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lashy

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lashy

Joined: 14 February 2005

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Posted: 15 January 2008 at 3:41pm | IP Logged

who is the greatest king in Indian history and why?

Chandragupta Maurya

Ashoka

Samudragupta Gupta

Harshavardhana

Chattrapathi Shivaji

Maharana Pratap

Prithviraj Chauhan

sorry if i have left someone out... you can still add them on to continue



Edited by lashy - 19 January 2008 at 3:44am

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minnie2308

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minnie2308

Joined: 03 October 2007

Posts: 1921

Posted: 17 January 2008 at 1:38am | IP Logged

 

Firstly, I would deviate from the topic and put up a case for PRC where I believe him to be just as brave if not braver than any
other Indian king......
I have borrowed by my own excerpt from an old debate topic by Mansi"Was PRC the bravest king", where I was the last debater.

I'll take up from the names as pointed above by Lashy ,
Among the graet Mauryas it is very difficult to select one -Chandragupta and Asoka deserve an equal applause.  

Among the Guptas(320 to 550 CE) most worthy of mention would be Samudragupta, is considered the Napoleon of India.

Though extremely brave and valiant, Maharana Pratap, spent his life trying to recapture a lost world. Though his missions against Akbar and some victories are worth noting, not much is mentioned about his administration and love for the masses. So I with due respect would not take him into this league.

One of the most able administrators , ruler and warrior in India was undoubtedly Chhatrapati Shivaji(1627-1680) the founder of Maratha empire . At the age of 20, he took out his very first military attack and captured the Torna Fort of the kingdom of Bijapur .

Another name worth the mention is Akbar who again unified a major part of India and ruled with firm and just hands.

Unlike many others who preferred to keep PRC out of this league, I still keep him here for various reasons like the following:

1.     None of the mentioned warriors apart from PRC won battles at the age of 13-14. Infact his career was actually over at the age most of the others were starting it. So I'd give him a benefit of doubt that had he lived longer, he would have expanded his kingdom just as much as others if not more.
2.     As mentioned by some that he was lucky to have someone like Chander Bardai to write about his feats, I'd mention the chinese scholars who visited during Asoka's and Gupta periods to write about their accomplishments. So even those emperors received their fair share of limelights and advertisements.

Yes he lost, the last battle of his life. But remember that was the only battle he lost!!
Unlike others I wouldn't blame his love-life being the cause of his downfall.
The reason for his downfall could have been his over-emotional nature. That's why I don't place him as high as the politically smart Shivaji or Asoka. But he is definitely in the league……. And not far behind.Clap

On a more personal front, I feel comparing PRC to Asoka or Shivaji or Akbar would be like comparing 20-20 cricket with a test match 

 



Edited by lashy - 19 January 2008 at 3:22am

ketaki_ry

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ketaki_ry

Joined: 04 June 2005

Posts: 6509

Posted: 17 January 2008 at 11:51am | IP Logged

Originally posted by minnie2308

Unlike many others who preferred to keep PRC out of this league, I still keep him here for various reasons like the following:

1.     None of the mentioned warriors apart from PRC won battles at the age of 13-14. Infact his career was actually over at the age most of the others were starting it. So I'd give him a benefit of doubt that had he lived longer, he would have expanded his kingdom just as much as others if not more.


2.     As mentioned by some that he was lucky to have someone like Chander Bardai to write about his feats, I'd mention the chinese scholars who visited during Asoka's and Gupta periods to write about their accomplishments. So even those emperors received their fair share of limelights and advertisements.

Yes he lost, the last battle of his life. But remember that was the only battle he lost!!
Unlike others I wouldn't blame his love-life being the cause of his downfall.
The reason for his downfall could have been his over-emotional nature. That's why I don't place him as high as the politically smart Shivaji or Asoka. But he is definitely in the league……. And not far behind.Clap

On a more personal front, I feel comparing PRC to Asoka or Shivaji or Akbar would be like comparing 20-20 cricket with a test match 

hmm... I will have to disagree with you here minnie, I really don't think prc was as great as the other able kings you have mentioned above. why? here go my reasons..

