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Debate Contest : Round 1! (Page 4)

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Posted: 29 August 2007 at 8:19am | IP Logged
Originally posted by jasunap

the question to be discussed here is about dan brown as a author of fictions. if his work came into controversies it is because religious groups decided that they could not accept his work, which has used religion and its stories as a background. that does not mean he has plagarised or copied even from anybody. the controversy that dan brouwn's book created, had everybody from the church to the common man, of all ages wanting to read it. it aroused a curiousity in people....

most of the book has Langdon just stating plain facts, which ofcourse, have been twisted and turned a bit to suit Dan Brown's needs.

jk rowling, fantastic writer that she is...has chosen to write books for children. though i agree adults also have read her books, magic, sorcery and all the other gimmicks she uses in her books are basically for children...and the need for them to know that good will win over evil...no matter how strong it seems at first. there is no scope what soever to interpret what you read into any other meaning...

And what meaning does Dan Brown make of it, himself? He himself has written happy endings.

However, JKR scores much above Dan in many departments. The magic of her books is in the fact that her books have grown up as her main lead protagonists have. This is a unique phenomenon, never been seen in any book series so far. Most books are clubbed into children's and adults.

 However, JKR's books cannot be so easily put into either children's or adult's and which other author has ever written such a series which flummoxes people about its "rating" ?? However, I defy you to call the HP series as children's books.

There's just too many complexities in the plot and in the characters to call them so. Indeed, the last 3 books have been so dark...

Magic and sorcery you say? It would seem like kids to you, but her real emphasis has always been in the human nature...one of the main challenges in her books have been the fight within yourself, between the good and the darker aspects of your character.

Choices...and how people change (for the worse or for the better) because of them has always been a main theme throughout the series.

Indeed...she has weaved in the many facets of adult interaction in her books with a frank reality. She has portrayed the tragic cataclysm of events which enfold...from the sexual abuse of a 6 year old child. And she has dealt with it in a most sensible way..and has reflected how it affects the people surrounding these incidents...how one crime leads to a chain of them.

She has also portrayed a war, brutal in it execution and devastating in its consequences. She has shown the warped sense of thinking, which a man is enforced to employ in such difficult times. How a man can be caught between his beliefs and his loved ones...how people more often than not, choose the latter.

Is this to be understood by a child? Can you write this off as "children's"???

Does Dan Brown ever show such struggles in character? His characterization, is, exceedingly clean cut. He never attempts to depart from the normal 'white' and 'black'. And when he does try, it ends up being so extraordinary and unrealistic that it is hardly believable(Camerlengo in A&D, anyone?)


Edited by xMarauderx - 29 August 2007 at 8:23am
missy6892 Goldie
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Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:17am | IP Logged
[QUOTE=diyafah]

Thanx Missy for pointing out few issues!=D

My Plesure Big smile

First of all on the religion:You said that writers make religion as a subject of imagination to boost their sales and lucrative profit!Basically make money through religion!

Lol, if that was not true then all the bibles in the world would be free!! LOL

Allright if that true why did some chrisitans support Dan?Can you give any evidence for that?Do u call them as Anti Chiristains who are against the religion! Can't the critics just rip the book of thinking its a fake book and fake books should not be encouraged. Whenever anything comes to religion,no one can support the false reasons

If those are you views on the topic then why are discouraging Harry Potter in your statements to come for being a "fake" book based aroung lies??

Now coming back to the debate for JK..Though she's my another Fav writer,but a debate is a debate!She created a magical book?Does magic actually exsist?

No Magic does not exist, but something does not have to exist to use your imagination to create a world of your own. Sure, JKR could have played it safe and could have used the same exact concept and made it into an everyday, in this world story, but she didnt, she took the risk and created a magical world different and unique to any we have read in any of the fiction books today adn I respect her for that.. Do tell me..ah..friendship,truth and courage is not everything! Friendship, truth and courage some of the themes of the book, but that is not all the book is focused on. Harry Potter deals with many of the hardships of life, war, loss, revenge, growing up... If you want a more ensightfull explaination, read the post by xMaraudersx, which is above this one.   Something which does'nt exsist then why should we believe it! No one is making you believe it or is stating that JKR's work is real and should be worshipped. It is a fictional book, and i do not ever recall the author herself ever stating that Harry Potter is a real life character and that the concept of magic is real. Harry Potter not a religion it is a work of imagination and fiction.  Some parents even accused that their children are dipping down the novel and trying to get the magical stuff.. They are desperate to learn magic to the core? What more do you expect from children? Do tell me that you never imagined your self being a wizard, witch, princess etc. when you were younger? That is what children do, and this is not at all a bad thing because it encourages your child to think of the possibilities, to be creative and to use their imagination. It builds character and stimulates the mind, and dont tell me that this isa bad thing. Would you rather have a child that does not think for them selves, lives their lives listening to other people and following and beliving in what they are told?? Now wht has JK Created then? As I have said numerous time before.. She has created a FICTIONAL, creative and imaginative book, and as far as i know there is no sin and evil in doing do.

