Discussion_Indian serials & Indian values

This is pushing the envelope a bit but I thought I should provoke some debate. I believe folks like Caryn agree that one of the reasons why serials perpetuate the oppression of women and other sins is that Indian society itself has not kept pace with the changing world, so perhaps we should discuss just what are those cultural values that hold back Indian society.

I'd say one such value is the notion of the sanctity of marriage. Nothing wrong with that notion; marriage is a sacred institution. Except that traditional Indian society often never allowed freedom of choice in marriage -- or in most other matters. Traditional Indian society frowns on any form of individual gratification and elevates respect for one's parents to a value greater than even religious piety. (I use the present tense as a large swathe of Indian society is still traditional in its values). Traditional Indian society puts a premium on family honour and enjoins communal consensus. Marriage is often a family decision and has nothing to do with how the individuals in question -- bride and groom -- feel about one another. This is why our poor Madhan of Anandham could not stand up to RK and profess his love for Rohini but instead found himself forced into a loveless arranged marriage with Abhirami. Hence, his continued affair with Rohini. (Of course, his re-marriage to Rohini has now soured because of his MCP ways but that is another matter; Indian society doesn't have a monopoly on male chauvinism. And, as I always keep saying, Indian women have had a significant role in conditioning their sons into thinking they were born to be waited upon by women. Anyway, the issue of male chauvinism has been adequately addressed in a separate thread.)

I am not condoning the practice of "second wives" that many of you claim the serials (unwittingly) glorify. But perhaps we need to understand why the phenomenon has arisen. It may not always be due to lechery and disrespect for first wives. (Incidentally, this institution of the second wife seems to be a socially accepted one, judging by the fact that Tamilnadu chief ministers themselves have practised it. And, I am told that it's not always the first wife who suffers in such polygamous marriages; it's often the second wife who suffers in silence.)

Forced marriages may be one reason why men seek gratification outside marriage, as mentioned earlier. A second reason could be that Indian marriages tend to be all about responsibility, and love is a rare ingredient. This again brings me back to traditional Indian values. Indians are taught not to seek individual gratification. Indians consequently aren't demonstrative with their love, even within families. Women in particular are conditioned into viewing marriage as nothing more than a social transaction and sex as purely instrumental, a means to having babies. One perpetual complaint of Indian men is that their wives lose interest in sex after the children arrive.

I can almost hear some of our readers groaning that love is a sublime feeling and has nothing to do with sex. Sex, the physical binding of two bodies, may not be sufficient to sustain a marriage but it is a necessary condition for marriage. And when that physical bond frays, love gradually becomes nothing more than just an obligation to support one another. The magic disappears.

OK, I know I generalize. Many philandering husbands conveniently claim their marriages are lacking in genuine love.

But all said and done, traditional Indian values may be the reason why a sizeable number of marriages fail and men turn monsters.

One final point, and that relates to divorce. The rupture of marriage is no small matter, especially considering the impact it almost always has on children. But loveless marriages are often just as detrimental to children's emotional well-being as is divorce. Quarrelling parents, cold wars between parents, all take their toll on children. And, the psychological scars that loveless marriages leave on husbands and wives themselves can often be deep and damaging indeed. Often, an amicable end to marriage may be healthier than loveless marriages. Unfortunately, Indian society still frowns upon divorce. Hence, many people remain consumed by loveless marriages and seek affairs. I guess this explains the chain of unfortunate events in the life of the Kasthuri character. If only Ram had been allowed to admit that he had made a grievous error in saying yes to marrying an uneducated and appearance-challenged Kasthuri (by looking at the wrong photo) and been free to divorce Kasthuri, he may not have turned into a monster.

To sum up, some of the values that need to be debated are: (i) the emphasis on communitarianism at the expense of the individual, (ii) narrow conceptions of what marriage entails, and (iii) the stigma associated with divorce. Let the values debate begin but let me stress that I am purely making social and psychological observations and not prescribing any form of behaviour or values.

cheers
Bonheur.


Edited by Bonheur - 16 years ago

Awesome stat as lways, Bon.

