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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:18pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by return_to_hades



I believe Liza93 did mention that 11-12 year olds do not learn about condoms. Although I would be shocked if I met a 12 year old who did not know what one was.

not quite sure what she meant which is why i had asked. as for 12 year old kids knowing about condoms, not always the case imo. but even if it were, not in any graphic detail. once they introduce the topic in school, u've created an environment where they do try to find out more.

Anyways sex education is not just about safe sex. It is about being aware of biological changes, understanding the function of the body and what puberty and adolescence is. It is a structured process appropriate for the age level.

structure that is decided by a bunch of liberals?LOL they cant even get other curriculums right (eg. math and sciences) and we're entrusting other aspects to the council?Ouch

A good structured Sex education also delves into social ethics, moral issues, emotional issues related to sexuality.

sure, and a good science education wld delve into rocket making, unravelling dnas, building cyclotrons etc.Tongue But it aint for everyone, is it? Every kid is different.

Young children need to know what is appropriate and inappropriate touch and taught to inform authorities when someone may touch them inappropriately. I really believe that parents should discuss these matters with children from a very young age to protect them from abuse. However, in countries where parents are shy of talking to kids about these matters or in situations where parents are the culprits sex education helps keep children informed.

even in these rare and extreme circumstances, is it realistic for kids to object or report to authorities just because they got that education in school?

Nevertheless, many abused children may not report abuse even if they are aware. But teaching them the facts, their rights and how to get help could potentially save one who has the courage and even one child is worth it.

school systems arent and shldnt be about "saving" one kid. they shld be about serving the interests of a broad cross-section of kids. otherwise, we'll be holding up the class every time a dumb kid cldnt follow along.Smile 



The biggest problem is that people consider sex education as something 'dirty' that will warp children and ruin their youth. Sex education is not rocket science that only certain children can learn and understand. It is our body. It is the most natural process, it is the very reason of our existence. Understanding our body is the most basic information a person can receive.

We do not need sex education to open the door to sex for kids. Like it or not kids these days are exposed to sex and sexuality more than any generation. Kids are naturally curious and the more taboo we make a subject the more likely they are going to be drawn to it and find out more.

Parents and schools can work to educate children about the facts, and create a good foundation of sexual behavior and social expectations or you can just shut up and let your kids be misinformed by friends and random strangers who could give them many misconceptions and warped ideas.

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Gauri_3

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qwertyesque

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Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:20pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by darkness_123

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Then how would it help... telling kids about ovaries and fallopian tubes that they have to use condoms..!!!! this linking is baseless!!!



Sex being taught scientifically does not only consist of education only about the reproductive system, but also about diseases and how they're spread and what these diseases ultimately do to your body. It's not all ovaries and fallopian tubes, for godssake! then what..is that...can you post a primer please..LOL

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Please use scientific facts to explain how two people get aids with their first encounter if neither had aids..


A person's first sexual encounter need not be with another virgin. In India, many newly married brides get AIDS from their husbands who had slept around before marriage and then passed it on to them... Also, many gay men in India, still in the closet, who are scared of the stigma of coming out, marry a woman just to hide that they're gay, while continuing to sleep with other men on the side. They get AIDS from some random dude they slept with, and then pass it on to their wife, and if the wife gets pregnant, the child too. Yes educate them on not going to hookers and turning gay.. I think.. thats where family and indian  values come into picture... rather than american crapp y methodologies...

Originally posted by qwertyesque

And exactly what "route" is this that you mean?everything like Sex, and cause of aids etc.. if you want to tell them just say you HAVE to wear condoms.. like you have to wear helmets.. you dont have to start a class on central nervous system to tell people to wear helmets!!!LOL


Wearing a helmet is much more straightforward than wearing a condom... The immediate effects of not wearing a condom are not seen, as it is seen with a helmet.... It's a few months/even years later that HIV/other STDS start to manifest themselves.  so also people dying in accidents is straightforward... all is seen if you accept it.. you dont have to go throough elaborate processes to drive a point...

