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what if snape had lived....? (Page 2)

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lucky_lakshmi

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lucky_lakshmi

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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 9:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatterbox

hmm nice ans all  3 of u

yes i guess nothing wud hv changed but makes me wonder one thing though

dumbledore asks snape to tell harry abt him being horcrux though he dint say the word horcrux he only told part of voldy soul lives in harry and when voldy keeps nagini with him that time the truth shud be told to harry

but when snape is dying why did he gave the full memory to harry abot how he loved his mother or why dumbledore trusted him and so on

he cud hv only given him the memory of what dumbledore said isnt it

snape was trying to get away from voldy to let harry know the truth and he was goin to reveal to him that part only

thats why i wonder if things cud hv changed between harry andsnape

harry had forgiven snape finally and yes its possible that harry had lost all the ppl who loved or cared for him so snape cudnt hv been his surrogate dad in that sense

though i wud hv loved it if snape cud hv changed his stance and compromised with harry



arre yaar, u are abt to die..it may happen any instance..are u really gonna have the patience to really choose what u are gonna do..he did what he cud do at that tim..he didnt really have time to choose his m\emories in all...sume of his memmories flowed outta his ears eyes n all and he gave it to him only hoping that he hadnt failed that last one thing DD had told him to...he didnt really have a choice at that time..nor did he have the time to contemplete on which memory to give him n all...when he saw Harrty, his eyes Widened in surprise n he did what he cud do in the lil time he had left...thats it..

But Snape being Harry's surrogate Dad is just too awkward..I wud say one of the best potrayed and etched Characters in HP series in Snape...that wud be just a Charcatre assassination!LOL


Edited by lucky_lakshmi - 12 December 2007 at 10:10pm

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lucky_lakshmi

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lucky_lakshmi

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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 10:01pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatterbox

haila LL seems u answerd the same time i was writing my own ans
what u said LL is right
i guess partly that answers my questions too

tellme cud he have still given harry his full memory if he had been alive or bcoz he was dying and nothing cud be done he said all in his memories and ppl dint know why dumbledore trusted snape

jkr gave the readers ans to this question thru snape memories as dumbledore was dead and he had given snape word that he wud never reveal his true self

what do u say


Quoting Snape "I lied for you, Spied for u, Put myself in Mortal danger for u..."
This man was kind of master in pretence and telling lies...Mark my word, if he had a choice, if had lived and not wasnt at the terrible posiion he was in when HE gave Harry the memories, he wud never have told Harry he loved Lily..he doesnt have to give the reason DD trusted him..what matters is that he was on the right side, he was decieving vOldy and was DD's man thru n thru..no oine is gonna ask him "why did Dumbledore trust u??" and nor is he compelled to give an answer..he is an indifferent man...
DD kept his word..he never gave away Sanpe's true intentions behind his valour..

chatterbox

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chatterbox

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Posted: 12 December 2007 at 11:08pm | IP Logged
yes LL i agree with u
when snape was dying he thought of telling all the memories
if he was alive he wud hv given that bit only which dumbledore told him to
but then harry may not have believed him i guess
i was trying to look at different angle to know if snape lived wud things have been different
and despite what u all say something cud hv been different i guess as snape was on same side as harry and dumbledore

in killing snape finally jkr revealed the secret of his loyalty to dumbledore otherwise this wud not have come out at all

*Jane*

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*Jane*

Joined: 25 October 2004

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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 1:46am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

Originally posted by *Jane*



So had Snape lived, the extent of his and Harry's relationship would've been of comrades on the same side of the war against Voldermort and nothing more, IMHO.


well said but As I said earlier..do u really think Snape wud have told Harry abt his love for Lily if he had had another option..he had given harry his memories coz he was helpless at that time..he was dying , he cudnt at all speak and there was no way but tell him what shud be done thru his memories...
but even then, I wud think that even if Harry didnt know abt his love for Lily, he wud have respected Snape ore from then on...though I doubt if there will be any change in Snape's feelings to Harry(N he cant be blames coz he had some reasons whch were too rooted into his mind...) N he isnt ever forgiving as a DD Na?!LOL


Chances are he wouldn't have revealed his connection with Lily, had he lived. However, the memories he would give Harry to show that Dumbledore indeed trusted him and that it was Dumbledore himself who asked for his own death by Snapes hand would raise quite a few questions as to why that is; which, I think, is also something all of us have wondered while reading the books. What is it that compelled Dumbledore to trust Snape so much? Perhaps Snape's death was JK's way of keeping the book from being larger then the average dictionary. *shrugs* Much faster way of answering this question.
Because you know, Harry, being the nosy individual that he is, would've eventually found out sooner or later, one way or another.

