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nitasuni

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nitasuni

Joined: 08 August 2007

Posts: 850

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:15am | IP Logged

Originally posted by #1EijazFan

Come to think of it, a lot of my friends are from south India and they too say they HAVE to wear long clothes..obviously nowhere near strict as these countries cos they dont have 2 cover their whole bodies but i think mini skirts is not allowed.
its frowned upon down south apparentlyConfused
and this too makes their trip to india a dreaded one..but all im gonna say is go to delhi and look at the girls there-you will be happy to see some of them in mini skirts if anything! lol OuchLOL
Rules should be fair 1's..not 1 forced by govt. according to religion or 'just for fun'...

   Don't worry, now a days the  dress code of elite/and upper middiole class  people will make the westerners humble, the noodle strap and less will make the veiwers shy to look again.  I may be backward but  some times I think how the parents could exhibit their teenagers in this skimpy cloths(I am a mother of two teenagers).  I am not against modest western dress but certainly against wearing skimpy dress in villages, But also against forced dress code.

We can wear it where all are wearing the same dress(skimpy) there are families who came to villages in modest dressess.Dress is  only a part of culture, not culture itself.

Delhi is the Crime Capital of India (recent news in  Malayalam daily Mathrubhoomi). 

 

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nitasuni

Senior Member

nitasuni

Joined: 08 August 2007

Posts: 850

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:22am | IP Logged
[QUOTE=qwertyesque

There are aspects to this. If I have to work in an office where all the women wear those veils - all of them - that would freak me out... Of course, there are instances where I have seen couple of these arabic women who took the veil off their face and spoke in most intelligent, eloquent, confident English I havent seen many asian talk like that... and yet that veil reflected their adherence to tradition - a mix which absolutely surprised me.. .so it doesnt have to be one or the other... some of these veils hide the ultra-modern mind-sets...which are in fact superior to the average american.....and that fits veri well in that "good america" we refer to...Smile

[/QUOTE]

 

 I agree with you in bold. Some of the persons here  also in bhurka and veil are  both intelligent and modern.



Edited by nitasuni - 16 January 2008 at 9:39am

lighthouse

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lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:33am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Lets take it this way

Walking on a street in Chennai, a couple from say UK is into high intensive PDA, what do people in Chennai say?

Now take a Indian man walking on the streets of Montreal, chewing on his Benaras pan and does his usual thing. Is it ok for the locals to come up to him and say this is not allowed here?

When you move to a foreign country you want to bring your personal heritage touch while adapting to the new culture. That is the beauty of North American culture.

Not come along with your whole shibang of native culture, you would stand out like a sore thumb, if you stand out like a sore thumb, people are going to take notice, some are going to take offense, some are going to ridicule(and then you are going to complain racism LOL ).

The bottom line(and not for lipservice only)

When in Rome, Do as Romans do without appearing like monkeys which most of them do when they try doing like americans do. Veri few really can do as the americans do elegantly without having to change themselves drastically... LOL

I am talking about adaptation you are talking about imitationWink

 In America , reverse is true. Adaptation is usually by the citizens not immigrants.  Both east and west coast has its own culture , so does the South . Chinatown, little Italy, Latin neighborhoods have been around in major cities for decades,  Miami , NYC, LA , Texas all are very different from what one might think is America. Infact I am not sure one can define America as a singular culture, which is why Sopranos is as popular as Sex in the city was.   

sareg

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sareg

Joined: 10 January 2006

Posts: 3976

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Lets take it this way

Walking on a street in Chennai, a couple from say UK is into high intensive PDA, what do people in Chennai say?

Now take a Indian man walking on the streets of Montreal, chewing on his Benaras pan and does his usual thing. Is it ok for the locals to come up to him and say this is not allowed here?

When you move to a foreign country you want to bring your personal heritage touch while adapting to the new culture. That is the beauty of North American culture.

Not come along with your whole shibang of native culture, you would stand out like a sore thumb, if you stand out like a sore thumb, people are going to take notice, some are going to take offense, some are going to ridicule(and then you are going to complain racism LOL ).