1. So prc won the battles when he was 13-14 u say? acording to what source? - pr raso - which is highly exaggerated and almost poetic than telling facts.. or sagars version? I m sure u r not following sagars version... coz we all know where that comes from. Smile ..  and about Raso, if u look at the other things mentioned in raso, u will probably get the idea of its acuracy.. try doing that.. I know i did..Smile and it sorta changed my beleives abt prc.. (and i m not sure abt this - but i think raso only mentions how he killed a lion when he was 14 or something.. )

And mind you there are other brave kings who started their journey at very young age too. Shivaji for example, started ruling when he was very young.. and started aquiring forts when he was abt 14 or 16 not 20... (i can provide u dates if u want.)

Now Chandragupt Maurya,  this guy was crowned emperor of India when he was only 20. and he was fighting way earlier than that.. so u can imagine..

These are the kings who had started planning their 'empires' when they were very very young and executed it properly... bunch of battles hardly help..

Other great kings like Samudragupta, who decended to the throne were concentraiting on learning how to handle a kingdom successfully at that age.

2. You say prc didn't live long so its unfair to compare them with these great rulers who did..

emm.. sorry to be harsh, but who's fault is this? - When you are a king, your First priority is to keep yourself alive - for the kingdom's sake. Its not like todays wars.. King's murder destroys the whole kingdom, people can suffer like anything! (which they did..after prc.. ) 

Hence, for a king to be, this was the 1st thing to learn - how to keep yourself alive, from enemies and traitors inside as well.. Chandragupta, shivaji are great examples of this! They started the kindom. They had live. Beleive me, this was their 1st priority. Other decended kings like Guptas, Ashok etc were doing serious studies on how to mentain a kindom while prc was probably on his fighting sprees at age of 14-15.. (kahajane ki khoj and whats not...if u beleive it , that is..! )

Anyways, prc was killed in a battle when he was 26, i guess.... I do feel sorry but this is the main reason I do not consider him that great.  Yes, mistakes happen, but when you look at amount of painstaking efforts kings like chandragupta, shivaji, All Guptas took on their own and the kingdoms/empire's security, prc's effort seem to be amazingly feeble .. actually careless..  acording to the same raso and accounts.

I am saying this b'coz there are proofs of these - just to give you examples:  

- At time when Shivaji started his career, the whole india was under 2 mejor muslim rulers and he had nothing.. He knew very well that he and his fighters had to survive at any cost to create and secure the kingdom. hence he invented the tactics  which invoved playing politics or doing max damage and running away.. fighting like a fairytale prince till dying was just not practical. LOL 

- A whole big book was written on Raajniti by Chanakya about how a king should take protect himself and the kingdom from inside and outside enemies.. and the details still make me go - Shocked. This techniques are still used by indian gov today...  and The guy who wrote this was Chandragupta's mentor!

- The Guptas - All Gupta potitics was based on a book written by chanakya's student (kamandakiya) and was mostly based on chanakya neeti. and they applied it very well! Smile

3. About the advertisements  - The greek ppl were not hired by the Mauryas and Guptas to write about them. They were tourists, chinese monks who just wrote what they saw. hence its well documented. but this can hardly be compared with a court poet writing a poetry on a friend and a king who he works for!  ... try reading pr raso and you yourself will realise how accurate are chaand's facts...LOL

Sory if I m came out harsh .. I do not think prc was a bad king. But he definitly wasnt responsible one.. and I cant even think abt placing him in a league with other ones mentioned earlier ..

coz I think looking at prc and other kings' acheivements with proportional to how much they lived would be like comparing scores of 30 runs in 17 balls out and 100 runs in 115 balls not out!

Its just that, I cannot symphatise his death/defeat, ignore his lack of care and put him in league with kings who took great deal of care just to survive..there was a reason why they did it!! they werent idiots afterall..

just my opinions .. didn't mean to offend anyone...Smile

 



Edited by ketaki_ry - 17 January 2008 at 2:22pm

anuradhasharma

Goldie

anuradhasharma

Joined: 02 October 2006

Posts: 1505

Posted: 17 January 2008 at 10:07pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by ketaki_ry

Originally posted by minnie2308

Unlike many others who preferred to keep PRC out of this league, I still keep him here for various reasons like the following:

1.     None of the mentioned warriors apart from PRC won battles at the age of 13-14. Infact his career was actually over at the age most of the others were starting it. So I'd give him a benefit of doubt that had he lived longer, he would have expanded his kingdom just as much as others if not more.


2.     As mentioned by some that he was lucky to have someone like Chander Bardai to write about his feats, I'd mention the chinese scholars who visited during Asoka's and Gupta periods to write about their accomplishments. So even those emperors received their fair share of limelights and advertisements.

