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lighthouse

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lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 18 December 2007 at 9:46pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by qwertyesque

Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by raj5000

Thanks EveryOne for responses!!

Originally posted by return_to_hades


If any of us make a mistake in our jobs no matter how serious it is,worst case scenario is we maybe fired. We will still be treated like ordinary people and not criminals. While doctors and nurses should take a high amount of care to avoid mistakes they work in a high stress environment and should be cut some slack. 

Hear yaa @ old RTH. tfs

 Most of us don't have jobs with life and death issue. Forget jobs or profession- If you get into an auto accident while driving and hit a car or pedestrian in the front and they die, you can be tried as a criminal. Loss of a life is very serious and hence medical professionals are required to go thru lengthy training process. 

Thats right.. for any crime to be established an intent needs to be established...other every mistake is measured against its appropriateness... whether its a doctor or anyone else....take for eg...pilots etc... their mistakes take about 200 people to heaven unlike a doctor who can send one at a time.. The reason doctors profession attracts attention is because they are closed. Nobody knows what they are doing.. its impossible to probe and murder when a doctor commits it... which is why they are said to have license to kill....Smile

  LOL LOL @ doctors comment.   Doctors never have their own life on the line when they commit a mistake and end up living with the consequences and in some cases end up making same mistakes over and over. I think the doctor who operated on Sridevi's mother made similar mistake more then once.

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Vinzy

IF-Stunnerz

Vinzy

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Posted: 18 December 2007 at 10:47pm | IP Logged
Practice Practice Practice.... Confused when DR's Complete their practice then they can reduce Mistake.... Big smile Wink

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20237

Posted: 19 December 2007 at 12:09am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by raj5000

Thanks EveryOne for responses!!

Originally posted by return_to_hades


If any of us make a mistake in our jobs no matter how serious it is,worst case scenario is we maybe fired. We will still be treated like ordinary people and not criminals. While doctors and nurses should take a high amount of care to avoid mistakes they work in a high stress environment and should be cut some slack. 

Hear yaa @ old RTH. tfs

 Most of us don't have jobs with life and death issue. Forget jobs or profession- If you get into an auto accident while driving and hit a car or pedestrian in the front and they die, you can be tried as a criminal. Loss of a life is very serious and hence medical professionals are required to go thru lengthy training process. 

I think we are lucky to have jobs with no life or death issues. So many ordinary people can slack of, be lazy, screw up and still have no problems. I am not condoning mistakes by doctors or nurses. There definitely should be severe consequences for mistakes.

However, I feel that it is a high tension work environment and no human is infallible or perfect. The most microscopic errors can cause fatalities. As humans they should be cut some slack once in a while.

Even a person who accidentally runs over and kilss pedestrian gets consideration - were they drunk or sober? were they speeding or normal? did they violate a traffic light or rule? was the pedestrian drunk or sober? was the pedestrian jaywalking? what were the road conditions when the accident happened? Based on the situation the person can be charged from something as minor as reckless endangerment misdemeanor to the max of involuntary or criminally negligent manslaughter.

Doctor's should also have the right to get fair judgment. What is their track record? How often have they made mistakes? Was their mistake due to gross malpractice or human error? I really do not have a problem with doctors facing charges, but I hate witchhunts against doctors, slapping murder charges in place of negligent manslaughter due to the high profile of the profession and emotiveness of judge and jury, tort lawyers taking advantage of cases to make millions in civil suits.

If some doctors conduct dirty dealings, its because the law conducts dirty dealings too - the end loss is always the common man.

lighthouse

IF-Dazzler

lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 19 December 2007 at 10:41am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by lighthouse

 Most of us don't have jobs with life and death issue. Forget jobs or profession- If you get into an auto accident while driving and hit a car or pedestrian in the front and they die, you can be tried as a criminal. Loss of a life is very serious and hence medical professionals are required to go thru lengthy training process. 

I think we are lucky to have jobs with no life or death issues. So many ordinary people can slack of, be lazy, screw up and still have no problems. I am not condoning mistakes by doctors or nurses. There definitely should be severe consequences for mistakes.

However, I feel that it is a high tension work environment and no human is infallible or perfect. The most microscopic errors can cause fatalities. As humans they should be cut some slack once in a while.

 Most fatal medical errors are not made in ER.... despite of it being highly pressured and demanding environment. Ok there may be a case of  heart attack patient dying, but that is mostly due to lack of prompt care and treatment when ER waiting rooms are filled to capacity.  

 Fatal medical error cases are more frequently reported during elective or pre-planned surgery or medical treatment. Eg. Kanya west' s mother dying after plastic surgery, or wrong limb amputated on someone etc. or incorrect medicine or higher doses given by nurses. These are stupid mistakes or negligences imo. No one wants to take the initiative to double check anything, doctors think their time is too valuble and rely on nurses/ adminstrative staff.

 We don't hear about so many mistakes being made by pilots, captions or train/bus drivers because they care to be cautiuos as their lives are on the line. Car drivers on the other hand can be reckless due to external influences of intoxication, road rage or simply believing they are going to walk away from the accident unless they hit something head on.  



