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The Colour or The Blood....???? (Page 3)

IdeaQueen IF-Dazzler
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Posted: 22 July 2007 at 9:25am | IP Logged

Originally posted by chatbuster


there's an underlying question here that i think has been ignored. there's also an undercurrent across different threads, and hopefully i can take a stab at it without offending anyone.

i am actually surprised as to how we are equating bashing terrorists with bashing islam. why do we assume that we are bashing islam when we say that almost all terrorists are muslims? if simply saying that terrorism today has its roots in muslim countries is bashing islam, then i wonder what terrorists are doing to islam when they actually perpretrate their menace. isnt the indignation misplaced?

next, why do we think we are bashing muslims when we suggest that we do have to be especially vigilant when it comes to muslim neighborhoods or countries, given how the terror elements have come from there? what would you do if you found violence emanating from certain quarters? dont countries arm themselves up to defend against others, even though we all know that not everyone in the other country is a war-mongerer? would you rely on platitudes as to how not everyone is a bad apple, or would you try to proactively root out such elements, at times maybe even infringing on personal liberties and sensitivities? fwiw, it's fine to make nice speeches, but you'll get a different perspective on things when you lose someone you idolized and loved dearly because of the other side.

then why do we think we are bashing muslims and pakistanis when some of us think that musharraf, particularly pre-9/11, was a double-speaking double-dealing fellow? well, wasnt he? wasn't he the one who plotted kargil in the midst of all the wonderful bonhomie, who went to agra and declared that JK terrorism was home grown, that there were no pak army regulars? wasnt he the one who also said that terrorism is a legitimate struggle for self-determination? well, didnt he find out since that terrorism is not considered legitimate by the world at large? given what folks have had to endure, could you understand some of the satisfaction one gets to see him having to deal with similar elements now? how is any of this bashing islam? meanwhile, maybe we do get the idea now as to why some of us want to be careful about dealing with folks from the other side. never know who might be a musharraf-types.

yes, i think it would be bashing islam if we brought up underlying philosophies and principles of any religion and deliberated on whether some of them lead to violence, and pronounced them bad.

meanwhile, what are non-muslims to make of all this? should they worry whenever a muslim cleric, supposedly someone who understands his religion better than us, makes a fiery statement inciting violence against infidels in the name of religion? or should we ignore him on the grounds that islam is a peaceful religion as some others want us to know? let me know what you would do if you were on the opposite side, where you found people willing to kill and blow themselves up as long as they could take you along? it's fine to say that non-muslims dont know the meaning of jihad, but how about first letting those terrorists know that they got it wrong? or even the clerics who incite them?

seriously, what would you do if you faced the same peril in your society? and what have you actually done if not come down hard on them? didnt we have musharraf sending the army into a mosque to root out terrorists? would there have been similar understanding if an indira gandhi or an indian politician had ordered that force on a mosque? raiding a mosque is not bashing islam, but calling terrorists for what they are is somehow bashing islam?

Nice postClap

IdeaQueen IF-Dazzler
IdeaQueen
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Posted: 22 July 2007 at 9:40am | IP Logged
Originally posted by kahish-rox

Hey pplll!!! i am new hea in the debate mansion....i have read many debates taking place here....so i decided to bring up a very crucial topic that is aalways on my mind to discuss with u ppl...btw my name is kiran....

The topic under discussion is : the colour of our skins or the blood in our veins??? what i mean to tawk abt is the social degradation that we all have to face...around the world....

recently i read a thread here named something like HOW SHOULD INDIA HANDLE PAKISTAN??? and i was SHOCKED!!!  i have been here on If for more than 2 years and never have i seen such an open outburst of hatred and sarcasm shown towards Pakistan...not because its my own ounbtry...many Pakistanis did wrong too....but to tawk abt eachother in such a rude and offensive manner is absolutely unbearable...

so lets discuss....we ppl have the same skin olour...all over the world...whether it is europe or america....we are referred to as BLOODY ASIANS....Pakistanis, Indians...and we very easily let them make fun of our culture and religion....so plz telll me......what is it that they dun like abt us...

 

Us being Asians....us being not as fair as them...(the colour of our skins) or us being Muslims n Hindus....(the blood in our veins)...and lets discuss here as well...i wanna knw...what do u ppl not like abt us...US BEING PAKISTANIS OR MUSLIMS????

look i respect everyone's religion....and i dun think anyone has the rite to say anything abt anyone's religion until and unless they knw anything abt it....can u judge a person's personality without meeting him??? will u make an impression of a person just by hearing rumors and not actually knowing that person...similarly...how can u just sya stuff abt our religion Islam widout knowing anything abt it...and neither can we say anyhing abt hinduism until we get to knw wat it is....

 

Religion in my opinion, is every person's personal matter.....so we shud not stooop so low and degrade the other person on the basis of his religion or his identity...this a vast and serious topic and i wanna knw ur ppl's comments....thanks a lot...lurve kiran

First of all Kiran WELCOME TO DEBATE MANSION!! I forgot everything seeing the name KIRANEmbarrassed!!!!

Nice post! No one in DM or IF is against the people of Pakistan! If at all there are differences ,they are against the policies of the Adminstration of PAK! I think in DM we criticise in a matured manner all the issues related to almost all the nations! This is the beauty of DM! Several times we even criticise the policies of Nehru,Indira Gandhi and even Sonia Gandhi! This does not mean that we donot respect them!!These things are part of a debating process! Similarly,we had good discussions on the policies of George Bush!!

We are not here in DM just to discuss the beauty of the tomb ,THE TAJMAHAL or the curves of Bipasha or the number of crush of Salman Khan!!!!

