marrying the kirpan? - Page 2

Posted: 15 years ago
ya yaar ..how can it be ..but anyways thnxx
 
 
 
lub
sara
Posted: 15 years ago
Originally posted by ssandhya1237


hey,
in sikh culture, if the bridegroom is not present, or like unable to come, then the bride can marry the kirpan (like a knife which sikh's usually carry with them). 
this is usually done when the bridegrrom is out of country and cannot come.  so family members of the bridegroom come and get their daughter in law married to a kirpan...which is considered equal to marriage with the bridegroom. 
hope this helps...usually i am very bad at explaining things!!!
 
 
 
wait a minute........ i am a 28 yrs old sikh and in these 28 years i havent heard or seen anything like that..... please do not give any BS about sikhism.... for us marriage is not walking around fire, for us our 3rd guru sahib created Anand Karaj (shadi ki rasm) and both the partners very much have to be there in the gurdwara...... so puhleeeeeeeeeeez.... i dont know the story of this drama but trust me if i see anything like this in the show.............. it will be sued.....nd i will be te first one to take this step. 
Posted: 15 years ago
Originally posted by ssandhya1237


oh i am sorry if i gave the wrong information....😔 never ment to do that. if this doesnt happen that way...then i would also love to know what marrying to a kirpan would mean.  i might not be a sikh..but i have lived in punjab for most of my life...and i seriously dont rememeber how on the earth i know what marrying a kirpan is....
 
sandhaya ji, please ask your mom to ask her friend or her parents what kind of sikhs are they???? Kirpan is there to protect yourself and others against any "zulm", it is not somethng to take laawan (pheras) with.... ai m sorry, if possible, can I have your mom's fiends number or e-mail, I would like to speak to her so that i can get my doubts cleared...... In guru Granth Sahib we have "laawan da paath" that is supposed to be for the bride and the bridegroom, the father of the bride has to tiethe know with the groom's palla and they both have to bow and stand up in front of Guru Sahib and take laawan.... so please, this is a very holy and very special ceremony for us, dont ruin it by giving such information.
 
Only one marriage I know that happened with the Picture was of Shaheed Satwant SIngh's and his wife's..... Shaheed Satwant Singh was one of those guys who killed Indira Gandhi. He was engaged and supposed to be getting married. When he proudly went to the jail, his fiancee at that point said that she was very proud of what he had done after what Indira gandhi did to the holiest shrine of Sikhs, and she would only like to be called his wife. Please read the following, it may help.... this was the only reason and it has to be some dedicated woman only to do that................. Puhleeez I request you not to spread wrong things......
 
Bhai Satwant Singh was incarcerated in Tihar jail in Delhi. His family and his fiance, Bibi Surinder kaur were only allowed to meet him 3 times. One of the officers had lodged a bullet near his spine was still causing him great pain. The authorities would not allow doctors to see him. So one day he used his own fingernail to cut his skin and remove the bullet. After the bullet was removed, he regained his health and was in a state of Chardikala!

The authorities witnessing his better health and shining face thought of new methods to torture him and his family. They prevented his fiance from visiting him, stating that she could only visit once they were married. Bibi Surinder Kaur decided she would marry a photo of Satwant Singh so that they could not use this excuse. Their relatives were unhappy with this decision. Bhai Satwant Singh's father, Sardar Tarlok Singh stated, "Dear daughter, we will marry you to our youngest son Swaran Singh. The Khalsa Panth has had to deal with this brutal Indian Government. How can you ever expect any justice from such a brutal regime? Even the courts are just pawns in the hands of Rajiv Gandhi. There is no hope that Satwant Singh will ever be free!"

Bibi Surinder Kaur replied, "Bapu ji, a woman only ever loves one man. I have already accepted Satwant Singh as my beloved husband. He is my husband, and I am his wife. That is how it shall remain. The brother of Satwant Singh, will be my brother."

Bibi Surinder Kaur's father, Sardar Virsa Singh said, "Daughter, if you do not change your decision to marry the photo of Satwant Singh, then I will commit suicide by taking poison!"

Bibi Surinder Kaur replied, "Dear Father ji, Gurbani states, 'Marran Lekiaee Mandal Mae Ayee' so every person has their death written by Akaal Purakh Waheguru before they are born on this earth. Waheguru has already written your last breath and in the same way the decision of my marriage to Satwant Singh cannot change either. If it is written that he is going to die by hanging then that will happen also. I am ready to face whatever comes my way in the future. Until my last breath, I will never let any stain come on respect due to the dastar of Satwant Singh, your dastar, father, and the dastar of my father-in-law."