The great ACD meets Jamuna openly in public places. Which engaged cop do you see do it more often? It does not mean if you are a cop and married you have the license to go meet women openly however good your intentions are. Is this what Priya is in for after wedding? If it werre the other way round, Priya the cop and the great ACD just her lover and she kept meeting men witnesses/cops in public places in a suspicious manner what would he have done? Given that she returned the same wierd explanations that he gives her? Why do there have to be so many trials and tribulations in ACD's love story?In anyone's for that matter.
At least in Rohini's case she has a strong boss who advices her well. Rohini is a pretty strong woman too, and takes her decisions well. She's got good killer instinct and affections. There is light at the end of the tunnel for her, she's been promised a transfer. If and when that happens she can make up with Madan if she pleases.
The one with the best sense of humor on the show is Kandu. But they hardly show him and his marraige effort lately.
As for divorce, you can look at SKPD's and Charu's marraige being dragged over the years. Charu has good reasons, but does not go through with it. Somehow in all the stories, there is no trust in the way the law operates and the characters are always going around the law.

Hey.. this is an interesting topic!

I'm not sure if what you've summarized is just what the serials are about, but if I may add - in terms of your points with relevance to the society:

4) besides just the stigma associated with divorce, there's something more critical - that the divorced pair hence become single parents and the fear that it is a much harder task to raise the children, singly.

Jenim, you are absolutely right about the other factors that affect divorce apart from that of social stigma. Many women of little means and little education usually hesitate to seek divorce because they cannot raise children singly. And, often would not get any family support for divorce or for raising children. And divorce settlements -- where the husband* is ordered to pay maintenance -- are not always honoured. Women would need to go through the painful (and expensive) process of dragging men back to court for defaulting on maintenance payments.

* I assume the economic scales are still tipped in men's favour by and large.

Ok bon. Let get some expert opinions on what constitutes a good reason for divorce. Lets take some practical situations on suntv.
a) Does the woman's career in Anandahm, Rohini v. Madhan, where Rohini chooses career over Madhan constitute a good reason for divorce?
Same serial, can mrs. arjun cite hubby's being a prime suspect in a murder case as a cause?
b) Diwa v. Shakti: where she refuses to have the child. Does that give him a good reason for divorce?
In the same show, Kanmani citing constant physical abuse, can she move a court?
c)Laxmi: Laxmi knows her hubby to be unfaithful. She does not sue for divorce.
Nethra: She is forcefully married without her consent. Is that sufficient grounds for a divorce?
Arvind's mrs. knows that he's commited 4 murders, still has his child. Still enough grounds for divorce?
d)Kolangal: Usha has been told by thols that he is a cheat and a murderer. She already has a child. Enough grounds?
Karpagam knows that her husband has gone and married the 2nd time. She'll get good alimony now that he's rich. Good enough?
e)Arasi: Arasi and KK have been living enough years apart. Enough reason?
Selvi's husband runs into the law, and is spoiling all the children. Way overdue.
Udhaay goes after another woman even after his wife Selvarani is pregnant. Does she have sufficient cause?
Kalai abused constantly, and horribly by Kanna. And he loses their child. Boy too many in this serial.
f) The most logical, sure case: Kasturi. She has been downright exploited by her husband. This is worse than any form of slavery.

Can keep going on and on. Yet it never happens. That is an oldfashioned way of living. Do men have unlimited leverage? Except in Usha's case, and Usha is a total dummy, all the other cases the women have solid reasons. Can the men just continue walking over the doormats the rest of their lives?

Good points for discussion, Jagdu. There are ample grounds in most of the above cases for divorce. I am sure one doesn't need a court of law to provide expert opinion. But it's those age-old prejudices (values) that stand in the way of divorce and that's what the serials are showing up. Am pretty sure the situation is magnified several fold in real life in India.

Very interesting posts...

each of the serials put the indian values in a bad limelight...but
unfortunately this happens in real life...

womans are made like a doormates for their husbands, and divorce is a
big tabu in our society. Cause a woman cant live independent, be a single
mom etc

People who are most affected are those with less education, poor
ones..they are very behind cause of the social responsibility. it is woman
who pay a big price, girls are married off before getting proper education.
Even educated and working girls are forced to odd marriages on the name
of family prestige, so no choice to make here or who they are going to
get married too also

-I happend to see a serial called for vasantha, the hubby want to divorce
his wife cause she got a better job than him and refuse to compromise
😡

-Kasturi has been treated as a doormate by that Ramu, but still, she
refuse to get remarried...

- Santi was a widower and with a kid, so her in laws refused to accept her
in the beginning.

Among the serials, I have seen 2 major objections to divorce. One is, what will people think on both sides for the family. We don't want to hurt the pride of the family.
This is nonsense, because the people in the marraige are suffering.
The other is, the person who suggests the break up is asked, will you be responsible then, directly or indirectly.
Sometimes it works out for the best. The couple still manages to stay friends without commitments.

