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Gauri_3

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Posted: 02 February 2008 at 1:58pm | IP Logged
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lighthouse

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lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

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Posted: 02 February 2008 at 2:23pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by qwertyesque

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed....

qwerty, she may be living with her parents but she was in relationships even during then...with salman and then with vivek obroi.  she dumped vivek for abhi later....how middle class is that yaar??? 

 i think the point LH was trying to make there was that these celebrities claim to be having middle class values to please that large section of society that might fall for the pretense and foolishly think that may be a common thread still binds them to their fav star. 

well said.  some of the quotes i posted above also point to the same delimma.  even i am confused regarding what exactly are values.  i mean one cld be sati savitri character-wise but cld be a real nasty person and then someone else cld be promiscous but a nice person over all....which attribute of one's morality is more important when compared to others.....ufffff....now i am confused tooLOL

 You are right Gauri about my point there.. But I don't consider Ash's romances immoral . I mean she was pushing 30 and everyone in that age group has a right to have a partner and those who aren't in any relationship are mostly that way because they can't (for whatever reasons may be, too picky, not attractive enuf or too attractive) not because they want to remain virginal. She was lucky to get away from Salman when she did. I don't blame her for choosing Abhi over Vivek though.Wink



Edited by lighthouse - 02 February 2008 at 2:37pm

lighthouse

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lighthouse

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Posted: 02 February 2008 at 2:37pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed.... that  reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie  - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....Smile

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...LOL

 Absolutely true if you are born into rich family with old money but it is changing a lot now since more rich people are not born rich but come from middle class.  In the same way middle class is not the same anymore because they think like "rich" with access to same influence that rich has.

 Middle-class sometimes ends up having false sense of morality simply by moving up from being poor and becoming middle class.

Gauri_3

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qwertyesque

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Posted: 02 February 2008 at 6:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by qwertyesque

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed....

qwerty, she may be living with her parents but she was in relationships even during then...with salman and then with vivek obroi.  she dumped vivek for abhi later....how middle class is that yaar??? come on all this media generated hype.. .i dont believe there was any "relation" there except for all the stories coming.. out.. such gals wont say they are conservative "living with parents" etc.. since they are chalu enough to switch guys.. which is again a paradox...

 i think the point LH was trying to make there was that these celebrities claim to be having middle class values to please that large section of society that might fall for the pretense and foolishly think that may be a common thread still binds them to their fav star. 

just living with ur parents but scr**ing around at the same time is not middle class values for sure but that is what some of the middle class gals are actually doing now a days.  the middle class is a big set of people and i dont say there will be some deviances.. but thats not the standard...now, i'm not judging them at all.......all i'm saying is why aish needs to prove she has her middle class values intact on an american show???  because she is living the middle class life-style... just cos she is popular does she have to be accused of sleeping around... man thats too much...what was the need there???  does she mean all the girls who live in another city or in a hostel due to their work or whatever reason do not have middle class values???  others may be living on their own but still guarding their "honor" and that would still be an example of keeping one's middle class values intact.Smile...all i am saying is middle class is the only one which has strong reasons to sustain the values...Smile

 

that  reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie  - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...

totally with u on this point.  this is so true...not going the whole nine yards even if the temptation is there and is way too strong.  some thing somewhere holds u back no matter how bad u wanna just act on ur urges at times....that surely havs something to do with the way u r brought upSmile

 

this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....Smile

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...LOL

well said.  some of the quotes i posted above also point to the same delimma.  even i am confused regarding what exactly are values.  i mean one cld be sati savitri character-wise but cld be a real nasty person and then someone else cld be promiscous but a nice person over all....which attribute of one's morality is more important when compared to others.....ufffff....now i am confused tooLOLthanks...

IdeaQueen

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Posted: 03 February 2008 at 7:08am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Buffie

My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth?
 

"Middle Class" is the majority of the population in a developing country. Middle Class has its impact and gets impacted by every aspect such as Political situation, Economic situation etal. Their direct and indirect contibution to a nation is major incomparison to low class or higher class.Regarding the aspect of values, its the Middle class who carry forward the system traditions of a society. Any civilization or any country is estimated on the basis of the living conditions of Middle class people at that period of time. There is no much difference in the higher class and lower class at any point of time.

Such is the importance of Middle classTongue. Politicians are the best people to understand the movements of middle class people.

According to me, the people can be  classiifed into

Lower Lower Class

Lower Class

***********************

Lower Middle Class(LMC)

Middle Middle Class(MMC)

Higher Middle Class(HMC)

***************************

High Class

Higher High Class

With the increase in MNC's somany people are upgrading from MMC to HMC. This upgradition does'nt make them Higher class. The band gap between Higher Middle class and high class is extreme, it takes lot of time for people to reach the higher class level from the middle class category. Just having some crore money or a Skoda car does'nt make a person high class.The point we need to understand is the standard of middle class increased immensely. There is nothing wrong in Deepika being called a girl with Middle class values.Smile

Cheers,

Mythili

 

nitasuni

Senior Member

nitasuni

Joined: 08 August 2007

Posts: 850

Posted: 03 February 2008 at 8:42am | IP Logged
[QUOTE=mythili_Kiran]

"Middle Class" is the majority of the population in a developing country. Middle Class has its impact and gets impacted by every aspect such as Political situation, Economic situation etal. Their direct and indirect contibution to a nation is major incomparison to low class or higher class.Regarding the aspect of values, its the Middle class who carry forward the system traditions of a society. Any civilization or any country is estimated on the basis of the living conditions of Middle class people at that period of time. There is no much difference in the higher class and lower class at any point of time.

Such is the importance of Middle classTongue. Politicians are the best people to understand the movements of middle class people.

According to me, the people can be  classiifed into

Lower Lower Class

Lower Class

***********************

Lower Middle Class(LMC)

Middle Middle Class(MMC)

Higher Middle Class(HMC)

***************************

High Class

Higher High Class

With the increase in MNC's somany people are upgrading from MMC to HMC. This upgradition does'nt make them Higher class. The band gap between Higher Middle class and high class is extreme, it takes lot of time for people to reach the higher class level from the middle class category. Just having some crore money or a Skoda car does'nt make a person high class.The point we need to understand is the standard of middle class increased immensely. There is nothing wrong in Deepika being called a girl with Middle class values.Smile

Cheers,

Mythili

[/QUOTE)

Thank you for expressing this excellently. Your classification of people is correct.  the difference between high class and upper middile class is huge.

Now  the upper middle class and middile middle class are imitating the life style of high class and some point they lost all   the essential virtue of life.  Extra marital affairs ( now it  is  increasing among upper  middle calss and working women) and leaving partners for silly reasons are prevalent. Now the younger girls are thinking that liberation  of womanhood is partying, drinking,smoking and leaving or exchanging partners.  Now this is modern and high  class thinking and living.  Boost of IT give opportunity to our youngsters along with money but middle class values are losing   But not yet lost fully.

lighthouse

IF-Dazzler

lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 03 February 2008 at 9:43am | IP Logged

Saw Baazigar last night and found this "high society" tea scene very funny. This middleclass guy comes with his son to Kajol's place for possible mariage proposal for Shilpa shetty. Tea is served and the son notices it is just plain hot water without tea leaves , and his dad says - beta this is how rich drink their tea..LOL so pi ley..

 

 

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