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Middle Class values... (Page 8)

SholaJoBhadkey IF-Dazzler
SholaJoBhadkey
SholaJoBhadkey

Joined: 23 August 2005
Posts: 2672

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 11:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by qwertyesque

same here Sholey, I have seen the middle class change. I dont have anyone I know who has reached depravity of the kind you saying... The point is getting first hand evidence is pretty tough... Like ok..I am a middle class guy and my cousin is having an extra marital affair.. or she is doing xyz... etc etc.. or my neighbor is doing that or. Just like I account man y extra marital affairs going on in my neighborhood.. yes that doesnt mean it may not exist but just that the statistic is not that astounding as if every 3rd person in Middle class is having a extra marital affair.. veri untrue.. Just like saying..Aishwarya had so many affairs before she married Abhi.. all we know is somebody was after her and "affairs" as viewed in the western world is not the same when we talk of afairs in our oriental world...Smile

Qwerty, I don't know about other metropolises, but you just have to drive around Delhi at night and you will see what I mean. It's not my cousin or my neighbour or my colleague's neice. It's the general populace Smile 

right and when most of the people say that it becomes an exception not a rule...Smile

shouldn't it be the other way round??? you have konfused me Embarrassed

qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
qwertyesque
qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006
Posts: 5953

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by TallyHo

Isnt it all relative...I mean the bachchans would be middle class compared to the ruler here in Abu dhabi...wont they? Big smile
Isnt it more like a economic class division.. wheres the value system there...

Middle class was always an economic creation. When and how it changed into a value-system is difficult to point out. In most parts of the world it's still based on economic factors. Ek hum hi hain jo values ke peechey padey huey hain LOL

 

here is the dictionary definition..

middle class

–noun
1. a class of people intermediate between the classes of higher and lower social rank or standing; the social, economic, cultural class, having approximately average status, income, education, tastes, and the like.
2. the class traditionally intermediate between the aristocratic class and the laboring class.

 

so its not really just economic differences..... aur yaha hum hi nahi sara jaha bhi hain,....LOL

SholaJoBhadkey IF-Dazzler
SholaJoBhadkey
SholaJoBhadkey

Joined: 23 August 2005
Posts: 2672

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by TallyHo

Isnt it all relative...I mean the bachchans would be middle class compared to the ruler here in Abu dhabi...wont they? Big smile
Isnt it more like a economic class division.. wheres the value system there...

Middle class was always an economic creation. When and how it changed into a value-system is difficult to point out. In most parts of the world it's still based on economic factors. Ek hum hi hain jo values ke peechey padey huey hain LOL

 

here is the dictionary definition..

middle class

–noun
1. a class of people intermediate between the classes of higher and lower social rank or standing; the social, economic, cultural class, having approximately average status, income, education, tastes, and the like.
2. the class traditionally intermediate between the aristocratic class and the laboring class.

 

so its not really just economic differences..... aur yaha hum hi nahi sara jaha bhi hain,....LOL

Social hierarchies, and their definitions, vary. There are many factors that can define the middle class of a society, such as money, behavior and heredity. In some countries, it is predominantly money that determines an individual's position in the social hierarchy. In others, other social factors may have as strong an influence. Such factors include education, professional or employment status, home ownership, or culture.

Connotations attached to the term also vary significantly between and within different countries. In the United States of America and Canada, usage is increasingly broad in scope, but almost always positive in intent.

History and evolution of the term

The middle class in this article refers to people neither at the top nor at the bottom of a social hierarchy. The term "middle class" has a long history and has had many, sometimes contradictory, meanings. It was once defined by exception as an intermediate social class between the nobility and the peasantry of Europe. While the nobility owned the countryside, and the peasantry worked the countryside, a new bourgeoisie (literally "town-dwellers") arose around mercantile functions in the city. This had the result that the middle class were often the wealthiest stratum of society (whereas today many take the term to refer by definition to the only-moderately wealthy.) In France, the middle classes helped to drive the French Revolution[citation needed].


Descending from this distinction, the phrase "middle class" came to be used in the United Kingdom during the Industrial Revolution to describe the professional and business class, as distinct from both the titled nobility and the landed gentry on the one hand and the agricultural and (increasingly) industrial labourers on the other.

Throughout the twentieth century, the titled nobility of the United Kingdom became less homogeneous. This was because of the increasingly eclectic background of new creations, most of which were politically driven by the so-called middle class, and the declining power of the House of Lords relative to the House of Commons after the Parliament Act 1911. So far as the hereditary element of class was concerned, the titled upper class became less numerous because of the near cessation of new hereditary creations after the Life Peerages Act 1958. This was coupled with the natural rate of extinction of existing hereditary titles and the near abolition of the hereditary element of the House of Lords at the end of the twentieth century. At this point, hereditary titles are in no way the key to being "upper class," although they do lend a distinctive panache within the upper class. By the beginning of the twenty-first century, Tim Hames was able to write in The Times (on 9 October 2006): "In a world in which David Cameron, whose mother-in-law is Lady Astor, and George Osborne, the son of a baronet, can claim to be "upper middle class" and that claim passes without much challenge, the upper class has plainly been reduced to such a rump that it now consists exclusively of the Royal Family."

Sare jahan se do countries kam kar do LOL

qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
qwertyesque
qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006
Posts: 5953

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:10pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by TallyHo

Isnt it all relative...I mean the bachchans would be middle class compared to the ruler here in Abu dhabi...wont they? Big smile
Isnt it more like a economic class division.. wheres the value system there...