As much as these serials show oppression of women, the few serials that show a stronger women only depict them as villis...like Abirami in Anandam or Nethra in Lakshmi. If women are not heroines....and if they are strong then they are villis, all others are just
jalras who succumb to men and his pressures.

But i should say as much as todays women are changing, men are also changing...but you are right the society in which we live in does not let the men do justice and of course i blame both men and women for this shameful supremacy.

Example
My cousin brother here in US dotes on his wife, cooks, cleans, changes diapers......perfect husband. But when he went to india this time he did none of the above...the first day he attempted to do,'
his mom i.e my aunt was like ...."aiyo why are you doing all these" with a scornful look at my anni. I was so mad when my brother didnt speak a word and cooly left the place. What happened finally was my anni ended up doing everything, since she didnt want to burden my aunt. The anti-MCP person i was...i raised an issue out of this and my anni kept asking me to stop the conversation fearing her own security. What to say she is a PHD and a professor in a college and my brother is a Senior manager in a company....high levels of education but low levels of thought. I blamed my anni as well there...she should have put her foot down there and said that all is 50/50 ...nothing comes free.

And today, Divorce is no longer an ugly word. It's happening all around us. Rising expectations, coupled with diminishing tolerance levels, are taking their toll, even in the middle-class milieu of "conservative" towns and cities.Everyone wants a "perfect" relationship and "ideal" marriage,
but they want it on their own terms.The modern mantra seems to be that if a relationship is not working it is better to sever it, split up, rather than endure and make efforts to patch up.

I do not know what it is like to be in an arranged marriage but I know that all marriages are in a sense arranged -- by relatives, by the rain, by smiles and secret dances;
by children whose arrival can no longer be postponed, by the intersection of ripening desires, by thirsty hope meeting cool water.
So you ask an American what to do. To do what an American would do would be disastrous, I fear. The American shucks off his wedding tux and walks to the next town to set up a new gambling operation in a new hotel. No one asks him where he came from there. No one cares. Can we do that! no way!

Married people fight. Fights are scary. But they are also revealing. If you find yourself in physical danger, that should be grounds for divorce. If you find yourself being treated cruelly, or abandoned, those also should be grounds.
But simply encountering, in a fight, the ugly side of the man you married -- that, I fear, is the universal discovery at the heart of marriage: Most men are flawed; they have an ugly side. Women probably do too. Within limits, this is intimacy.
In such cases i think the couple will have to go into isolation and avoid all other opinions outside of them and make a decision purely based on true feelings. But that isolation and decision making is totally denied in our society...i guess thats someting we need to work on!

Very interesting discussion and topic my friend. From reading all of the postings and replies. I am going to be honest from both a woman's point of view.

Like Madhu said I quote, "As much as these serials show oppression of women, the few serials that show a stronger women only depict them as villis..." I certainly agree with her 100%. Since, this aspect still runs today in reality.

Many womans especially in Asia are treated like doormats especially with people who has a lower quality of life and living. As well, a poor educational background.

Saracastically speaking, to a surprise it happens too young educated girls as well. Why dont woman dont begin to get up on their two feet and stand up for their self? Well, the answer they all give is I love my husband etc... Rubbish!!!!!!! It's not called real love I recall its abuse, violence, depression and mental torture you young beautiful girls are facing.

Sadly, this happens in UK. Where many young innocent and beautiful girls will fall to their young charming man they fanstase yet they dont realise how much trouble this lead to. Then, they have too many babies and cry their heart out and scream like they have lost their love and care and perfection. From, fight, abuse and mental torture. Finally, you hear stories the father arguing hes not the father of the baby and etc... Then a spilt up of the couple through misunderstanding and lack of trust.

When a marriage is consumed between opposite or same gender, I personally agree it must be consumed through a agreement of whilling to stay together. I mean through their ups and downs and every step of life until death. However, they agree first but sadly, after few years down, the word divorce comes through the couple. They say due to differences over petite things. Disgraceful why, dont these couples begin a trustworthy and understanding   bond between them? Cos, they are so foolish that they trust third people around them they should be able to snoop up the information between them.

Like Caryn said, I agree with the concept of sex and love. But, the word sex doesnt mean to lose your virginity at such a young age because people tell you to do so. In fact, sex is a relationship which builds up furher trust to the couple.
Infact according to a show i watch they produce a hormone called ostrogen (something like that) that binds the couple together and giving more trust.   

I will add more hopefully later on 😃