The bottom line(and not for lipservice only)

When in Rome, Do as Romans do without appearing like monkeys which most of them do when they try doing like americans do. Veri few really can do as the americans do elegantly without having to change themselves drastically... LOL

I am talking about adaptation you are talking about imitationWink

you cant adapt without imitating

hmmm, are you sure you know what you are saying here? adaptation means you change your mode of behaviour, keep the basics in tact but still change enough to suite the new system, imitation is blind copying

... Dhona chod key pochna shuru karna may be adaptation or imitation.. the question is how much you are into using that paper at home...Smile.. Imitation is with appearance and behavior and I am not talking about that.....unless you give me some good examples of adaptation

culture means everything behaviour, language, religion, rituals, norms of law/morality

now when I talked about adaptation,does one need to embrace the beleif and value system, NO, but one needs to adapt.

I am not going to get into viel and burkha thing b'cos there is an extra-sensitivity around that here at IF(see adaptingWink)

 

qwertyesque

IF-Rockerz

qwertyesque

Joined: 03 December 2006

Posts: 5953

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 10:10am | IP Logged
Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Lets take it this way

Walking on a street in Chennai, a couple from say UK is into high intensive PDA, what do people in Chennai say?

Now take a Indian man walking on the streets of Montreal, chewing on his Benaras pan and does his usual thing. Is it ok for the locals to come up to him and say this is not allowed here?

When you move to a foreign country you want to bring your personal heritage touch while adapting to the new culture. That is the beauty of North American culture.

Not come along with your whole shibang of native culture, you would stand out like a sore thumb, if you stand out like a sore thumb, people are going to take notice, some are going to take offense, some are going to ridicule(and then you are going to complain racism LOL ).

The bottom line(and not for lipservice only)

When in Rome, Do as Romans do without appearing like monkeys which most of them do when they try doing like americans do. Veri few really can do as the americans do elegantly without having to change themselves drastically... LOL

I am talking about adaptation you are talking about imitationWink

you cant adapt without imitating

hmmm, are you sure you know what you are saying here? adaptation means you change your mode of behaviour, keep the basics in tact but still change enough to suite the new system, imitation is blind copying... ya ya imitation is blind copy.. adaptation is just a thoughtful copy - a copy nonetheless....Smile... Its memorising the their idioms...etc.. One of my experiences is about this "wassup?" One fine morning i met Richard in the coffee room and I ended up asking him " Hey Dick Whats up? and i just froze... but he didnt get that.. so it was ok"...LOLLOL.. (ok before people start thinking i am calling names.. Dick is a christian nick for Richard like Robert is bob, william is bill etc)

... Dhona chod key pochna shuru karna may be adaptation or imitation.. the question is how much you are into using that paper at home...Smile.. Imitation is with appearance and behavior and I am not talking about that.....unless you give me some good examples of adaptation

culture means everything behaviour, language, religion, rituals, norms of law/morality ok .. if you think about each of these there is a mix of imitation and tolerance.. and tolerance is enforced by law.. so doesnt really matter if you want to "adapt" anyway...

now when I talked about adaptation,does one need to embrace the beleif and value system, NO, but one needs to adapt.Embrace and how do we do that.?. tacit compliance is in my opinion acceptance...What u saying is  Tolerance is adaptation then according to you - so if a gal shows more than 5 inches of cleavage you dont scream immoral!!!!!!LOL.. You glance enjoy and adapt...LOL what u might think adaptation is already enforced by law so dont have that as an option...

I am not going to get into viel and burkha thing b'cos there is an extra-sensitivity around that here at IF(see adaptingWink)...

 



Edited by qwertyesque - 16 January 2008 at 10:45am

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20679

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 10:46am | IP Logged

Originally posted by rockstallion

@hades - I am afraid you are not quite acquainted with the arab or middleeast culture, Its not just wearing veils and running away from men.  Mingling of men and women , mixed gatherings is not their culture, so its fine if they want to work in a burkha , make some money and walk home, i dont see, what is a big culture segregation deal there!

I think most people are misunderstanding my intent here. While the opening post of this topic is specifies the instance of a western person questions why Sikhs Middle Eastern etc. do not leave their habits behind. However, the subject line of the topic says 'Preservation of Culture'. Culture is not just about what a person wears or a person dressing less or more. Culture involves a lot more including language, history, traditions, moral values, cuisine, clothing etc.