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Everyone learns about sex by the time they are 16, at the latest. Sure and where is this statistic coming from.. kids have veri vague idea until they are 18.. I read nick carter at 13.. doesnt mean I knew what sex was.. Kids generally uninterested in sex.. but by this baseless structured training you are forceing their attention to something they could veri well ignore.. if the small number wants to live on the edge and die so be it.. there are these guys who drive recklessly and drunk so it doesnt really matter....


I said latest by 16. I'm sure Nick Carter had learnt by 16 what sex is, if not experimented with it already. *rolls eyes* Not necessarily.. I am sure most who think they know what it is are still meandering in the dark...LOL

And what you are saying is truly apalling! So just because a few people are uneducated about something (which is YOUR fault really), you rather condmen them to death for not knowing about all this, than actually educate them?! First control drunk driving... dont let them be gay.. tell them not to go to hookers...that is teach them good values not the american crap...

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Yes... thats called lost innocence....Nobody is telling anybody to hide.. all I am saying you dont have to formalize and get it in their focus.. I am in favor of leaving them alone unlike you who wants them to be taught something God knows what.. and it doesnt include po*n and strippers!!!  man that will make many of these guys gay...!!! please dont promote this...


Really, I'm curious now. Did your teacher pop in a po*n tape and invite strippers to your class to teach you about sex? How.... unusual (and exciting for the boys in your class). How did YOU learn about sex? Please do enlighten me. Mostly from books, and some from videos.. i had some people educate me formally but that went over myhead most of the times...

I studied in a CBSE school and I can speak for all CBSE schools when I say that we weren't treated to discourses by strippers and po*n. We learnt in normal 11th grade Biology.

Lost innocence? Did you lose your "innocence" when you you learnt about how a plant transports food and water through the xylem and phloem? Did you lose "innocence" when you learnt about how respiration takes place? Then why should you lose your so-called innocence when you're learning about just anoher normal biological process that occurs EVERYDAY?

See, this is EXACTLY the problem. You refuse to see sex as just another objective biological process. Which is what it is. It is not a big deal. It's people who think like you who make a big deal of it. Sex is not just strippers and po*n. Sex is a method of procreation, and a way human beings build intimacy.

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Ya...man..thats true and  on the flip side those disgusting pictures of the female anatomy!!! fallopian tube and ovaries and all those organs man - just survived being gay...LOLLOL i know of several friends who went for the delivery of their babies and after looking at the sight of their wife ended up divorcing her....


If you're so squeamish that diagrams of  the female reproductive system are enough to turn you GAY, then I'd think of you as very immature. I'm not really surprised you oppose sex education then. You need a certain amount of mental maturity to understand it properly, so needsay, anyone without that will just have a narrow understanding of the subject with equally narrow minded views about its education.

Originally posted by qwertyesque

People who get aids mostly die..o learning the last lesson is done.....n its like those reckless drivers on the road.. or drunk driving or any such irresponsible things...they have no right to spread it to the unsuspecting people...

Again, you're condemning the uneducated to a slow painful death, and rather than trying to stop that from happenning to another person, who is not uneducated by his choice, but rather because of the board of education, who shares a narrow minded view of sex with you. So you create the unducated by withholding information, and then you wish death upon them because they didn't miraculously gain knowledge.

I think people just try to support ideas which edge on the controversy.. I am sure none of this education is saving any life... its basic human nature to violate conservative convention and just obtain the thrill... Otherwise why would somebody spend time in these baseless attempts at education...See you need to come out of darkness and see the true light of righteous living with values and tradition... rather than sending a whole generation to hookers and po*nography but with condoms!!!!LOL

So rather save the child from this corruption of mind then telling him how he can safely be corrupted...!!



Edited by qwertyesque - 12 May 2008 at 9:26pm

qwertyesque

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qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006

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Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:24pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by return_to_hades



I believe Liza93 did mention that 11-12 year olds do not learn about condoms. Although I would be shocked if I met a 12 year old who did not know what one was.

not quite sure what she meant which is why i had asked. as for 12 year old kids knowing about condoms, not always the case imo. but even if it were, not in any graphic detail. once they introduce the topic in school, u've created an environment where they do try to find out more.

