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chatbuster

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Posted: 31 January 2008 at 12:16am | IP Logged
Originally posted by Buffie

I'm not generalizing, neither am I advocating and endorsing any style/way of life...How does having the so called "middle class" values make one any superior a person and why do some people take such furious pride in being "middle class"Confused

how do middle class values make one any superior? same as how having good looks, brains, money, talent, personality makes someone superior! perhaps more so. provided any of it ever counts.

all else equal, most guys want their women to be morally upright, faithful etc. Women pretty much want the same thing too. Middle-class values in short.

that's on one level. on another, there's perhaps the perception/ reality that middle class values helps one lead a more natural/ beautiful life. so there is intrinsic value to it all too. ultimately yes, we can always say that nothing matters because we'll all be gone. but meanwhile, given the premium put on these things by "market" forces, people like to show off those "values" possessions just the same as they would any other commodity that's in high demand and in short supply.TongueSmile



Edited by chatbuster - 31 January 2008 at 12:18am

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lighthouse

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Posted: 31 January 2008 at 11:17am | IP Logged

Originally posted by Buffie

Thanks folks for the replies Big smile Yea, its nice to be back

No,I wasn't referring to the Kekta soaps,as a matter of fact I've never watched a K soap (except maybe for the odd three or four episodes of certain K soaps)...

I was referring to the celebrities priding themselves on being "middle class"...People say Ash is a "middle class girl with middle class values"...Recently, at some award function, the lovely Deepika Padukone too said something on the lines that she is a "simple middle class girl"...Now I don't understand what is "simple" about Deeps, she is a superstar and a celebrity and she should take pride about that...And if her recent outings with hi-profile men as Ranbir, Yuvraj Singh etc is any indication, she's having a laugh...Nothing wrong about that, but what I fail to grasp is the "middle class" tag she clings on to...Its almost as though the tag acts as a shield, sumthing to hide behind....

Ash is again one of the biggest celebrities of India, and arguably the most sought after and renown female face of India even internationally...She's loaded, hobnobs with the creme de la creme and certainly belongs to the upper echelons of the society post nuptials... 
 I think by clinging to middle class tag they are just saying that they are more like Madhuri or Kajol (who seemingly lead decent lives and haven't been romantically linked with many) then say like Rakhi Sawant or Mallika sherawat. This is because as you have said before their lifestyle is viewed thru "middle class prism" depicting high flying partying lifestyle which is not the impression they want to give out.

 Not all affluent and influencial people cling to middle class tag to assert moral values they may or may not have but it appears that most celebrities or people in glamour business tend to do it as their flamboyant lifestyle and multiple romantic linkups and breakups are publicly scrutinized. Bipasha and Sush's names come to mind when one thinks of a modern celebrity who is comfortable with their glamour status and livein relatiosnships.  

 
My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth?

 Unfortunately you are so right in that assesment Buffie. It is a case of  haves and have not and the middle class perception is that of losing something of value in exchange for moving up.Middle class has a chip on their shoulder about having exclusive rights on the moral high ground and one can sense a tiny bit of jealousy towards upwardly mobile and their achievements. Yet at the same time the celebrity types have to gladden the masses who keep them in business.

 
@ LT....True, modern Indian middle class is educated, pragmatic, techno-savvy...But uninhibited??..I don't think so..There is still alot of diffidence,alot of holding back...Most middle class girls are still fettered by the shackles of societal perception and certain amount of parental pressure...Admittedly, there is much more liberty in matters of attire and are increasingly left to their own devices by the family, but total freedom is still a dream that may perhaps be realized only in the distant future Smile  

 True.  But compared to the middle class youth of 2 generations ago , a lot has changed as you say and the education, working environment and financial freedom they have makes them less answerable to family and society. Middle class girls have a say in who they marry, can go out with boys openly in a relationship etc.  Also used to be showbiz was not considered a career choice for girls from decent families but now we see middle class parents effectively rushing to get their kids into modelling, acting, beauty pagents, talent reality shows etc.

 Nice to hear from you again Buffie. Big smile

qwertyesque

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Posted: 31 January 2008 at 5:53pm | IP Logged
  1. Originally posted by Buffie

    Thanks folks for the replies Big smile Yea, its nice to be back

    No,I wasn't referring to the Kekta soaps,as a matter of fact I've never watched a K soap (except maybe for the odd three or four episodes of certain K soaps)...