Sevral cultures have migrated to the west over all these years. It used to said that cities like New York etc. were melting pots. However, the fact is that it is not a melting pot. Every group that migrates huddles around itself, forming a colony of their homeland in a new country. They work in companies, their kids go to school and college but when it comes to socialization and lifestyle they are cut off from the rest.

I guess for a lot of people that is simply normal and perfectly fine. Perhaps there is absolutely no need to socialize or mingle with other people. However, personally I find it quite disconcerting. Instead of neighborhoods there are just houses who do not even know who their neighbors are. I have seen Indian families tell their kids not to make kids with the western kids. In larger cities the black part of town is for the black people, the Asian sector is for Asians only, Hispanic sector is for hispanics several times leading to gang formations battling with each other keeping each others out of territory. To me the formation of these unmixing clusters is not healthy. It is not about what one wears or does not it is about human interaction.  I have seen Indian families tell their kids not to make kids with the western kids.

Originally posted by rockstallion

@most goriyaan walking on times square to work,  dont they quite mind their own businesses as well!!! so is it just for a mere 'hi' 'hello' which burkha ladies don't sport, they get labeled as culture stickers. ? ?!

Thats NYC everyone moves without caring about the next person.

Originally posted by rockstallion

and hey , where are you, @bold. nobody is refusing to socialise. Shocked

Oh several people. As I had said earlier there are parents who say do not socialize with western kids. I once met an Hispanic couple who said that they pretended to not know English despite knowing it quite well because they did not want to interact with Americans. Many make excuses to avoid dinner invitations, attend their functions etc. Not all but a significant amount of people do so. Personally, I find such behavior quite anti-social and unbecoming.

Originally posted by rockstallion

and different people doing things deifferently makes their culture different , i dont see, how it will be called culture, if we share it Wink 

and sharing would mean.......

is ki topi us ke sar, us ka skirt .........LOL (we again got to the start of debate)

Who said sharing a culture means you have to give up what you do and do as the other person does. That is not what sharing cultures is. Sharing a culture is an enriching and informational experience.

When you travel you can simply visit all the tourist destinations or you can interact with the locals, take part in local festivals and customs, throw yourself in a whole new culture and get a completely different travel experience. You truly understand what makes that country unique, you can identify it's culture and realize what truly defines the people. Even Christmas takes on a unique flavor in every region it is celebrated in. This is what doing as the Romans do is all about, you do not have to change your culture upside down. You simply open up and participate in ways you can.

It is inviting another person into your world and taking a glance into your world. It gives people and understanding on why people do things, what is the significance of some actions and customs. If people were more open about sharing culture westerners would understand how Middle Eastern culture works and why they cannot leave behind somethings. Middle Eastern people would understand eye contact and face to face interaction has so much emphasis in western culture. A good open minded exchange can prevent misunderstandings and harsh feelings, and sometimes a balance can be reached.  There are so many little nuances we can understand to improve communication.

Ultimately it is a matter of time. Historically cultural evolution is inevitable. Old cultures give way to new blended cultures, either by force or by exchange. I would rather be part of a world where people gradually evolve of their own accord and exchange rather than force. However, if cultures remain stubborn keeping to their own shells force is inevitable.

 

sareg

IF-Dazzler

sareg

Joined: 10 January 2006

Posts: 3976

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 11:59am | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Lets take it this way

Walking on a street in Chennai, a couple from say UK is into high intensive PDA, what do people in Chennai say?

Now take a Indian man walking on the streets of Montreal, chewing on his Benaras pan and does his usual thing. Is it ok for the locals to come up to him and say this is not allowed here?

When you move to a foreign country you want to bring your personal heritage touch while adapting to the new culture. That is the beauty of North American culture.

Not come along with your whole shibang of native culture, you would stand out like a sore thumb, if you stand out like a sore thumb, people are going to take notice, some are going to take offense, some are going to ridicule(and then you are going to complain racism LOL ).