It was now the year 1988 and the role of Siri Akal Thakhat Jathedar was held by the questionable Jasvir Singh Rode. Due to the fact that Bibi Surinder Kaur would not change her mind to marry the photo of Satwant Singh, both families decided to take her to the Jathedar so he could convince her. Jasvir Singh said to her, "Bibi, do not rush to make such a big decision. There is no hope that the authorities will not give Satwant Singh a sentence of hanging. So do not make such a big life decision, without thinking it through…"

Bibi Surinder Kaur replied, "Singh Sahib ji, you are right. The authorities will give Satwant Singh the hangman's noose. Both our families had decided to marry me and Satwant Singh. Due to Satwant Singh not geeting vacation time off, the wedding was delayed at the last moment. However, if Satwant Singh had killed Indira Gandhi after our marriage, then he would have been sentenced to hanging as well. I, as Satwant Singhs wife would have had to see every hard time in the future. My husband, Satwant Singh completed a great and brave task! The integrity of the Sikh Nation, its dastar, was ripped off by Indira Gandhi and she stamped on it with her feet in June 1984. My husband took the dastar of the Sikh Nation and replaced it on its head. Even in my worst dreams, I could never turn my back on such a great man. It can never happen! I have accepted Satwant Singh as my husband. I will never let a stain come on his Dastar. I will spend my whole life as the widow of Satwant Singh!"

Akal Takhat Jathedar, Jasvir Singh Rode, said to both fathers of Satwant Singh and Bibi Surinder Kaur, that, due her strength of will, she should  be allowed to marry the photo of Satwant Singh, in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. According to the hukam of Singh Sahib, on the 2nd May 1988, Satwant Singh's father, Bapu Tarlok Singh, his mother,  his elder brother and his wife, left their house with a picture of Satwant Singh and went to the house of Sardar Virsa Singh. In the presence of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, Bibi Surinder kaur married the photo of Satwant Singh. In the afternoon, the Doli of Bibi Surinder Kaur left the residence of Sardar Virsa Singh for the house of Bhai Satwant Singh.

 

so this is the truth of that story.... look how many people got involved, even the main guy from our Akal Takht Sahib...... I hope I was able to put some sense in those brains who think that Sikhs are idiots adn do these stupid things........
Posted: 15 years ago
Okaay being a sikh myself i have never heard it about! and with
my sikhi knowledge i have never heard or have read to marry a kirpan
so pls dont say things wich are not true!
Posted: 15 years ago
wooo.....all those  feedbacks are interesting- a little harsh though :-(  i can sit here and argue every point of urs...but its of no use as this argument will go on forever.....and ...i dont say u believe me or whatever.  i am gonna cease my posts until we see what happens in meet mila de rabba.... 
(also my mom's friend got married more than 30 years ago....and as expected she is not in touch with her anymore so cant porvide u the numbers/email)
Posted: 15 years ago
I am sikh too born and brought up in Punjab but currently in US. Whatever SSandhya1237 has said is absolutely right. This happens a lot in the Punjab villages where the girls in arranged marriage are married to the Kirpan where usually the groom being in another country or being hospitalized under unfortunate circumstance is unable to be present in the wedding. This, FYI, Sonu98 , is true and real even these days although now the immigration rules are so tough.
Also having seen both the east and west, and knowing my culture very well and a staunch believer in Guru Granth Sahib and also reading Granth Sahib almost everyday, let me tell you that Guru Granth Sahib was written well before our Sikh religion was established by the 10th Guru, Guru Gobindsinghji. He set up the sikh maryada and the anandkaraj rasm of four pheras aound the Holy book as Gobind Singh ji being a scholar and a warrior knew that according to the vedas 3.5 Pheras complete the wedding, so even though the Hinduism has seven pheras with seven vows, 3.5 pheras accomplish the wedding. SO Guru GobindSinghji established four pheras and since for sikhs our Guru is The Granth Sahib, the Ultimate, we have four pheras around The Holy Book. You will not find this written in the Granth Sahib. But Sonuji, for Hindus, the Fire is as Pure as our Babaji is to us, so to write so strongly against somebody with half a knowledge is wrong.
Also FYI, I don't think there are many sikhs out there who consider Satwant Singh as Bhaiji ( a term used for reverence for sikh men) as what happened during that phase was bad ,ugly and very political. Please enlighten yourself with the complete basics of the problem, the political system, the atrocities and bias of the government and above all difference between terrorism, fight for justice and Gundaism.

Having said that, I would like to say that I am proud to be a sikh and will keep all the maryada no matter where I live, but would not demean any other religion.
Posted: 15 years ago
...Edited by ssandhya1237 - 15 years ago
Posted: 15 years ago
 