Though, that would've probably been a nicer epilogue then what we were bestowed with and we would've had a live Snape who would continue to terrorize future bright eyed, longing to learn firsties and most other students residing. *sighs* if only…


*Jane*

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*Jane*

Joined: 25 October 2004

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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 2:15am | IP Logged
Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

I respect ur views Jane but it does seem the both of us have few contrasting Ideas...
Voldemort was right in one point that u mentioned..."He desired her..."
but desire doesnt necessarily mean it was an Obsession...If anyone was obsessed with anything in HP--That is Voldy Mouldy who was obsesed with himself...

There are various forms of love. Snape's love for Lily was much more …intense then what one would normally have. I'm not saying he didn't love her, I'm just saying that obsession would probably be a better term to describe  Snape's feelings for Lily

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

Snape on the other Hand, didnt fall in madly obsessed with Lily...He was kinda madly in love..
why I say this is coz...Obsession doesnt have the perseverance, Purity and strength of true Love..Obsession is Imapatient, is selfish, is kind of a insanity...

My sentiments, exactly.
His obsession may not have been as "insane" as some peoples (after all obsession comes in many forms) but he was willing to have Harry die in exchange for Lily's life. IMO that's not something one does for the person one loves. It's something someone does out of obsession. Love (pure love, not the obsessive kind) is not asking to kill the child to spare the mother.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

Snape was not insane..he was as sane or perhaps more than all the other HP characters

Well, maybe not insane, per say - but, IMO, he was pretty …creepy for a lack of a better word. This was, though, only after I read the memories. When he was crying over Lily's letter and ripping photos to keep her pic, I wanted to slap him and say "Snap out of it. She has been dead for like forever. Get over it! You're a smart bloke. Dive back into the pool. You'll find someone"

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

N If he obsessed Lily, then he wud have gona mad at her going off with that SICK Potter, he wud have hated everything abt er..

Not necessarily. He may have hated her for marrying James, we don't know. Obsession (like love or any other emotion) isn't something you can just turn off. Love is something, where one should (and will) be willing to give everything for. Snape doesn't, he didn't plan to.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

Bcoz Obsession is merely a progressed stage of Infatuation…

Of course it is. Pure/normal/true love is also an elevated stage of infatuation and it can go both ways.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

I believe Snape's feeling for Lily was very well interpreted By Harry thru the memories...Which is why the beginning part(The childhood part) of their relation is very important...Snape in his youth, never had anyone to love..he so conspicuously lacked the air of being loved and cared for..

Exactly, that's why the first person who cared even a teensy bit is the one he leeched on to.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

and it was at that time that he first saw Lily..Haila "Love at first sight"..It wasnt love at first sight but something in her must have attracted him..

Of course, her magic is what attracted him. She probably was the only other person in the entire town that could do magic other then him. Something like bonding over common interests, abilities etc…

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

fine..But after that , they became FRIENDS..BEST FRIENDS...N Recall Lily's question abt his Family n all..for the first time, Severus had actually found someone who cares for him...who seemed to LIKE HIM...N that surprise welcome feeling was embraced wholeheartedly by him and he preogressed thru the path of loving her...N even after she abandoned him (for all the right reasons, in all fairness to Lily), He continued loving and Caring for her...He didnt start kinda hating her for leaving him, for going with James..he still loved her--he didnt get surly though he hated James and I dun see why he shudnt hate him…

We don't know what he felt when he found out about James. He may have gotten surly, he may have broken a few vases, he might have gone to both Lily and James (wouldn't surprise me if they gave him a restriction order) with intent to kill James and kidnap Lily… He might have done a lot of things. We don't know. Again obsession isn't something you can turn on or off. One can hate someone all they want, doesn't stop them from wanting them.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

One may call it kinda "MAD LOVE" Coz DD says when Snape asks him to Protect Lily that "You dont care what happens to her husband and child as long as u have what u wish"--

Exactly, as I mentioned earlier this is not "pure" love. You don't take away the things, specially the people, that matter to them for ones own selfish reasons. Mad love is obsession.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

Not the exact line but more or less I think I got the meaning right...so He indeed 'desired' her even then...But after her death..there stops his "Desire"...N there surfaces the true love that was in his heart for her...and I guess to a large extend, his feeling of personal responsibility for her death, made his position no easier…

IMO his need to look after Harry was more out of guilt and loyalty to Lily then because he "loved" her. Plus, It's not healthy to pine over someone that long. When one starts rummaging though peoples bedrooms to find small scraps of paper with sentimentalities written (to someone else) from a person who's been dead for one and a half decade does make it an obsession.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

n then, he lived only to protect the son of the woman whom he loved with all his heart (the only woman he loved in fact), the only person who showed concern and friendship for him when he lacked it all very much...the woman who died to preotect her son...Snape loved her so much that he didnt want her to die in vain..