Edited by lighthouse - 19 December 2007 at 10:41am

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

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Posts: 20237

Posted: 19 December 2007 at 11:11am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lighthouse

Originally posted by return_to_hades

Originally posted by lighthouse

 Most of us don't have jobs with life and death issue. Forget jobs or profession- If you get into an auto accident while driving and hit a car or pedestrian in the front and they die, you can be tried as a criminal. Loss of a life is very serious and hence medical professionals are required to go thru lengthy training process. 

I think we are lucky to have jobs with no life or death issues. So many ordinary people can slack of, be lazy, screw up and still have no problems. I am not condoning mistakes by doctors or nurses. There definitely should be severe consequences for mistakes.

However, I feel that it is a high tension work environment and no human is infallible or perfect. The most microscopic errors can cause fatalities. As humans they should be cut some slack once in a while.

 Most fatal medical errors are not made in ER.... despite of it being highly pressured and demanding environment. Ok there may be a case of  heart attack patient dying, but that is mostly due to lack of prompt care and treatment when ER waiting rooms are filled to capacity.  

 Fatal medical error cases are more frequently reported during elective or pre-planned surgery or medical treatment. Eg. Kanya west' s mother dying after plastic surgery, or wrong limb amputated on someone etc. or incorrect medicine or higher doses given by nurses. These are stupid mistakes or negligences imo. No one wants to take the initiative to double check anything, doctors think their time is too valuble and rely on nurses/ adminstrative staff.

 We don't hear about so many mistakes being made by pilots, captions or train/bus drivers because they care to be cautiuos as their lives are on the line. Car drivers on the other hand can be reckless due to external influences of intoxication, road rage or simply believing they are going to walk away from the accident unless they hit something head on.  



I have never stated that doctors should not be held accountable. What I want to state is that doctors and nurses deserve to a fair judgment. In the local nurses example I stated, she was not a reckless callous nurse, she had 16 years of exemplary service, she made one fatal mistake and was abused as a criminal. The victims family used a high profile law firm to milk millions from the hospital in civil damages. Just because we have a few doctor's who are reckless, incompetent and uncaring does not mean we can judge everyone in the profession as uncaring, incompetent and reckless. We should not let biases against doctors cloud giving them a fair charge and investigation.

lighthouse

IF-Dazzler

lighthouse

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 2842

Posted: 19 December 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by return_to_hades


I have never stated that doctors should not be held accountable. What I want to state is that doctors and nurses deserve to a fair judgment. In the local nurses example I stated, she was not a reckless callous nurse, she had 16 years of exemplary service, she made one fatal mistake and was abused as a criminal. The victims family used a high profile law firm to milk millions from the hospital in civil damages. Just because we have a few doctor's who are reckless, incompetent and uncaring does not mean we can judge everyone in the profession as uncaring, incompetent and reckless. We should not let biases against doctors cloud giving them a fair charge and investigation.

 True. Agree on giving medical professionals fair trial and the malpractice lawyers do take care of that as they are the ones coughing up millions in awards.

 I don't see much difference in the nurses example you cited and a driver with perfect driving record for 15 years, hits someone accidently, resulting in death of the person.. except that the nurse was getting paid for her services which implies a much bigger responsibility on her training and expertise. Patients have implicit trust on medical professionals to not make simple mistakes such as reading names of medicine or doses incorrectly. More often then not, fatal medical errors are not errors of professional judgement but mere negligence of safe procedures. It is always the same doctor or same hospital/facility where such fatal cases are reported to have occured.

raj5000

Moderator

raj5000

Joined: 01 January 2006

Posts: 11720

Posted: 20 December 2007 at 8:30pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by Believe

Practice Practice Practice.... Confused when DR's Complete their practice then they can reduce Mistake.... Big smile Wink

LOL Now I know why Doctering is called doing Practise then doing a job!!LOLLOL

~globetrotter~

Groupbie

~globetrotter~

Joined: 31 December 2006

Posts: 165

Posted: 21 December 2007 at 6:41pm | IP Logged
I think it's a tad bit unrealistic to expect doctors to NEVER ever make a mistake simply because they're holding people's lives at stake. NOBODY is immune to making mistakes, not even doctors...and in as much as they may have attended the best medical schools around, and worked for the longest time, they are just as likely to make a mistake as anyone else. It's unrealistic to expect them to never make a mistake and place them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect and flawless at all times. Not even the best doctor makes a correct diagnosis every single time. There will be moments when the doctor simply has to use trial and error to treat a patient or times when the doctor is not absolutely positive that a certain procedure will work for a patient but would rather try the procedure knowing it might be detrimental to the patient than do nothing at all. Even the best doctors slip up and have their moments of stupidity (mistakes or negligence..whichever, whatever)...what differentiates a good doctor from a bad one is the frequency with which those errors occur. There's a difference btwn a good doctor who's having a bad day and made his first mistake in six months and a doctor makes a mistake day after day.

And no...would I agree to participating in a clinical drug trial? ...absolutely not...because I'm a big chicken that way. But I do think it's an incredibly selfless thing to do, and I respect people who go through it because they believe in it.

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