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Right or Wrong - who determines that? (Page 3)

chatbuster IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 8:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

we cocoon ourselves in domain of the right and then want our choices to make the statement which seems familiar... and then make a big talk about choices...!!!??? Right and wrong is not relative. it has to be absolute... which is what it has been... LOL

lol, sure.Tongue an "absolute" that keeps changing over time, as we keep discovering new things, at times reversing previous notions of "absolute right or wrong". like the world before galileo. they sure thought they knew which end was up, didnt they?Wink

but u're right about absolut vodka.LOL always the "right" stuff to take if u wanna get a buzz. if u can get the other fizz to add down rightWink

 



Edited by chatbuster - 30 March 2008 at 9:38am
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 9:11am | IP Logged

societies, nations, governments, individuals, families, social groups, religious denominations, corporations, armies all have their own belief systems about what's right or wrong. history books even have their notions of who was right or wrong. scientists too havent always gotten their ideas of right or wrong correct.

problems arise when these clash with other belief systems or rigidly held "absolute" positions. what's right for one person might also be intrinsically wrong for another.

once in a while, leaders come along who shape these ideas of right or wrong for the rest of the folks.
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 9:37am | IP Logged

Originally posted by qwertyesque

...otherwise.. you have criminals...walking on the roads cos somebody perceived their motives for crime right...LOL

question asked is who determines right or wrong, not who SHOULD determine it. Wink

obviously we/ society dont want criminals to be setting the bar for what's right or wrong. but even in this example, from the perspective of the criminal who believes he can get away with it, who doesn't believe in heaven or hell, who doesn't believe in or care about consequences whether in this or in a next-life, why is even a life of crime a wrong thing? if he lives just once, and can get crime to pay, it might even be a perfectly "rational" thing to do. it might horrify us, but why's such a life a bad thing from his/ her perspective?Wink

which is why the answer to the question posed above is- we do, individually, and collectively. and our ideas may or not tally with the notions others have.



Edited by chatbuster - 30 March 2008 at 12:27pm
return_to_hades IF-Veteran Member
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 9:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Like I said if you "think",  there should be nothing like right or wrong...Smile


What do you mean by this - no right or wrong if one can think. Is it some neo-philolosophy along the lines that there is no good and evil - only power.

Originally posted by qwertyesque

the choices not necessarily influence our judgement rather the notion of right or wrong should influence our choices.. just cos a 13 year old takes drugs doesnt make his judgement of 'drugs being right' right,  is it?


There is a gray line being tread here. The thing is that most alcoholics and drug abusers are conscious that what they are doing is 'wrong' but do not have the mental and physical capacity to do the 'right' thing. There are many things that we know as 'wrong' but do anyway and many things we know that are 'right' we do not do, because of the strange notion we foster that its OK this instance.

The law is an attempt to establish a black and white system for judging right or wrong, yet every now and then there are situations where we realize that despite the structure 'right is wrong' and 'wrong is right'.

You simply cannot divide everything in black and white.



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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 12:57pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Like I said if you "think",  there should be nothing like right or wrong...Smile


What do you mean by this - no right or wrong if one can think. Is it some neo-philolosophy along the lines that there is no good and evil - only power.actually thats true.. you cant categorize anything as good or bad right...  

Originally posted by qwertyesque

the choices not necessarily influence our judgement rather the notion of right or wrong should influence our choices.. just cos a 13 year old takes drugs doesnt make his judgement of 'drugs being right' right,  is it?


There is a gray line being tread here. The thing is that most alcoholics and drug abusers are conscious that what they are doing is 'wrong' not really.. it might come as hindsight or post-mortems..  but do not have the mental and physical capacity to do the 'right' thing. See even you are assuming some "right" here....There are many things that we know as 'wrong' but do anyway and many things we know that are 'right' we do not do, because of the strange notion we foster that its OK this instance. As long as this is true I am ok.. Your statement simply means we have already the "right" and "wrong" is well-defined.. its compliane its not total, though.. All I dont agree we defining the right and wrong.. as a part of evolution..Smile

The law is an attempt to establish a black and white system for judging right or wrong, yet every now and then there are situations where we realize that despite the structure 'right is wrong' and 'wrong is right'. The law should not interfere with morality.. its blind and not qualified to make the right decisions...

You simply cannot divide everything in black and white. Actually you can.. if you cant that means either we want the liberty to alter the right and wrong at our convenience...or we want to take liberties with it...Smile



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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 1:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by qwertyesque

...otherwise.. you have criminals...walking on the roads cos somebody perceived their motives for crime right...LOL

question asked is who determines right or wrong, not who SHOULD determine it. Wink

obviously we/ society dont want criminals to be setting the bar for what's right or wrong. but even in this example, from the perspective of the criminal who believes he can get away with it, who doesn't believe in heaven or hell, who doesn't believe in or care about consequences whether in this or in a next-life, why is even a life of crime a wrong thing? if he lives just once, and can get crime to pay, it might even be a perfectly "rational" thing to do. it might horrify us, but why's such a life a bad thing from his/ her perspective?Wink

which is why the answer to the question posed above is- we do, individually, and collectively. and our ideas may or not tally with the notions others have.

I think we cant either as individual or collective.. just some of us maybe.. the religious heads or some intellectuals..etc...cos they are the only who take it up as a full time job of  passing on this legacy...which is why it shouldnt require to either change most of these definations every now and then...

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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
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qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 30 March 2008 at 4:51pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by qwertyesque

we cocoon ourselves in domain of the right and then want our choices to make the statement which seems familiar... and then make a big talk about choices...!!!??? Right and wrong is not relative. it has to be absolute... which is what it has been... LOL

lol, sure.Tongue an "absolute" that keeps changing over time, as we keep discovering new things, at times reversing previous notions of "absolute right or wrong". like the world before galileo. they sure thought they knew which end was up, didnt they?Wink

but u're right about absolut vodka.LOL always the "right" stuff to take if u wanna get a buzz. if u can get the other fizz to add down rightWink

 

Again make up your mind.. is it morality, science or vodka you are talking about.. get off the latter two and then reply again...LOL

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