Yes he lost, the last battle of his life. But remember that was the only battle he lost!!
Unlike others I wouldn't blame his love-life being the cause of his downfall.
The reason for his downfall could have been his over-emotional nature. That's why I don't place him as high as the politically smart Shivaji or Asoka. But he is definitely in the league……. And not far behind.Clap

On a more personal front, I feel comparing PRC to Asoka or Shivaji or Akbar would be like comparing 20-20 cricket with a test match 

hmm... I will have to disagree with you here minnie, I really don't think prc was as great as the other able kings you have mentioned above. why? here go my reasons..

1. So prc won the battles when he was 13-14 u say? acording to what source? - pr raso - which is highly exaggerated and almost poetic than telling facts.. or sagars version? I m sure u r not following sagars version... coz we all know where that comes from. Smile ..  and about Raso, if u look at the other things mentioned in raso, u will probably get the idea of its acuracy.. try doing that.. I know i did..Smile and it sorta changed my beleives abt prc.. (and i m not sure abt this - but i think raso only mentions how he killed a lion when he was 14 or something.. )

And mind you there are other brave kings who started their journey at very young age too. Shivaji for example, started ruling when he was very young.. and started aquiring forts when he was abt 14 or 16 not 20... (i can provide u dates if u want.)

Now Chandragupt Maurya,  this guy was crowned emperor of India when he was only 20. and he was fighting way earlier than that.. so u can imagine..

These are the kings who had started planning their 'empires' when they were very very young and executed it properly... bunch of battles hardly help..

Other great kings like Samudragupta, who decended to the throne were concentraiting on learning how to handle a kingdom successfully at that age.

2. You say prc didn't live long so its unfair to compare them with these great rulers who did..

emm.. sorry to be harsh, but who's fault is this? - When you are a king, your First priority is to keep yourself alive - for the kingdom's sake. Its not like todays wars.. King's murder destroys the whole kingdom, people can suffer like anything! (which they did..after prc.. ) 

Hence, for a king to be, this was the 1st thing to learn - how to keep yourself alive, from enemies and traitors inside as well.. Chandragupta, shivaji are great examples of this! They started the kindom. They had live. Beleive me, this was their 1st priority. Other decended kings like Guptas, Ashok etc were doing serious studies on how to mentain a kindom while prc was probably on his fighting sprees at age of 14-15.. (kahajane ki khoj and whats not...if u beleive it , that is..! )

Anyways, prc was killed in a battle when he was 26, i guess.... I do feel sorry but this is the main reason I do not consider him that great.  Yes, mistakes happen, but when you look at amount of painstaking efforts kings like chandragupta, shivaji, All Guptas took on their own and the kingdoms/empire's security, prc's effort seem to be amazingly feeble .. actually careless..  acording to the same raso and accounts.

I am saying this b'coz there are proofs of these - just to give you examples:  

- At time when Shivaji started his career, the whole india was under 2 mejor muslim rulers and he had nothing.. He knew very well that he and his fighters had to survive at any cost to create and secure the kingdom. hence he invented the tactics  which invoved playing politics or doing max damage and running away.. fighting like a fairytale prince till dying was just not practical. LOL 

- A whole big book was written on Raajniti by Chanakya about how a king should take protect himself and the kingdom from inside and outside enemies.. and the details still make me go - Shocked. This techniques are still used by indian gov today...  and The guy who wrote this was Chandragupta's mentor!

- The Guptas - All Gupta potitics was based on a book written by chanakya's student (kamandakiya) and was mostly based on chanakya neeti. and they applied it very well! Smile

3. About the advertisements  - The greek ppl were not hired by the Mauryas and Guptas to write about them. They were tourists, chinese monks who just wrote what they saw. hence its well documented. but this can hardly be compared with a court poet writing a poetry on a friend and a king who he works for!  ... try reading pr raso and you yourself will realise how accurate are chaand's facts...LOL

Sory if I m came out harsh .. I do not think prc was a bad king. But he definitly wasnt responsible one.. and I cant even think abt placing him in a league with other ones mentioned earlier ..

coz I think looking at prc and other kings' acheivements with proportional to how much they lived would be like comparing scores of 30 runs in 17 balls out and 100 runs in 115 balls not out!