Anyways sex education is not just about safe sex. It is about being aware of biological changes, understanding the function of the body and what puberty and adolescence is. It is a structured process appropriate for the age level.

structure that is decided by a bunch of liberals?LOL they cant even get other curriculums right (eg. math and sciences) and we're entrusting other aspects to the council?Ouch

A good structured Sex education also delves into social ethics, moral issues, emotional issues related to sexuality.

sure, and a good science education wld delve into rocket making, unravelling dnas, building cyclotrons etc.Tongue But it aint for everyone, is it? Every kid is different.

Young children need to know what is appropriate and inappropriate touch and taught to inform authorities when someonecuay touch them inappropriately. I really believe that parents should discuss these matters with children from a very young age to protect them from abuse. However, in countries where parents are shy of talking to kids about these matters or in situations where parents are the culprits sex education helps keep children informed.

even in these rare and extreme circumstances, is it realistic for kids to object or report to authorities just because they got that education in school?

Nevertheless, many abused children may not report abuse even if they are aware. But teaching them the facts, their rights and how to get help could potentially save one who has the courage and even one child is worth it.

school systems arent and shldnt be about "saving" one kid. they shld be about serving the interests of a broad cross-section of kids. otherwise, we'll be holding up the class every time a dumb kid cldnt follow along.Smile 



The biggest problem is that people consider sex education as something 'dirty' that will warp children and ruin their youth. Sex education is not rocket science that only certain children can learn and understand. It is our body. It is the most natural process, it is the very reason of our existence. Understanding our body is the most basic information a person can receive. Hasnt this been happening in the US whats the result.. they started AIDS virus, promiscuity is on the rise.. kids get frustrated and shoot each other... These things only promote wrong side of education not the one which you are trying to drive...

We do not need sex education to open the door to sex for kids. Like it or not kids these days are exposed to sex and sexuality more than any generation. Kids are naturally curious and the more taboo we make a subject the more likely they are going to be drawn to it and find out more. Leave them alone they and is there a problem if they learn it within their own family at their own pace..!!!!!

Parents and schools can work to educate children about the facts, and create a good foundation of sexual behavior and social expectations or you can just shut up and let your kids be misinformed by friends and random strangers who could give them many misconceptions and warped ideas. No they just teach whats necessary.. this is part of the parental education.. not public... discourse...

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 21354

Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:47pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by darkness_123

[ Everyone learns about sex by the time they are 16, at the latest. Are you referring to some kind of "purity" that is destroyed when a person learns about sex? Nonsense. It's something everyone knows about anyway, then why "hide" and act "ashamed" about knowing it?

 Actually not everyone reaches puberty at same age. Kids who aren't there yet may feel inadequate in sex ed class at 14 and could end up developing emotional issues for the rest of their lives.

Movies have PG13 and above 17 or 18 yrs of age ratings for nudity or sexual content. Its just that mentally, kids below the age of 17 or 18  may not be able to handle the sexual, emotional aspects of  sexual activity.



Kids are hitting puberty faster. Most kids start hit puberty by 14 nowadays except a few. Even if a kid is not hit puberty they may have a large section of their peers in puberty. Sex education is not geared to make anyone feel inadequate. In fact many kids start feeling inadequate without sex education as they do not understand why their friends have changed physically and emotionally. Sex education helps teenagers understand the puberty process and the stages of biological development. It helps them relate to why their friends have changed and become so hormonal. Sex education helps kids in all stages of puberty understand each other and function harmoniously.

 You inadvertently explained my point very well but still missed the point.Smile . Kids want to be alike not different from their friends. they can't wait to be adults. I don't think they are worried about their friends hormonal behaviuor as much as why they are not there yet.



Actually I think you are further illustrating my point too. When a girl notices that her friend came back from summer vacation with bigger boobs and the guys are all flocking behind her she develops jealousy and insecurity. Even without sex education she wonders why she is not developed yet. Some are worried about their friends hormonal behavior. While their friends get busy flirting with or noticing the opposite sex, they feel like they dont fit in as their hormones have not kicked in yet.

As Gauri said at this point it is more of health and bio rather than sex education. With this education children learn the stages of development and why some may be early and some are not. Sex education prepares kids for these changes and helps late bloomers deal with the way their friends are changing.