But onething for sure,we SHOULD"NT degrade other people ,their nation and their religion unnecessarily and we SHOULd'nt  generalise the characteristics to the entire nation and entire sect!!!

Cheers,

Mythili Kiran

 



Edited by mythili_Kiran - 22 July 2007 at 9:41am
chatbuster IF-Rockerz
chatbuster
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Posted: 22 July 2007 at 12:09pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by #1EijazFan

I gotta admit, I usually hate reading long posts but this post of yours summed everything up very well!!ClapClap

No-one is saying pakistan is a bad country and we don't like your people. But if majority or all terror attacks in the recent years have been pakistani muslim, it's very hard to avoid.Ouch

I don't want to ramble on but great post again, you've analysed everything perfectly.Smile

lol. thankfully they dont take me much time to write.Smile

and oh, i hate writing the long ones too. but not as much as i hate reading 'em, especially when they are someone elses.TongueLOL

thanks seriouslySmile

mermaid_QT IF-Sizzlerz
mermaid_QT
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Posts: 11613

Posted: 22 July 2007 at 12:34pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by #1EijazFan

I gotta admit, I usually hate reading long posts but this post of yours summed everything up very well!!ClapClap

No-one is saying pakistan is a bad country and we don't like your people. But if majority or all terror attacks in the recent years have been pakistani muslim, it's very hard to avoid.Ouch

I don't want to ramble on but great post again, you've analysed everything perfectly.Smile

lol. thankfully they dont take me much time to write.Smile

and oh, i hate writing the long ones too. but not as much as i hate reading 'em, especially when they are someone elses.TongueLOL

thanks seriouslySmile


Great post there CB Clap
Gauri_3 IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 12 November 2006
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Posted: 22 July 2007 at 1:11pm | IP Logged
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kahish-rox Goldie
kahish-rox
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Joined: 19 February 2005
Posts: 2173

Posted: 22 July 2007 at 1:45pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by chatbuster


there's an underlying question here that i think has been ignored. there's also an undercurrent across different threads, and hopefully i can take a stab at it without offending anyone.

i am actually surprised as to how we are equating bashing terrorists with bashing islam. why do we assume that we are bashing islam when we say that almost all terrorists are muslims? if simply saying that terrorism today has its roots in muslim countries is bashing islam, then i wonder what terrorists are doing to islam when they actually perpretrate their menace. isnt the indignation misplaced?

next, why do we think we are bashing muslims when we suggest that we do have to be especially vigilant when it comes to muslim neighborhoods or countries, given how the terror elements have come from there? what would you do if you found violence emanating from certain quarters? dont countries arm themselves up to defend against others, even though we all know that not everyone in the other country is a war-mongerer? would you rely on platitudes as to how not everyone is a bad apple, or would you try to proactively root out such elements, at times maybe even infringing on personal liberties and sensitivities? fwiw, it's fine to make nice speeches, but you'll get a different perspective on things when you lose someone you idolized and loved dearly because of the other side.

then why do we think we are bashing muslims and pakistanis when some of us think that musharraf, particularly pre-9/11, was a double-speaking double-dealing fellow? well, wasnt he? wasn't he the one who plotted kargil in the midst of all the wonderful bonhomie, who went to agra and declared that JK terrorism was home grown, that there were no pak army regulars? wasnt he the one who also said that terrorism is a legitimate struggle for self-determination? well, didnt he find out since that terrorism is not considered legitimate by the world at large? given what folks have had to endure, could you understand some of the satisfaction one gets to see him having to deal with similar elements now? how is any of this bashing islam? meanwhile, maybe we do get the idea now as to why some of us want to be careful about dealing with folks from the other side. never know who might be a musharraf-types.

yes, i think it would be bashing islam if we brought up underlying philosophies and principles of any religion and deliberated on whether some of them lead to violence, and pronounced them bad.

meanwhile, what are non-muslims to make of all this? should they worry whenever a muslim cleric, supposedly someone who understands his religion better than us, makes a fiery statement inciting violence against infidels in the name of religion? or should we ignore him on the grounds that islam is a peaceful religion as some others want us to know? let me know what you would do if you were on the opposite side, where you found people willing to kill and blow themselves up as long as they could take you along? it's fine to say that non-muslims dont know the meaning of jihad, but how about first letting those terrorists know that they got it wrong? or even the clerics who incite them?

seriously, what would you do if you faced the same peril in your society? and what have you actually done if not come down hard on them? didnt we have musharraf sending the army into a mosque to root out terrorists? would there have been similar understanding if an indira gandhi or an indian politician had ordered that force on a mosque? raiding a mosque is not bashing islam, but calling terrorists for what they are is somehow bashing islam?

hey....thats exactly waht i have been trying to say...islam in NOT another synonym of terrorism...its totally against it...and i want to use this oppurtuinnty to tell ppl that we shud communicate more so that we get to knw eavhother's religions....and understand them better...secondly....i wundt comment on the musharaaf part cuz i dun actually knw much abt it...ai am not in his favour either...however...what u said abt the clarification of jihad...i wanna say that rite here....jihad is a clause of islam, not the motive of islam...if it hadnt been there, none of the ppl of the world wud object to it.....and yeah bat most of the attacks beinbg in pakistan...taht is definitely bad fate for all of us pakistanis and we hope...youngsters like me who can not do anything rite now...we improve pakistan and make it a better place when we grow up and are sumthing....hopefully...INSHALLAH>....;

and yeah...quoting Rand De basanti here: KOI BHI DESH PERFECT NAHI HOTA...USSE PERFECT BANAYA JATA HAI....

I hope we accomplish that one day!!!!Big smileBig smile

Gauri_3 IF-Sizzlerz

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Posted: 22 July 2007 at 5:24pm | IP Logged
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