was these miracle that I think were outside of the sages' forecasting realm, I think that's what Garg was referring to. As you yourself mentioned in the previous post,

Originally posted by ShivangBuch


But how those things were going to materialize and through whom - that couldn't be seen by even Brahma's son


And the how is simply these miracles which in themselves were not tied to any individual's destiny and in isolation, had no unique purpose other than the manoranjan of us devotees. As far as the portions you referred to - i.e. Nal-Neel, Nand-Yashoda - I would assume that the sages could foretell those for the same reason you mentioned. But no reason they should be deprived of the joyous jhatka of seeing "jinpar kirpa Ram karein" and the whole Yamuna bit in live action instead of prerecorded πŸ˜‰πŸ˜†

Edited by lola610 - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago
Yes. Now perfect harmony of thoughts if we restrict that HOW to only miracles rather than human way of occurrence of events in alternative ways in different kalpas involving other helping devotees graced by Lord.
Posted: 13 years ago
@Shivang,

 β­οΈ   β­οΈ  β­οΈ   for the explanation of 'Krishna-incarnation's  power to change the destined course of events completely' and the 'Independent Karma Theory'.
 
 
We find the words- "…Karm likhe ko par kaat nahi paati hai" in ref to Sita Mata in 'Hum katha sunaate', what is the meaning of this line in ref to 'Independent Karma theory'?  Is it at all πŸ˜ƒ relevant here?
 
 
 
@Lola,
 
LOL!! Hanumaanji's dubbing voice same as Garg??? I couldn't identify that!! Garg is always sooo Peaceful!!!
 
 
Loved the way you categorized the' two group of actions' ⭐️- the 'Destined actions/ Praarabdh/ Shraap Fulfilment' and 'Miracles' …  Really Enjoyed the discussion about Miracles!! β­οΈ β­οΈ

 
And yes, about the point of 'Lakshman- Balram as foils to the main character'!!  πŸ‘   πŸ‘ Very nicely written Dear!
 

I think, nothing more remains to be added regarding this scene. But still my respect for Maharishi Garg made me post here 😊. The way he tells Shandilya Muni that- '… the LORD/ Truth is beyond Mind, Eyes and Knowledge' and he could only see the 'Radiance of Myriads of Suns' in future – make this scene so Pious! "Ab jo honewala hai, woh to unki ichha par nirdharit hai jo vidhaata ke bhi vidhaata hai!"-  All these sentences quoted by Lola is truly the Essence of this scene!!  β­οΈ  β­οΈ  β­οΈ 
Posted: 12 years ago
Very excited that I finally got a chance to revive this thread
Before I post the next scene, just wanted to reply to one point raised by Debi di... even though it was addressed to daau, I'm sure di won't mind πŸ˜‰
Originally posted by Debipriya


 
We find the words- "'Karm likhe ko par kaat nahi paati hai" in ref to Sita Mata in 'Hum katha sunaate', what is the meaning of this line in ref to 'Independent Karma theory'?  Is it at all πŸ˜ƒ relevant here?
IMO it's perfectly relevant di, and the reply is given perfectly in the following scene from Lav Kush... in fact the essence of this scene perfectly mirrors Garg's advice to Lomharsh from that very first scene he discussed. The idea of knowing what's to come in the future, that it will be difficult and painful, and still rolling with it for the sake of duty. As Shri Ram says in this scene, she really wasn't "bound" by destiny - she did indeed have the power to change the course of events, karm ke lekh ko kaatna uske haath mein tha... but, see 4:20 onwards:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC2F2zDfbo[/YOUTUBE]

Edited by lola610 - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Next scene, people... 12:10 into this vid, Akrur has the first of his two highly insightful meetings with Maharishi Garg. He's worried that Kans will harm VD because the hallowed 8th pregnancy is in session, but Garg tells him to rest assured because this one is well-equipped to take care of itself - as well as all around it, given that He's the caretaker of the whole world. Enjoy, discuss, enlighten!
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT17DsBWUtY&t=12m10s[/YOUTUBE]
Posted: 12 years ago
@Lola

Yes. This next scene is very much the building up of my most favourite scene coming up years later. This scene gives us the indication already about Karm vs Gyan cum Bhakti related discussion topic and characterization of the characters of Garg and Akrur and the tuning between them. Somewhat strange though is that Garg muni's moral support to Akrur and assurance over here is a bit opposite to his own demonstrated approach in this context to a small extent thus far in the story. This scene comes before the naming ceremony and until naming ceremony, even sage himself was slightly, if not much, concerned about Krishna's safety and hence is serious about maintaining the confidentiality (Vaatsalya bhaav). He calls this out of great great humbleness, his ego later on after realizing the kid's powers and realizing that almighty can't be harmed a little even in his child form (Shraddha - Shaantbhaav gained). Despite being strange in consistency (self contradicting behaviour), it is very very understandable. While telling Akrur, he demonstrates his knowledge and faith and while feeling concern about Krishna's safety, he fulfills his best identified duty by his mind then until his mind itself realizes and is convinced (or perhaps he always had the knowledge deeply realized - not just the knowledge of intellect, but this time he got immense positive energy from Krishna like Devaki got for a while when he was in her womb). Perhaps the best explanation of why & how he could equally understand and agree to Akrur's arguments in the later scene. "Haan Akrurji. Ye bhi thik hi hai. Jo aap keh rahe ho."

And that description of look of mother earth as a shining planet from other planets is the proud feeling. A specialty of this scene to recall it everytime. Wonderful to imagine and seems very logical. Also the equal glory given to all the three powers incarnating together is nice and appreciable dialog writing.
Edited by ShivangBuch - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago
Edited the previous post - also some brackets added in paragraph addressed to Lola.

@Debipriya

I didn't realize you asked specific question to me in your post otherwise answer would have been immediate and spontaneous.😊 Chalo Lola did it on my behalf to ek hi baat ho gayee. Perhaps I just read your post now. I never saw it. That was posted on 1st April. I was out of touch from MM threads those days - Lakshman-Bharat discussion, Krishna as charioteer of Ram, SDB as Krishna in SK diary. Those discussions I have never been able to read in detail thus far. I could just see them on the surface. Possibly missed the time when you posted while the thread could stay on the first page.

Yes. Mata Sita could definitely have changed her destiny with her power. I have no doubt in my mind. But she didn't. Because that's why and how she came to the earth precisely with the purpose with the very same destiny planned and written.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 12 years ago


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