It is not all about sex. I am not sure about boys, but girls will have a lot of questions about their development that many conservative parents do not tend to answer clearly or rush through. What is the period? Why does it take place? How often can they expect it? Why do they experience mood swings? Is pain normal? Why do they feel bloated? What is PMS and PMDD? Is a discharge normal? Information about proper hygiene? Can they shave down there? What sort of infections can women have? When should they start wearing a bra? Are sports bras better or the usual kind? Will they still be able to do their activities like sports etc during their period or while boobs get in the way? Pads or tampons? Will using tampons cause them to tear the hymen? What about bicycling? My friend told me blah is it true? My boyfriend says blah is it true?

In fact I recommend every mom as a 16th birthday to gift their daughter the V-monologue or take them to a performance.

Sex education or rather health education is not just about sex condoms STD and birth control.
It is about understanding ones body - knowing the facts, why we undergo biological changes and how to deal with it.
It is about respecting ones body - preventing misinformation and not letting other people give us negative body images or putting us in uncomfortable situations.
It is about looking after ones body - knowing basics of health and hygiene and proactively identifying inflections, risks etc. Its not just STDs but knowing things that can go wrong naturally and what to watch for. In areas where hygiene is not that high people need to know about UTI and other bacterial information. Girls need to identify abnormal menstrual patterns that could be caused by hormonal imbalances or poor nutrition.

lighthouse

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lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:53pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by lighthouse

......of SE to young kids (10 and up) .

I think you guys are panicking unnecessarily.  It's not even called SE till they reach high school.  they start in 7 th grade as part of Health Science class.  You need to look at the curriculum before blocking this subject just because it has the "s" word in the name.  Please read my post on page ____  I explained there the approach schools take.     I am not against biology lessons but SE goes into details and joys of sex per say eg. how to use condoms the right way by using it on a prop, talking about contraception Confused, (btw USA has highest teen prenancy rate even with planned parenthood assistance, go figure) etc. 

 I am not too sure if it will be taken in the right context by the kids or it could help the likes of Britney spears 16 year old sister who got preganant.Confused 

SE helps with a lot of issues and it certainly helps teens in avoiding pregnancies and STDs if they choose not to abstain.  Britanny's 16 yr old sister did not get pregnant because she took SE out of context. She was hardly ignorant of perils of having unprotected sex either.Smile USA has highest teen prenancy rate even with planned parenthood assistance. I believe I read somewhere , some schools do distribute condoms/contraceptive pills to young ones as young as 13.

Even in regular curriculum, some kids fail in math or english or science.  phir kya karey yaar?  sab ko padhana chhod dey kyoonki some handful of duffers failed even after they were taught the subject!!!  Think about all those who got educated and took the education seriously...not those who disregarded what they were taughtSmile  can't apply same logic here. Smile May be biology but math and science are not same as sex ed which has self interest as motivating factor.

Its their age, curiosity and inability to comprehend and reconcile with the changes they are going thru that could work in the way it was not intended to in the first place.

That's why they need age appropriate factual education so that they comprehend sex as what it is as a biological function first.  Rest of the creativity that goes into making it fun can come later on when they grow up.  Atleast cover the basics first with the facts and not some blown out of proportion images pictures like Blue Lagoon created for teens in mid 80's.

Look at the curriculum and approach they use.  It can't be taken out of context unlike the media and stories from peers.

As for picking up things from media or friends and family,  it is enough to know that having sex which could lead to pregnancy or STD , is not desirable for young kids.

Nope.  I don't feel it's enough.  Kids now a days are very bright and curious.  They need to know WHY it is not desirable and I do not think media and friends tell them what they should be learning in the first place.  Rather, they tell them about stuff that may get their fantasies going full throttle.  Like qwerty said before , Its like telling them to control a reflex action. Sex Ed cannot change fantasies or fetishes (adults are proof of that), cannot teach them anymore then what they already know thru books, videos, friends, and consequences /dangers already discussed everywhere in media.

I don't think SE can act as a deterent to have sex for those who going to do it anyway. We are actually giving too much credit to kids to make a rational decision when adults have hard time making a rational decision against raging sexual hormones.

