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Culture Vs Values (Page 4)

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mermaid_QT

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mermaid_QT

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 2:57pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

haha, we are not debating superiority of family culture/ values over the other values one imbibes over a lifetime. i am just stating my opinion on how it is- that birth circumstances play the more dominant role. whether those values are good or bad is a separate question.Smile

so based on what u wrote, i dont see what u disagree withWink


okay then.  I don't disagree. 
I guess my take on debate topic involved the poster asking what should be superior. family culture / values.

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mermaid_QT

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 2:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

i think education plays an important role at least in terms of expanding our minds and our horizons. but the deep-rooted almost-instinctive responses that one develops for events where no amount of education can help revolves around those personality traits that one forms during childhood. show me a kid and i'll tell u how capable they will likely be to take failure in stride, to be competitive, to be a life-long learner etc... Very hard for even education to change the value structure we form very early on, to learn those traits...


Clap  That is why parenthood is a responsible task..
very well-said CB..

Gauri_3

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 3:26pm | IP Logged
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chatbuster

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:42pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by chatbuster

Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by chatbuster

the way i am reading the debate is values/ culture that one imbibes because of birth circumstances versus those that one imbibes thru other life experiences. in that sense, the birth stuff still rules higher in my estimation. it forms the bed-rock around which there are individual fluctuations.

again, if u look at a slum-dweller, most of them on average have similar values. if u look at the other end of the spectrum,  the very rich would also have similar values, relating mainly to the circumstances of their birth. between the two groups, there'll often be glaring differences- they are in different value oribits. within each group, yes there are variations, sometimes even sharp, but most of the differences between the two groups would still be explained by birth circumstances.

in other words, if u tried to look for factors to explain value differences between people, most significance would be found imo on birth factors. the rest of the differences might even appear random and accordingly nothing that we could generalize from. Smile

anyway, good to see that we've distanced ourselves from other values as being more significantWinkLOL

...and that's why we see caste system so deeply rooted in Indian psyche.  Look at western world and you'll see some of your colleagues who grew up in ghettos but made it thru college...because they learned the value of good education and how it can improve their life along with other good values that help a person succeed in life vs. a person who was born and brought up in a ghetto and remained in that ghetto for the rest of his life.

Values are not inherited...they are learned.

i think it gets to be a pretty silly debate if we lump everything into values, right from birth.

that's what I have been saying all along.  Values are not inherited at birth...they are adapted later thru learning from parents, teachers, friends, colleagues....society in general.

 the more interesting question at least for me is how much of our values are shaped by circumstances relating to our birth......what are circumstances related to our birth.....culture...is that what you mean hereConfused and how much are formed by life experiences later on.

that is a good question.....to an extent, the values a child will have are greatly impacted by the values the parents have....still you can not say that parents' values are part of their culture....because people interpret cultures differently.  Two people in similar culture might have different values and two people from different culture might have similar values. 

again, if u look at a guy who grew up in a family where they love to spit paan all over the place, odds are u'll get the same values in the kid even as an adult.Wink

aren't you confusing "habits" with "values" hereConfused  Spitting paan, drinking water straight from the bottle, chewing your food with your mouth open (Dead) are all habits. 

Not hurting others, always speaking the truth, not cheating on exams, hardworking....these are all good values and that is where you see even siblings differing from each other......leave alone your neighbor who has the same race, religion, cutlture as you.

u'll also notice that two people, when faced with identical circumstances, two kids who have gone to the same school and have had the same teachers, develop very different responses and capabilities. somewhere, their upbringing at home has to be key. even the decision to send the kid to a good school and gain additional values relates to family circumstances and priority.

upbringing as well as individual nature determines how different people react to a similar situation.  Virginia Tech killer's sister is not a mass murderer...she is a Princeton graduate where as parents did not go to school here........same culture....same upbringing for kids......but totally different personalities based on what values each member imbibed....adapted. 

by and large, the greater differences in values between people can then be explained by religious/ family factors. the other stuff is pretty random. that's not to say those differences are not there, but it's hard to pin down on any specific experience since in any case everyone has different responses to similar experiences anyway.

addressed above

culture is core to us; .....the other values we imbibe later on are the external trappings that keep changing over time, based on the latest gyrations in our experiences....and hence they are adapted.  IMO culture changes overtime too.....I gave an example of desi immigrants who try to keep the traditional values but have a modern culture,   a combination of their inherited culture and the culture of the country they came to.  In this case, they are trying to keep the values intact...because the values that are considered good in India are considered good anywhere else in the world too.  Cultures vary across the globe but values don't........telling lies is considered bad everywhere.....but having a matriarchial family is accepted in one culture but outrightly rejected in some other culture.

yes, two kids from the same family also turn out different, sometimes very different. still, if u pick random people even from the same culture, forget even about different cultures, u'll find that their birth circumstances do explain most of the cross-sectional variation in the values they have. on average. yes, in any area, there are always outliers, but those are more exceptions than the rule. it's like this- bad driving leads to more deaths. but does it always? no. still, bad driving does explain a lot of accidents and is a useful principle to work with, no?Smile

given how birth explains most of the values we have, even those that we somehow "learn" from birth, it seems former should be more significant than the values that fall automatically out of that. seems that the values we "learn" are pretty much decided for us from birth.Wink

as for what you have there, sure, culture changes like everything else. but it changes slowly and in the scheme of things, it's fairly constant over our life-time. gotta think relative here. also, values imo encompasses the entire mind-set and does not refer to only one's ethics or morality as u have there. it includes someone's propensity to urinate in public, to spit paan on public property, to take ghoos and all the other good stuff. in short, our values prescribe and impact the way we lead our lives. but like said above, most of these, even the ones we supposedly learn, are decreed right from birth.Smile

chatbuster

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chatbuster

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 5:56pm | IP Logged
in short, if one wants good values that one can pretend to have learned over their life-time, start with a good family, culture, religion. makes all the other value-learning come easier Wink LOL

mermaid_QT

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 6:02pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

in short, if one wants good values that one can pretend to have learned over their life-time, start with a good family, culture, religion. makes all the other value-learning come easier Wink LOL


lol and who do you schmooze up to?  God?? - to put you in a good family at birth to start with? 
wo baat hazam nahee huee @ start with good family.. like a baby resume and family selection process ROFL

chatbuster

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Posted: 08 May 2007 at 6:07pm | IP Logged

Originally posted by mermaid_QT

Originally posted by chatbuster

in short, if one wants good values that one can pretend to have learned over their life-time, start with a good family, culture, religion. makes all the other value-learning come easier Wink LOL


lol and who do you schmooze up to?  God?? - to put you in a good family at birth to start with? 
wo baat hazam nahee huee @ start with good family.. like a baby resume and family selection process ROFL

LOLLOL

it's like this joke on the street. if u want to make ten million bucks, start with a hundredWinkROFL

seriously, just coz there are things we dont exactly control does not make them any less legit.

mermaid_QT

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mermaid_QT

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Posts: 11613

Posted: 08 May 2007 at 6:13pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chatbuster

seriously, just coz there are things we dont exactly control does not make them any less legit.

LOLLOL ofcourse they're not less legitimate,
but its just the action verb *START with good family* made it sound funny to me..
like run 5 miles, get off the damn computer, don't smoke --  start with a good family.. .. LOLLOL

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