Its just that, I cannot symphatise his death/defeat, ignore his lack of care and put him in league with kings who took great deal of care just to survive..there was a reason why they did it!! they werent idiots afterall..

just my opinions .. didn't mean to offend anyone...Smile

 

ClapClap....u spoke my mind dear!......Clap

welcome back ket....Hug......missed u sooo much!

 

munyr123

IF-Dazzler

munyr123

Joined: 28 December 2007

Posts: 2652

Posted: 18 January 2008 at 1:31am | IP Logged
Originally posted by ketaki_ry

Originally posted by minnie2308

Unlike many others who preferred to keep PRC out of this league, I still keep him here for various reasons like the following:

1.     None of the mentioned warriors apart from PRC won battles at the age of 13-14. Infact his career was actually over at the age most of the others were starting it. So I'd give him a benefit of doubt that had he lived longer, he would have expanded his kingdom just as much as others if not more.


2.     As mentioned by some that he was lucky to have someone like Chander Bardai to write about his feats, I'd mention the chinese scholars who visited during Asoka's and Gupta periods to write about their accomplishments. So even those emperors received their fair share of limelights and advertisements.

Yes he lost, the last battle of his life. But remember that was the only battle he lost!!
Unlike others I wouldn't blame his love-life being the cause of his downfall.
The reason for his downfall could have been his over-emotional nature. That's why I don't place him as high as the politically smart Shivaji or Asoka. But he is definitely in the league……. And not far behind.Clap

On a more personal front, I feel comparing PRC to Asoka or Shivaji or Akbar would be like comparing 20-20 cricket with a test match 

hmm... I will have to disagree with you here minnie, I really don't think prc was as great as the other able kings you have mentioned above. why? here go my reasons..

1. So prc won the battles when he was 13-14 u say? acording to what source? - pr raso - which is highly exaggerated and almost poetic than telling facts.. or sagars version? I m sure u r not following sagars version... coz we all know where that comes from. Smile ..  and about Raso, if u look at the other things mentioned in raso, u will probably get the idea of its acuracy.. try doing that.. I know i did..Smile and it sorta changed my beleives abt prc.. (and i m not sure abt this - but i think raso only mentions how he killed a lion when he was 14 or something.. )

And mind you there are other brave kings who started their journey at very young age too. Shivaji for example, started ruling when he was very young.. and started aquiring forts when he was abt 14 or 16 not 20... (i can provide u dates if u want.)

Now Chandragupt Maurya,  this guy was crowned emperor of India when he was only 20. and he was fighting way earlier than that.. so u can imagine..

These are the kings who had started planning their 'empires' when they were very very young and executed it properly... bunch of battles hardly help..

Other great kings like Samudragupta, who decended to the throne were concentraiting on learning how to handle a kingdom successfully at that age.

2. You say prc didn't live long so its unfair to compare them with these great rulers who did..

emm.. sorry to be harsh, but who's fault is this? - When you are a king, your First priority is to keep yourself alive - for the kingdom's sake. Its not like todays wars.. King's murder destroys the whole kingdom, people can suffer like anything! (which they did..after prc.. ) 

Hence, for a king to be, this was the 1st thing to learn - how to keep yourself alive, from enemies and traitors inside as well.. Chandragupta, shivaji are great examples of this! They started the kindom. They had live. Beleive me, this was their 1st priority. Other decended kings like Guptas, Ashok etc were doing serious studies on how to mentain a kindom while prc was probably on his fighting sprees at age of 14-15.. (kahajane ki khoj and whats not...if u beleive it , that is..! )

Anyways, prc was killed in a battle when he was 26, i guess.... I do feel sorry but this is the main reason I do not consider him that great.  Yes, mistakes happen, but when you look at amount of painstaking efforts kings like chandragupta, shivaji, All Guptas took on their own and the kingdoms/empire's security, prc's effort seem to be amazingly feeble .. actually careless..  acording to the same raso and accounts.

I am saying this b'coz there are proofs of these - just to give you examples:  

- At time when Shivaji started his career, the whole india was under 2 mejor muslim rulers and he had nothing.. He knew very well that he and his fighters had to survive at any cost to create and secure the kingdom. hence he invented the tactics  which invoved playing politics or doing max damage and running away.. fighting like a fairytale prince till dying was just not practical. LOL 

- A whole big book was written on Raajniti by Chanakya about how a king should take protect himself and the kingdom from inside and outside enemies.. and the details still make me go - Shocked. This techniques are still used by indian gov today...  and The guy who wrote this was Chandragupta's mentor!