Middle class was always an economic creation. When and how it changed into a value-system is difficult to point out. In most parts of the world it's still based on economic factors. Ek hum hi hain jo values ke peechey padey huey hain LOL

 

here is the dictionary definition..

middle class

–noun
1. a class of people intermediate between the classes of higher and lower social rank or standing; the social, economic, cultural class, having approximately average status, income, education, tastes, and the like.
2. the class traditionally intermediate between the aristocratic class and the laboring class.

 

so its not really just economic differences..... aur yaha hum hi nahi sara jaha bhi hain,....LOL

Social hierarchies, and their definitions, vary. There are many factors that can define the middle class of a society, such as money, behavior and heredity. In some countries, it is predominantly money that determines an individual's position in the social hierarchy. In others, other social factors may have as strong an influence. Such factors include education, professional or employment status, home ownership, or culture.

Connotations attached to the term also vary significantly between and within different countries. In the United States of America and Canada, usage is increasingly broad in scope, but almost always positive in intent.

History and evolution of the term

The middle class in this article refers to people neither at the top nor at the bottom of a social hierarchy. The term "middle class" has a long history and has had many, sometimes contradictory, meanings. It was once defined by exception as an intermediate social class between the nobility and the peasantry of Europe. While the nobility owned the countryside, and the peasantry worked the countryside, a new bourgeoisie (literally "town-dwellers") arose around mercantile functions in the city. This had the result that the middle class were often the wealthiest stratum of society (whereas today many take the term to refer by definition to the only-moderately wealthy.) In France, the middle classes helped to drive the French Revolution[citation needed].


Descending from this distinction, the phrase "middle class" came to be used in the United Kingdom during the Industrial Revolution to describe the professional and business class, as distinct from both the titled nobility and the landed gentry on the one hand and the agricultural and (increasingly) industrial labourers on the other.

Throughout the twentieth century, the titled nobility of the United Kingdom became less homogeneous. This was because of the increasingly eclectic background of new creations, most of which were politically driven by the so-called middle class, and the declining power of the House of Lords relative to the House of Commons after the Parliament Act 1911. So far as the hereditary element of class was concerned, the titled upper class became less numerous because of the near cessation of new hereditary creations after the Life Peerages Act 1958. This was coupled with the natural rate of extinction of existing hereditary titles and the near abolition of the hereditary element of the House of Lords at the end of the twentieth century. At this point, hereditary titles are in no way the key to being "upper class," although they do lend a distinctive panache within the upper class. By the beginning of the twenty-first century, Tim Hames was able to write in The Times (on 9 October 2006): "In a world in which David Cameron, whose mother-in-law is Lady Astor, and George Osborne, the son of a baronet, can claim to be "upper middle class" and that claim passes without much challenge, the upper class has plainly been reduced to such a rump that it now consists exclusively of the Royal Family."

Sare jahan se do countries kam kar do LOL

now that you got into etymology.. so what? This doesnt change that point, unless you think something specific which says that its economic subdivision only!!! where is it? all it mentions is social class or a social hierachy so a poor brahmin is supeirorior to a tribal origin millionaire MP isnt it which is anyways true!!!????LOL 



Edited by qwertyesque - 04 February 2008 at 12:12pm
SholaJoBhadkey IF-Dazzler
SholaJoBhadkey
SholaJoBhadkey

Joined: 23 August 2005
Posts: 2672

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:22pm | IP Logged
I got into the origin and history of the word to support my earlier statement that it began as an economic division, and somewhere along the way values became a factor and now we are debating on the premise that values are the only factor which prove whether one is middle class or not. Like economic parameters have changed over the years, so have the values associated with middle class; hence it would be a fallacy to say that all virtues are predominantly middle class values. Smile
qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
qwertyesque
qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006
Posts: 5953

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:27pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

I got into the origin and history of the word to support my earlier statement that it began as an economic division, and somewhere along the way values became a factor and now we are debating on the premise that values are the only factor which prove whether one is middle class or not. Like economic parameters have changed over the years, so have the values associated with middle class; hence it would be a fallacy to say that all virtues are predominantly middle class values. Smile

No the debate was never about values being the only measure, just that thats the only thing that has sustained the middle class.. I still think middle class comprises a mix of socio-economic factors..

Just cause Warren buffet is second in the forbes list doesnt make him middle classl wrt Bill gates etc...LOL

SholaJoBhadkey IF-Dazzler
SholaJoBhadkey
SholaJoBhadkey

Joined: 23 August 2005
Posts: 2672

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:35pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Buffie


My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth?

 

Isn't this all about values??? At some point we had some off-the-cuff remarks about economic divisions, but mostly we have been debating about people clinging to the middle-class tag simply because they want to present themselves as virtuous. No one has disputed Ash's wealth, but her morality has been questioned!

qwertyesque IF-Rockerz
qwertyesque
qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006
Posts: 5953

Posted: 04 February 2008 at 12:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by SholaJoBhadkey

Originally posted by Buffie


My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth?

 

Isn't this all about values??? At some point we had some off-the-cuff remarks about economic divisions, but mostly we have been debating about people clinging to the middle-class tag simply because they want to present themselves as virtuous. No one has disputed Ash's wealth, but her morality has been questioned!

on what grounds? just cos she is good looking!!?? and media has been linking her with some guys to let people have something to talk about!!??

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