Religion : A political view - Page 4

Originally posted by: Ritika2025

P.s. if you find any resemblance between the story and something real, it is not purely co incidental...
Take history and you will see a lot of religions evolved in this manner

Care to give atleast one example??

Originally posted by: souro

Care to give atleast one example??

Actually I dont, wont pinpoint any one religion...My views on that might hurt someone's sentiments...
Because this isnt the manner it wud be presented in the scriptures...
And also the fact that I , being an atheist, will be able to present it in a thoroughly objective and inpersonal manner...

I am not saying that you will find historical record stating the person thought so Bt isnt it like a logical explanation... And the conditions of country before and after cited by me in the story are definitely not fictional....

It is in modern times that religion and Politics are treated as two different things, Earlier, priests used to be very important ppl in hinduism, The Rajas used to take their advice in many things... Many countries had State chruches where the king was the highest authority of church....
And so on.......

However today , In India Religion is often used to gain power and stir ppl's mind...Bt They exist as two seperate entities which coexist  and need each other 
 

Edited by Ritika2025 - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: souro

Care to give atleast one example??

I will refrain from naming religions, but here are historic empires, concepts and people. Look them up and read the history.

Byzantine Empire
Charlemagne
Pericles and the "Athenian" Empire
Octavian and the miracle of Actium  + Pax Augusta
Egyptian Empire
Solomon
Mandate of Heaven
Edo Japan

 

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

I will refrain from naming religions, but here are historic empires, concepts and people. Look them up and read the history.

Byzantine Empire
Charlemagne
Pericles and the "Athenian" Empire
Octavian and the miracle of Actium  + Pax Augusta
Egyptian Empire
Solomon
Mandate of Heaven
Edo Japan

Even my first thoughts were about Byzantine. But Christianity started before that, it was only used by Constantine to unify. And ain't it the same for the others too. None of them started the religion, they only used it to unify their empire or wield power. So, how was religion or the person who first preached the religion responsible, it was the particular leader who used or misused it.

Edited by souro - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: souro

Even my first thoughts were about Byzantine. But Christianity started before that, it was only used by Constantine to unify. And ain't it the same for the others too. None of them started the religion, they only used it to unify their empire or wield power. So, how was religion or the person who first preached the religion responsible, it was the particular leader who used or misused it.

The Key words to me are "a lot of religions evolved in this manner".

"The Early Church" by Henry Chadwick provides a good exploration of the development of the church and the role it played in European politics.

When Constantine ascended the throne of the Roman Empire, Christianity was not an organized religion. In many aspects Christianity as we know it today did not exist at all. The followers of Jesus Christ although growing in numbers were still considered to be a sub sect of Judaism.

The Roman Empire was in a volatile state. The teachings of Christ was spreading and the Diocletian persecutions had just stopped. The Eastern Empire was still seething from the effects of the tetrarchy. Constantine knew that the Roman Empire could not find stability unless Romans made peace and accepted the Christian sect. At the same time Rome itself was hugely pagan and it could not afford to distance the pagans.

The Edict of Milan first accepted and legalized Christianity as a formal religion. The Council of Nicaea then transformed Christianity into the "organized" religion under the Roman Catholic church. The Nicene creed resolved the duality of father and son, considering father and son of same substance under Catholicism. (This caused the schism between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox as the Orthodox church believes in duality.) Easter was separated from the Jewish Passover and coincided with the pagan fertility festivals of spring. A minimum term was set for Baptism and the hierarchy of the church was established. The most important aspect was the tie between Roman Empire and the Church and the law was tied to the law of the church.

I do not think Ritika2025 wants to place the blame on religion or the propagator of religion. When man tries to organize religion faith is compromised with that man's agenda. Faith and Religion have existed since the dawn of time, human race has placed faith in something or the other, when that faith is organized under a structure things get political and less religious. While Christianity may have started under noble concepts, it's growth and development was merely to excercise control over a divided Empire. In this case Constantine would be the man who saw an Empire divided and used God to manage the crisis. Constantine himself remained a pagan sun worshipper until his deathbed. His church had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics.

Originally posted by: souro

Even my first thoughts were about Byzantine. But Christianity started before that, it was only used by Constantine to unify. And ain't it the same for the others too. None of them started the religion, they only used it to unify their empire or wield power. So, how was religion or the person who first preached the religion responsible, it was the particular leader who used or misused it.

Founding a religion and organising it are two different Things😊 

Thanks for the detailed Example RTH...I couldnt have worded it so beautifully Myself 😊

Edited by Ritika2025 - 16 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

The Key words to me are "a lot of religions evolved in this manner".

"The Early Church" by Henry Chadwick provides a good exploration of the development of the church and the role it played in European politics.

When Constantine ascended the throne of the Roman Empire, Christianity was not an organized religion. In many aspects Christianity as we know it today did not exist at all. The followers of Jesus Christ although growing in numbers were still considered to be a sub sect of Judaism.

The Roman Empire was in a volatile state. The teachings of Christ was spreading and the Diocletian persecutions had just stopped. The Eastern Empire was still seething from the effects of the tetrarchy. Constantine knew that the Roman Empire could not find stability unless Romans made peace and accepted the Christian sect. At the same time Rome itself was hugely pagan and it could not afford to distance the pagans.

The Edict of Milan first accepted and legalized Christianity as a formal religion. The Council of Nicaea then transformed Christianity into the "organized" religion under the Roman Catholic church. The Nicene creed resolved the duality of father and son, considering father and son of same substance under Catholicism. (This caused the schism between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox as the Orthodox church believes in duality.) Easter was separated from the Jewish Passover and coincided with the pagan fertility festivals of spring. A minimum term was set for Baptism and the hierarchy of the church was established. The most important aspect was the tie between Roman Empire and the Church and the law was tied to the law of the church.

I do not think Ritika2025 wants to place the blame on religion or the propagator of religion. When man tries to organize religion faith is compromised with that man's agenda. Faith and Religion have existed since the dawn of time, human race has placed faith in something or the other, when that faith is organized under a structure things get political and less religious. While Christianity may have started under noble concepts, it's growth and development was merely to excercise control over a divided Empire. In this case Constantine would be the man who saw an Empire divided and used God to manage the crisis. Constantine himself remained a pagan sun worshipper until his deathbed. His church had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics.

Very well written and I agree with you. The only thing that I fail to agree on, as far as MD's post is concerned, is organised religion is same as politics. Afterall the emperors and empires are long gone but the religion remained, which means religion must have something more to offer to the common people than the empire and it's politics. And I feel it's the fundamental teachings and philosophies of a religion which makes people stick to it more than to politics.

Who can for get the United States of Canada and Jesusland maps that swarmed the internet. They call it democracy now but the principle is still the same. The way I see it religion is not politics, but organized religion can easily lose itself to politics till there is no distinction.

Originally posted by: souro

Very well written and I agree with you. The only thing that I fail to agree on, as far as MD's post is concerned, is organised religion is same as politics. Afterall the emperors and empires are long gone but the religion remained, which means religion must have something more to offer to the common people than the empire and it's politics. And I feel it's the fundamental teachings and philosophies of a religion which makes people stick to it more than to politics.

I agree on bold black... politics is subset of religion, anyday!