 

missy6892 Goldie
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Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:19am | IP Logged

Originally posted by xMarauderx

Originally posted by jasunap

the question to be discussed here is about dan brown as a author of fictions. if his work came into controversies it is because religious groups decided that they could not accept his work, which has used religion and its stories as a background. that does not mean he has plagarised or copied even from anybody. the controversy that dan brouwn's book created, had everybody from the church to the common man, of all ages wanting to read it. it aroused a curiousity in people....

most of the book has Langdon just stating plain facts, which ofcourse, have been twisted and turned a bit to suit Dan Brown's needs.

jk rowling, fantastic writer that she is...has chosen to write books for children. though i agree adults also have read her books, magic, sorcery and all the other gimmicks she uses in her books are basically for children...and the need for them to know that good will win over evil...no matter how strong it seems at first. there is no scope what soever to interpret what you read into any other meaning...

And what meaning does Dan Brown make of it, himself? He himself has written happy endings.

However, JKR scores much above Dan in many departments. The magic of her books is in the fact that her books have grown up as her main lead protagonists have. This is a unique phenomenon, never been seen in any book series so far. Most books are clubbed into children's and adults.

 However, JKR's books cannot be so easily put into either children's or adult's and which other author has ever written such a series which flummoxes people about its "rating" ?? However, I defy you to call the HP series as children's books.

There's just too many complexities in the plot and in the characters to call them so. Indeed, the last 3 books have been so dark...

Magic and sorcery you say? It would seem like kids to you, but her real emphasis has always been in the human nature...one of the main challenges in her books have been the fight within yourself, between the good and the darker aspects of your character.

Choices...and how people change (for the worse or for the better) because of them has always been a main theme throughout the series.

Indeed...she has weaved in the many facets of adult interaction in her books with a frank reality. She has portrayed the tragic cataclysm of events which enfold...from the sexual abuse of a 6 year old child. And she has dealt with it in a most sensible way..and has reflected how it affects the people surrounding these incidents...how one crime leads to a chain of them.

She has also portrayed a war, brutal in it execution and devastating in its consequences. She has shown the warped sense of thinking, which a man is enforced to employ in such difficult times. How a man can be caught between his beliefs and his loved ones...how people more often than not, choose the latter.

Is this to be understood by a child? Can you write this off as "children's"???

Does Dan Brown ever show such struggles in character? His characterization, is, exceedingly clean cut. He never attempts to depart from the normal 'white' and 'black'. And when he does try, it ends up being so extraordinary and unrealistic that it is hardly believable(Camerlengo in A&D, anyone?)

ClapClap That was outstanding ClapClap You have done our team justise!!

missy6892 Goldie
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Posted: 30 August 2007 at 1:39am | IP Logged
Here is another issue courtesy xMarauderx and myself, thought i would add it incase time ran out before the deadline:

There's an issue about Dan Brown.
If you look at his novels, all have the same set up and there're so many parallels between each of them.

I've read Da Vinci and Angels and Demons. And both the books start with a horrific murder, have someone authority figures..Fache and Ollivetti
Then the heroine's are the ones whose loved ones are murdered. And they're pretty amazing and perfect and what not.
There's someone who's like a thug...just used as a dangerous weapon..the Hassasin and that albino bloke in Da Vinci...Silas, I think.

Then, there's the "shocking" person who turns out to be a villain....

Even the point of climax is almost the same...the big muscle man ends up dying...
And the action is pretty insane and totally un-realistic. Langdon survived a drop from a high flying helicopter with the help of a cloth?