The bottom line(and not for lipservice only)

When in Rome, Do as Romans do without appearing like monkeys which most of them do when they try doing like americans do. Veri few really can do as the americans do elegantly without having to change themselves drastically... LOL

I am talking about adaptation you are talking about imitationWink

you cant adapt without imitating

hmmm, are you sure you know what you are saying here? adaptation means you change your mode of behaviour, keep the basics in tact but still change enough to suite the new system, imitation is blind copying... ya ya imitation is blind copy.. adaptation is just a thoughtful copy - a copy nonetheless....Smile... Its memorising the their idioms...etc.. One of my experiences is about this "wassup?" One fine morning i met Richard in the coffee room and I ended up asking him " Hey Dick Whats up? and i just froze... but he didnt get that.. so it was ok"...LOLLOL.. (ok before people start thinking i am calling names.. Dick is a christian nick for Richard like Robert is bob, william is bill etc)

Ok let us stay with this example, were you saying "Hey Dick, what's up?" b'cos you were imitating other people? and just saying b'cos others are saying or was it b'cos you were genuinely saying it. If one is Genuinely saying it you just say it and you are looking forward to a conversation or planning to walk away. If you are imitating yes you are always conscious about what you are doing. See the difference between adaptation and imitationWink

... Dhona chod key pochna shuru karna may be adaptation or imitation.. the question is how much you are into using that paper at home...Smile.. Imitation is with appearance and behavior and I am not talking about that.....unless you give me some good examples of adaptation

culture means everything behaviour, language, religion, rituals, norms of law/morality ok .. if you think about each of these there is a mix of imitation and tolerance.. and tolerance is enforced by law.. so doesnt really matter if you want to "adapt" anyway...

staying with your example of greeting others, I still havent seen a law to that effect

now when I talked about adaptation,does one need to embrace the beleif and value system, NO, but one needs to adapt.Embrace and how do we do that.?. tacit compliance is in my opinion acceptance...What u saying is  Tolerance is adaptation then according to you - so if a gal shows more than 5 inches of cleavage you dont scream immoral!!!!!!LOL.. You glance enjoy and adapt...LOL what u might think adaptation is already enforced by law so dont have that as an option.

ok since we are in clothing

When you are on a beach in Virginia, you wear a short b'cos the weather is of that type and it is a norm, if you wear a suit, nobody is going to stop you

Reverse, if you are walking in a shorts in say Talewada, the reaction might include "eh Pandu ala re" or "eh gotya doun cup chaha ane re"

hopefully that clears the confusion between imitation and adaptationLOL

I am not going to get into viel and burkha thing b'cos there is an extra-sensitivity around that here at IF(see adaptingWink)...

 

sareg

IF-Dazzler

sareg

Joined: 10 January 2006

Posts: 3976

Posted: 16 January 2008 at 12:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by sareg

Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by sareg

Lets take it this way

Walking on a street in Chennai, a couple from say UK is into high intensive PDA, what do people in Chennai say?

Now take a Indian man walking on the streets of Montreal, chewing on his Benaras pan and does his usual thing. Is it ok for the locals to come up to him and say this is not allowed here?

When you move to a foreign country you want to bring your personal heritage touch while adapting to the new culture. That is the beauty of North American culture.

Not come along with your whole shibang of native culture, you would stand out like a sore thumb, if you stand out like a sore thumb, people are going to take notice, some are going to take offense, some are going to ridicule(and then you are going to complain racism LOL ).

The bottom line(and not for lipservice only)

When in Rome, Do as Romans do without appearing like monkeys which most of them do when they try doing like americans do. Veri few really can do as the americans do elegantly without having to change themselves drastically... LOL

I am talking about adaptation you are talking about imitationWink

 In America , reverse is true. Adaptation is usually by the citizens not immigrants.  Both east and west coast has its own culture , so does the South . Chinatown, little Italy, Latin neighborhoods have been around in major cities for decades,  Miami , NYC, LA , Texas all are very different from what one might think is America. Infact I am not sure one can define America as a singular culture, which is why Sopranos is as popular as Sex in the city was.   

see when you want to enter a homogenous society everyone has to adapt, the local citizens as well as the immigrants. The immigrants consider it beneath themselves to adapt but have no explaination why they want to retain something they so wanted to get away from in the first placeLOL

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