    I was referring to the celebrities priding themselves on being "middle class"...People say Ash is a "middle class girl with middle class values"...Recently, at some award function, the lovely Deepika Padukone too said something on the lines that she is a "simple middle class girl"...Now I don't understand what is "simple" about Deeps, she is a superstar and a celebrity and she should take pride about that...And if her recent outings with hi-profile men as Ranbir, Yuvraj Singh etc is any indication, she's having a laugh...Nothing wrong about that, but what I fail to grasp is the "middle class" tag she clings on to...Its almost as though the tag acts as a shield, sumthing to hide behind....

    Ash is again one of the biggest celebrities of India, and arguably the most sought after and renown female face of India even internationally...She's loaded, hobnobs with the creme de la creme and certainly belongs to the upper echelons of the society post nuptials...

    My question is, why do they claim to be "middle class" even when they so clearly have left the recesses of middle class society long since...Does being "middle class" offer the moral highground, does being middle class automatically connote that one has "values, respect" etc etc ...Does being middle class make these ppl any better than say someone who was a celebrity kid and was born with the proverbial silver spoon in the mouth? You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....

    @ LT....True, modern Indian middle class is educated, pragmatic, techno-savvy...But uninhibited??..I don't think so..There is still alot of diffidence,alot of holding back...Most middle class girls are still fettered by the shackles of societal perception and certain amount of parental pressure..u can call them shackles or abiding by the tradition and values..Smile.Admittedly, there is much more liberty in matters of attire and are increasingly left to their own devices by the family, but total freedom is still a dream that may perhaps be realized only in the distant future Smile

lighthouse

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Posted: 31 January 2008 at 9:23pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

 You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....

 You are right in saying the middles class is better suited to sustain values but in recent years, education, equal opportunities, internet etc have put all classes on level plain field so to speak. Therefore todays middle class is different from the older bourgeoisie, which was tolerant and structured in following values since they lived in middle class financialy and culturerarly. Todays middle class can own stock in Yahoo or Google and still maintain a middle class lifestyle.

 I think in todays age , it is the lifestyle choice one makes not how much money they make defines which class they belong to. Celebs live their lives under microscope which may seem bizzare some times as compared to nomal lifestyle most live and hence need to cling to tags to appear like most ie middle class... jmho



Edited by lighthouse - 31 January 2008 at 9:36pm

Gauri_3

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IdeaQueen

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Posted: 01 February 2008 at 9:45pm | IP Logged
Welome back Buffie Smile

qwertyesque

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Posted: 01 February 2008 at 10:04pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by qwertyesque

 You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....

 You are right in saying the middles class is better suited to sustain values but in recent years, education, equal opportunities, internet etc have put all classes on level plain field so to speak. Therefore todays middle class is different from the older bourgeoisie, which was tolerant and structured in following values since they lived in middle class financialy and culturerarly. Todays middle class can own stock in Yahoo or Google and still maintain a middle class lifestyle.

 I think in todays age , it is the lifestyle choice one makes not how much money they make defines which class they belong to. Celebs live their lives under microscope which may seem bizzare some times as compared to nomal lifestyle most live and hence need to cling to tags to appear like most ie middle class... jmho

You are right to an extent but I dont think that the change would be big enough to wipe out the core elements. Most middle class have had to break their value system to make it big.. but today it may not be so...An ash could say it to the world in Lettermans show that she lives with her parents..without being bashful about it... many surely would be embarrassed.... that  reminds me of the mena suvari's character in American beauty...and her interaction with kevin spacey in the end of the movie  - people somehow stop somewhere and the things that stop them is some conception of goodness.. this is ingrained in the middle class..and which is what pulls them back even when they are on path of vices...this is difficult if you are born rich since everybody at some point realizes the futility of moral bindings...which is why though morality can persist in some rich people's lives... others can just tip over all these values corroborating its weakness...without anything convincing them otherwise.....Smile

Whew... I thought I am convinced and now, may be i am confused...LOL

nitasuni

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Posted: 02 February 2008 at 9:00am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

  1.  You need to think what would sustain values.. The poor is trying to make both ends meet so they are going to use any means.. the rich have too much of money to throw around....so they dont need to pay attention to it also they dont have much at stake... so the only people who have a good chance of following and retaining values is the middle class by and large.. there are exceptions everywhere....but middle class generally is responsible for value retention in society.....

           I agree with you, sir. you said it nicely.

           Yes,  middle class kids now participating in reality shows, parents encougraging girls to performing in stage programmes, filims etc.  But still middle class people retaining the values, that do not seen in high class or lower class.             

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