Most of the ones who are going to go for it anyways will go for it as educated responsible people. What's the harm then?  I am not saying a kid will always make a rational decision but it's still far far better to make an informed decision rather than an irrational ignorant decision.  If they choose not to abstain, they should know what they are getting into and what some of the ill-effects could be. Again you are making assumption that they will make right use of SE  , not so cos most teens who end up getting pregnant or engaging in high risk unsafe sex are doing it just like how some adults do. because they are careless or they want to be daring and not because of any unawareness on the dangers of sex.

For eaxmple, not so long ago, a lot of teenagers were indulging in oral sex thinking it will prevent them from stds as they are not doing the actual act.  They were ignorant of the fact that they can get certain stds in their throat as well. Most teenagers who have had SE understand this repercussion now a days.  Better to make informed choices than ignorant ones...even if they happen to be an irrational choice.  They don't need formal sed for that, they have internet and media and other means of information.

We are living in the age of free and a lot more information than can possibly be used ever. and for something related to sex or health it doesn't stay uncovered even for a minute.  

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:54pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by return_to_hades



I believe Liza93 did mention that 11-12 year olds do not learn about condoms. Although I would be shocked if I met a 12 year old who did not know what one was.

not quite sure what she meant which is why i had asked. as for 12 year old kids knowing about condoms, not always the case imo. but even if it were, not in any graphic detail. once they introduce the topic in school, u've created an environment where they do try to find out more.

Anyways sex education is not just about safe sex. It is about being aware of biological changes, understanding the function of the body and what puberty and adolescence is. It is a structured process appropriate for the age level.

structure that is decided by a bunch of liberals?LOL they cant even get other curriculums right (eg. math and sciences) and we're entrusting other aspects to the council?Ouch

A good structured Sex education also delves into social ethics, moral issues, emotional issues related to sexuality.

sure, and a good science education wld delve into rocket making, unravelling dnas, building cyclotrons etc.Tongue But it aint for everyone, is it? Every kid is different.

Young children need to know what is appropriate and inappropriate touch and taught to inform authorities when someonecuay touch them inappropriately. I really believe that parents should discuss these matters with children from a very young age to protect them from abuse. However, in countries where parents are shy of talking to kids about these matters or in situations where parents are the culprits sex education helps keep children informed.

even in these rare and extreme circumstances, is it realistic for kids to object or report to authorities just because they got that education in school?

Nevertheless, many abused children may not report abuse even if they are aware. But teaching them the facts, their rights and how to get help could potentially save one who has the courage and even one child is worth it.

school systems arent and shldnt be about "saving" one kid. they shld be about serving the interests of a broad cross-section of kids. otherwise, we'll be holding up the class every time a dumb kid cldnt follow along.Smile 



The biggest problem is that people consider sex education as something 'dirty' that will warp children and ruin their youth. Sex education is not rocket science that only certain children can learn and understand. It is our body. It is the most natural process, it is the very reason of our existence. Understanding our body is the most basic information a person can receive. Hasnt this been happening in the US whats the result.. they started AIDS virus, promiscuity is on the rise.. kids get frustrated and shoot each other... These things only promote wrong side of education not the one which you are trying to drive...

We do not need sex education to open the door to sex for kids. Like it or not kids these days are exposed to sex and sexuality more than any generation. Kids are naturally curious and the more taboo we make a subject the more likely they are going to be drawn to it and find out more. Leave them alone they and is there a problem if they learn it within their own family at their own pace..!!!!!

Parents and schools can work to educate children about the facts, and create a good foundation of sexual behavior and social expectations or you can just shut up and let your kids be misinformed by friends and random strangers who could give them many misconceptions and warped ideas. No they just teach whats necessary.. this is part of the parental education.. not public... discourse...


AIDS originated in Sub Saharan Africa and it was first identified by French and American scientists.

AIDS is not a pandemic affecting USA. If sex education and being open about sex is such a terrible thing why is Europe not suffering a slew of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. It is the conservative push in USA that is preventing kids from knowing the facts.

AIDS is affecting African and subcontinental regions and these countries need to rethink their approach to AIDS awareness.

I whole heartedly agree that parents should be the number one resource for informing kids and guiding them. This should not have to fall on teachers and schools. Since parents have not stepped up to the plate and still refuse to discuss things with their kids schools have to provide information.

This is not  a matter you can leave kids to learn on their own because they do not know better.

Gauri_3

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