Edited by sonu98 - 15 years ago
Posted: 15 years ago
Originally posted by lotus8


I am sikh too born and brought up in Punjab but currently in US. Whatever SSandhya1237 has said is absolutely right. This happens a lot in the Punjab villages where the girls in arranged marriage are married to the Kirpan where usually the groom being in another country or being hospitalized under unfortunate circumstance is unable to be present in the wedding. This, FYI, Sonu98 , is true and real even these days although now the immigration rules are so tough.
Also having seen both the east and west, and knowing my culture very well and a staunch believer in Guru Granth Sahib and also reading Granth Sahib almost everyday, let me tell you that Guru Granth Sahib was written well before our Sikh religion was established by the 10th Guru, Guru Gobindsinghji. He set up the sikh maryada and the anandkaraj rasm of four pheras aound the Holy book as Gobind Singh ji being a scholar and a warrior knew that according to the vedas 3.5 Pheras complete the wedding, so even though the Hinduism has seven pheras with seven vows, 3.5 pheras accomplish the wedding. SO Guru GobindSinghji established four pheras and since for sikhs our Guru is The Granth Sahib, the Ultimate, we have four pheras around The Holy Book. You will not find this written in the Granth Sahib. But Sonuji, for Hindus, the Fire is as Pure as our Babaji is to us, so to write so strongly against somebody with half a knowledge is wrong.
Also FYI, I don't think there are many sikhs out there who consider Satwant Singh as Bhaiji ( a term used for reverence for sikh men) as what happened during that phase was bad ,ugly and very political. Please enlighten yourself with the complete basics of the problem, the political system, the atrocities and bias of the government and above all difference between terrorism, fight for justice and Gundaism.

Having said that, I would like to say that I am proud to be a sikh and will keep all the maryada no matter where I live, but would not demean any other religion.
 
 
 
I just replied through a post to you, but it seems like it didnt get posted.....
 
anyways my points were:
1) I lived in Punjab for 16 years, and now in the US for 12 years. I am a doctor and talking no BS.... I come from a political family, i grew up in it, so dont tell me what politics is..... about immigration law, my father is an immigration lawyer in the US...... Do i need to say more????? My point to post that Stawant SIngh article was that post was that I have never seen or heard such marriage other that theirs. BUT If you have, please if possible provide the pictures or a link. I did some reading yesterday and todaym asked few mature people around, but no one has any idea of such marriage.
 
Good that you read Guru Granth sahib, But make sure that the one you read is actually the genuine one......
Anand Karaj was introduced by Guru Amardas Ji and Laawan by Guru ramdas ji. I have no doubts, if you do, please go through the following link.....
 
 
Then you talk about staying in maryada..... section XViii of Rehat Maryada States this:
 
(j) For marriage, there should be a congregational gathering in the holy presence of Guru Granth Sahib. There should be hymn-singing by ragis or by the whole congregation. Then the girl and boy should be made to sit facing the Guru Granth Sahib. The girl should sit on the left side of the boy. After soliciting the congregation's permission, the master of the marriage ceremony (who may be a man or woman) should bid the boy and girl and their parents or guardians to stand and should offer the Ardas for the commencement of the Anand marriage ceremony.
The officiant should then appraise the boy and girl of the duties and obligations of conjugal life according to the Gurus tenets. (If the boy is not even there, who will listen to these)..... KIRPAN??????
 
The boy and girl should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib to betoken their acceptance of these instructions. Thereafter, the girl's father or the principal relation should make the girl grasp one end of the sash which the boy is wearing over his shoulders (Kirpan ke shoulder nahi hote) and the person in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib should recite the matrimonial circumambulation stanzas (lavan of the fourth Guru in the Suhi musical measure section of the Guru Granth). After the conclusion of the recitation of each of the stanzas, the boy, followed by the girl holding the end of the sash, should go round the Guru Granth Sahib while the ragis or the congregation sing out the recited stanza.

The boy and girl, after every circumambulation, should bow before the Guru Granth Sahib in genuflexion, lowering their forehead to touch the ground and then stand up to listen to the recitation of the next stanza. There being four matrimonial circumambulation stanzas in the concerned hymn, the proceeding will comprise four circumambulations with the incidental singing of the stanza. After the fourth circumabulation, the boy and girl should, after bowing before the Guru Granth Sahib, sit down at the appointed place and the ragis or the person who has conducted the ceremony should recite the first five and the last stanza of the Anand Sahib. Thereafter, the Ardas should be offered to mark the conclusion of the Anand marriage ceremony and the sacred pudding distributed.

 
 
Sikhs do not believe in caste system, but some bhaapa sikhs try to keep themselves as a separate clan....
They may follow such rituals of marrying kirpan etc..... BUT I DOUBT even that....... In case someone does...... it is not religiously done, it may be their social thing.........
 
you read guru granth sahib ji..... good for you..... but read the right one..... Guru Gobiing singh ji's bani is in Dasam granth..... other than Jaap Sahib and Chaupayi Sahib (which is included in Guru Granth Sahib).... but nothing else......
 
My point is not to demean any other religion..... my point is that the TV shows are promoting wrong things about all teh religions basically....... You seem like a newbie.... you may wanna go to "Mayaka Show" of SOny TV, same discussion took place there when they showed so many wrong things about sikhism..... Their dead sonn's picture above Guru Sahib, and another actor from that same show was flirting with his friend's wife by splashin water from Sarovar of Darbar Sahib ( How DEMEANING is that huh!!!!!!)  So please talk with some sense next time, with some prrofs such as some articles and websites...... or name of a book or pictures of someone getting married with kirpan (Other than geet from this drama)............ I PROMISE YOU BRING ONE PROOF AND I WILL APOLOGIZE HERE............ Because I may be wrong......... but you will have to prove it with some solid proof................
Posted: 15 years ago
another link that may clear some doubts::::::::
 

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