He was willing to sacrifice the very child she wanted to protect. Again one doesn't do that to people they love. Snape's love for Lily went beyond what one would call true/normal/pure love. Obsession doesn't necessarily need to be something one acts on. Obsession of something consumes a persons mind, body and soul. If the very meaning of Snape's entire life was Lily, it's probably safe to assume that she consumed his very being thus making his love/desire/want for her an obsession. 

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

I believ his love was he reason Voldemort never was able to rea;l;y interpret his true allegiance..coz among the things Voldemort doenst understand are Love, selflessness and friendship among many others...I suspect Snape's love gave him the strength to close his mind to the entire world…

Love has nothing to do with it. Harry has got more love to offer but he's horrid at occlumency. It's all in the mind and how desperately one wanted to protect those thoughts swirling on the surface. Knowing the reaction his master would have, if said master found out about his change in alliance, is more then enough reason to ward off any incriminating memories successfully.

Originally posted by lucky_lakshmi

PS: Agree 1000001% with u abt Snape not beign a "sentimental kindof Guy!"

LOL that's a large percentage.


Edited by *Jane* - 13 December 2007 at 2:27am

chatterbox

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chatterbox

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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 2:35am | IP Logged
wow jane u got an amazing theory of ur own

wonderful way to put it

i agree with u also and with LL too

but if u see the whole story it was becoz snape heard half the prophecy and told voldy

so in a way he was also responsible for potter's death

no wonder harry went mad when he found that out in book 6th
but snape still continued to protect harry becoz of guilt i guess rather than love

i also found it weird goin into someone bedroom and tearing up that bit
but i guess thats one kind of love where u dont let go of the person u love and u hold on to the memories

still i wud say if snape had lived there cud hv been something different not totally but something different yes

but by killing snape jkr finished the era which began with power egos and jealousy and all that

snape wud hv died any way
finally i still feel snape had a powerful character in the entire series

more than harry or voldy or dumbledore

what u say

lucky_lakshmi

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lucky_lakshmi

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Posts: 10594

Posted: 13 December 2007 at 2:38am | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatterbox

yes LL i agree with u
when snape was dying he thought of telling all the memories
if he was alive he wud hv given that bit only which dumbledore told him to
but then harry may not have believed him i guess
i was trying to look at different angle to know if snape lived wud things have been different
and despite what u all say something cud hv been different i guess as snape was on same side as harry and dumbledore

in killing snape finally jkr revealed the secret of his loyalty to dumbledore otherwise this wud not have come out at all


oh no..Harry will believe him..all he has to do is say "Expecto Patronum"..The Silver Doe will prove it...Wink
yeah Snape had to die...i had expected that..but wsh he had a bit more say in his death..it was pathetic for such a character like Snape--so brave and courageous..he died terribly!CryCry

as Jane sad..Snape and Harry were on the same side..Harry wud have acknowledged that..thats all..n Harry wud have really started respecting him and uynderstanding him..But as far as Snape is concerned...I doubt if here will be any change in his attitude..say lets just think that Harry understood the truth and Snape didnt die..Then as far as I have understood Snape's character..he just will ignore this fact that Harry knows and will not acknowledge him..he will remain as Indifferent as ever..this makes Snape such a unique Creation actually...Wink


Edited by lucky_lakshmi - 13 December 2007 at 2:40am

lucky_lakshmi

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lucky_lakshmi

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Posted: 13 December 2007 at 2:42am | IP Logged
Originally posted by *Jane*


Because you know, Harry, being the nosy individual that he is, would've eventually found out sooner or later, one way or another.



Hem Hem! I remember I was going thru sum HP site..N u know one discussion was abt JK Rowling's revelation that Dumbledore is Gay...and one person who was discussing the topic was saying "Had Harry been told sumthing like this in the book..he woudl have begun a quest to find the truth!"Wink

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