- The Guptas - All Gupta potitics was based on a book written by chanakya's student (kamandakiya) and was mostly based on chanakya neeti. and they applied it very well! Smile

3. About the advertisements  - The greek ppl were not hired by the Mauryas and Guptas to write about them. They were tourists, chinese monks who just wrote what they saw. hence its well documented. but this can hardly be compared with a court poet writing a poetry on a friend and a king who he works for!  ... try reading pr raso and you yourself will realise how accurate are chaand's facts...LOL

Sory if I m came out harsh .. I do not think prc was a bad king. But he definitly wasnt responsible one.. and I cant even think abt placing him in a league with other ones mentioned earlier ..

coz I think looking at prc and other kings' acheivements with proportional to how much they lived would be like comparing scores of 30 runs in 17 balls out and 100 runs in 115 balls not out!

Its just that, I cannot symphatise his death/defeat, ignore his lack of care and put him in league with kings who took great deal of care just to survive..there was a reason why they did it!! they werent idiots afterall..

just my opinions .. didn't mean to offend anyone...Smile

 



Its not offending to me but I dont agree with you. At the young age he killed the powerful emperor Bhimdev.Besides this, he had won many battles. Being a king he had always shown care to his people and not only people but forgiven his enemies too. The mistake which someshwar chouhan made, same Prithvi repeated by trusting Ghori...

ketaki_ry

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ketaki_ry

Joined: 04 June 2005

Posts: 6509

Posted: 18 January 2008 at 4:24am | IP Logged

Originally posted by munyr123


Its not offending to me but I dont agree with you. At the young age he killed the powerful emperor Bhimdev.Besides this, he had won many battles. Being a king he had always shown care to his people and not only people but forgiven his enemies too. The mistake which someshwar chouhan made, same Prithvi repeated by trusting Ghori...

yup, and that shows his lack of skills as a king! a king shd be extreamly alert, shd hv a great net of spies to inform whats going on.. and sould be able to judge ppl and enemies.. 

I m not saying he was a bad/ cruel/insensitive king. he was a very good person.Smile  but could take care of his kingdom properly..when he was suuposed to be handling spies and planning future defences against ghori, he was busy with sanyo. As laks mentioned - Ghori attacked at night is hardly an excuse.. 

 

lakshmim_84

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lakshmim_84

Joined: 03 January 2007

Posts: 6043

Posted: 18 January 2008 at 5:03am | IP Logged

 

Originally posted by ketaki_ry

A whole big book was written on Raajniti by Chanakya about how a king should take protect himself and the kingdom from inside and outside enemies.. and the details still make me go - ShockedThis techniques are still used by indian gov today...  and The guy who wrote this was Chandragupta's mentor!

seriously ket, that book is so so powerful tool. u'll be surprised with the tips that he gives.

just look at these sentences from that book(i felt these were extremely relevent for prc)

A debt should be paid off till the last penny, and an enemy should be destroyed without a trace.

A person should not be too honest. Just as straight trees are chopped-down first, honest people are taken advantage of first.

A woman is four times as shy, six times as brave and eight times as lusty as a man.

Before you start any work, always ask yourself three questions — Why am I doing it? What the results might be? And Will I be successful? Only when you think deeply and find satisfactory answers to these questions, go ahead.

Even if a snake is not poisonous, it should pretend to be.

Never go on a long journey alone.

The biggest guru-mantra is: Never share your secrets with anybody. It will destroy you

The world's biggest power is the youth and beauty of a woman.(after this quote he says.. women form better spies.)

The best one is - Send ur spies to the neighbouring country n create problems there.. so that the king of that country is always involved in solving those problems. Then he will never have time to attack ur country.



Edited by lashy - 19 January 2008 at 3:27am

anuradhasharma

Goldie

anuradhasharma

Joined: 02 October 2006

Posts: 1505

Posted: 18 January 2008 at 5:23am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lakshmim_84

[

A woman is four times as shy, six times as brave and eight times as lusty as a man. ROFL....trueeee......LOL

The biggest guru-mantra is: Never share your secrets with anybody. It will destroy you Clap...yea.....Clap

The world's biggest power is the youth and beauty of a woman.(after this quote he says.. women form better spies.) ...ROFL.again.....yeha....women can be better spies....

he was a great politician!......ClapClap...hatts off

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