Another issue is that many would claim that "Angels and Demons" was a far better book then "The Da Vinci Code", yet it did not do as well as "The Da Vinci Code" because it didn't make any outrageous claims about Jesus. Again this relates back to the claims of Dan using religion as a way to earn money.
jasunap IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 30 August 2007 at 2:52am | IP Logged
Originally posted by xMarauderx

Originally posted by jasunap

the question to be discussed here is about dan brown as a author of fictions. if his work came into controversies it is because religious groups decided that they could not accept his work, which has used religion and its stories as a background. that does not mean he has plagarised or copied even from anybody. the controversy that dan brouwn's book created, had everybody from the church to the common man, of all ages wanting to read it. it aroused a curiousity in people....

most of the book has Langdon just stating plain facts, which ofcourse, have been twisted and turned a bit to suit Dan Brown's needs.

unless plain facts are twisted...the tale does not become a fiction and therefore twisting of facts is necessary when turning a fact to fiction!!!

jk rowling, fantastic writer that she is...has chosen to write books for children. though i agree adults also have read her books, magic, sorcery and all the other gimmicks she uses in her books are basically for children...and the need for them to know that good will win over evil...no matter how strong it seems at first. there is no scope what soever to interpret what you read into any other meaning...

And what meaning does Dan Brown make of it, himself? He himself has written happy endings.

The moot point here is not whether a book has an happy ending or a sad one.  the question is whether evil triumphs or does good!

However, JKR scores much above Dan in many departments. The magic of her books is in the fact that her books have grown up as her main lead protagonists have. This is a unique phenomenon, never been seen in any book series so far. Most books are clubbed into children's and adults.

i beg to differ here...there are many authors whose protogonists have aged with the sequels.  john jakes is one such writer...you may have heard of the serial north and south starring george scott and patrick swayze....that spans generations where the protagonists age from being college mates to grandfathers!!!  and not in the same book. they grow in each of continuing saga!!! so that is nothing new or unique about that!!

 However, JKR's books cannot be so easily put into either children's or adult's and which other author has ever written such a series which flummoxes people about its "rating" ?? However, I defy you to call the HP series as children's books.

Whether you like it or not...HP books are still put under the children's section in all libraries....or under the teen section...which falls under the children's section....does not matter who is flummoxed!!!

There's just too many complexities in the plot and in the characters to call them so. Indeed, the last 3 books have been so dark...

any novel worth its substance should be complex...in relationships, in thoughts and ideas as well...the writer will keep in mind that the more complex the thoughts and ideologies are, the more copies it will sell...so what is special about the complexities in HP series???

Magic and sorcery you say? It would seem like kids to you, but her real emphasis has always been in the human nature...one of the main challenges in her books have been the fight within yourself, between the good and the darker aspects of your character.

Choices...and how people change (for the worse or for the better) because of them has always been a main theme throughout the series.

my point indeed...the truimph of good over evil...something every child needs to learn as a part of their growing up....and what better way to teach than with stories weaved in the intricasies of magic and good and evil????

Indeed...she has weaved in the many facets of adult interaction in her books with a frank reality. She has portrayed the tragic cataclysm of events which enfold...from the sexual abuse of a 6 year old child. And she has dealt with it in a most sensible way..and has reflected how it affects the people surrounding these incidents...how one crime leads to a chain of them.

She has also portrayed a war, brutal in it execution and devastating in its consequences. She has shown the warped sense of thinking, which a man is enforced to employ in such difficult times. How a man can be caught between his beliefs and his loved ones...how people more often than not, choose the latter.

Is this to be understood by a child? Can you write this off as "children's"???

when one says child...one means children of ages upto 20/21 yrs.  and these are all relevant for children...explained nicely, written to be understood. woven in myriad of colours, and magic,making the reader awestruck letting them understand in their imagination that evil can be triumped if you are determined enough...

Does Dan Brown ever show such struggles in character? His characterization, is, exceedingly clean cut. He never attempts to depart from the normal 'white' and 'black'. And when he does try, it ends up being so extraordinary and unrealistic that it is hardly believable(Camerlengo in A&D, anyone?)

and what is wrong with making your character black or white?  and sticking to that??? there is no lesson to be taught, none to be learnt!!! it is just a work of fiction..no sermon...no teaching...read it for its intrinsic value.  learn a bit about history and mythology and you pursue if you interest lies there... but at the end of the day...it is a work of fiction
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:57pm | IP Logged
The time is up and we have heard all ur debates. Its 1st September (Atleast here it is.. LOL ) and the thread is going to be closed. The judges results will be out soon.

Best of luck everyone

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